Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

[SDHornet]

It was the vitriol surrounding the false narratives that played into the riots. And yes, I agree there were people there legitimately exercising their right to peacefully protest which was mired with others who took advantage of the situation by rioting and looting.

No, drug users aren't less humans, but it's looking like an OD on fentanyl is what killed Floyd so his vice was likely the leading reason for his death. So this will likely get filed under the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" in my book.

I heard there was fentanyl in his system, but that was not the cause of death according to the ME and the additional autopsy.

A small New Mexico town’s journey through COVID reaches a milestone…
Teen saves boy after witnessing ATV crash on TikTok livestream

New documents filed in the George Floyd case give new information about the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's findings in Floyd's autopsy.

Handwritten notes of a law enforcement interview with Dr. Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner, say Floyd had 11 ng/mL of fentanyl in his system.

"If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD. Deaths have been certified with levels of 3," Baker told investigators.

In another new document, Baker said, "That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."

But then Baker added, "I am not saying this killed him."

Defense attorneys for the officers have signaled they will argue Floyd died from the drugs and pre-existing health conditions.

The new documents say Floyd had a "heavy heart" and "at least one artery was approximately 75% blocked."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-c ... r-BB18pb0p

So a fatal dose of fentanyl in his system but it didn't kill him. Ok, run with that one if you want.

Edit: note that the article is half a year old.

[Gil Dobie]

Not that another subject, addiction and how it's viewed. Is a person that used drugs considered less of a human because of that? I know many recovering addicts that are great people.

As I said to 88, the riots and looting were not part of the protest, they were people that took advantage of the protest. The governor even said, if you are out after 8pm during the curfew, you are not a protester, and they arrested over 600 people. Many are still going thru the court process.

Floyd's death lead to protests in a lot of cities and rioting and looting a number of those cities. You can try and BDkkk things to limit the scope but this is about more than just what happened in Minneapolis.

If you want to be a cynic, the protests led to the riots and looting. If you want to be more forgiving but still rational, the protests provided cover for the riots and looting. I don't know what the ctrl-left version of a MAGAt is but that is what you are if you want to say that the riots and looting were justified.

I take issue with the ctrl-left leaders that use Floyd's and other tragic deaths and murders as tinder to start fires of discontent against law enforcement without even acknowledging other issues that take far more black lives. How are they different than Trump and the alt-right leaders who stir people up?

Liberals want to give them a pass because their cause is just while conservatives want to give the MAGAts a pass because their cause is just. The ends do not justify the means and they should all be prosecuted.

I'm not and never have said the rioting and looting was justified. Where did you get that from. You adding and removing context from my post, that are not what I've said. Protest good, rioting and looting bad, is the plain enough. I don't really care what the alt-right or crtl left say in this matter.

Floyd's death is a good reason to protest the inequality in our society.

When I did my own mechanic work on some of my not so trusty cars, I fixed one thing at a time. I couldn't replace an alternator, and change the oil at the same instant. What about the starter, what about the headlight? One thing at a time.

[Gil Dobie]

I heard there was fentanyl in his system, but that was not the cause of death according to the ME and the additional autopsy.

A small New Mexico town’s journey through COVID reaches a milestone…
Teen saves boy after witnessing ATV crash on TikTok livestream

New documents filed in the George Floyd case give new information about the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's findings in Floyd's autopsy.

Handwritten notes of a law enforcement interview with Dr. Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner, say Floyd had 11 ng/mL of fentanyl in his system.

"If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD. Deaths have been certified with levels of 3," Baker told investigators.

In another new document, Baker said, "That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."

But then Baker added, "I am not saying this killed him."

Defense attorneys for the officers have signaled they will argue Floyd died from the drugs and pre-existing health conditions.

The new documents say Floyd had a "heavy heart" and "at least one artery was approximately 75% blocked."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-c ... r-BB18pb0p

So a fatal dose of fentanyl in his system but it didn't kill him. Ok, run with that one if you want.

Edit: note that the article is half a year old.

If he's a regular drug abuser, I'm sure it would take more than that to have killed Floyd, like a police officers knee on the neck.

[clenz]

If you were to watch the trial you would see that he had to spend about 5 minutes trying to ask that question different ways to get him to marginally agree with that statement. He didn't allow him to make his own decision on what was said, he was planting what was said to the persons head and asking over and over and over if it's possible that is what was said, if he could hear that it was potentially said, if someone could hear that while listening to the clip, etc.

We can also get into the details of how George Floyd, based on policies, should never have been placed in handcuffs when/how he was. He should never have been on the ground in the prone position. How he should never have had 3 officers kneel on him.

All 4 of those officers broke literally every policy they could break. The justification for that so far is "based on neighborhoods they are in" which ties into the claims of racial profiling and systemic differences for how different neighborhoods are treated. This was in a "black" neighborhood known for various criminal activities, so that is being attempted to be used as a justification for use of deadly force.

Remember this all started because he used a fake 20 dollar bill. He was killed over a fake 20 dollar bill. A crime that the chief of police said is something that they don't arrest for because it is not a violent offense. Yet the LEOs in that case drew their weapons and walked up to the car aiming them at the heads of people in the car fro the very start screaming for them to "GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE FUCKING CAR" and to "STOP FUCKING MOVING AND KEEP THE HANDS WHERE I CAN FUCKING SEE THEM".

Again, this is all over a fake 20 dollar bill.

What drugs he may have taken really has no impact. He wasn't going to die sitting in his vehicle as he was. He wasn't going to suffocate and go into cardiac arrest sitting in that car. If he did, then it's another drug user OD'ing on his own. Instead what happened what police showing up to an area that they aren't comfortable in, and using excessive force fro the very start, and causing someone to die in their custody by breaking every policy they could have.

You want to post the clip where the scene was considered code 4 when Chauvin arrived? The initial arresting officer called for back up but then before they arrived called over the radio the scene was code 4. Yet as soon as Chauvin arrived things instantly escalated.

Let's also say he did say "I ate too many drugs". Is that a crime punishable by death, on scene, at the hands of a patrol officer? Do patrol officers now get to adjudicate such things on the spot now and hand out death sentences and then execute the sentence because of it?

As for how this turned in to a race thing, it's pretty clear to see. Just look at the defense's own line of questioning to every witness. Over and over and over and over they are mentioning the specific neighborhood they were in simply being a reason to raise levels of force required. That neighborhood is a minority neighborhood. These types of incidents of extreme/overuse of force seem to happen more often in "those neighborhoods" than they would say in Eden Prairie or Edina or Maple Grove in the Minneapolis area.

So Floyd being high on fentanyl had nothing to do with this interaction?

No

It was not a drug call.
There was nothing mentioned of drug use until after

Even with that Chauvin is trained and required to render aid - specifically narcan - if drug use is suspected. He did not do so. The paramedics were not informed of drug use by the patrol officers. The hospital was not informed of suspected drug use by the officer that went with the transport.

I can tell you haven’t watched the trial

He was held in a hold that isn’t allowed, in a position that wasn’t allowed, because both are known to cause asphyxiation. He was not going to die from any drug in his system because his ability to breathe was taken from him by chauvin putting the entirety of his weight on his neck and back while in a position that for decades has been known to cause asphyxiation.

In fact the blood draw taken as soon as he was pronounced dead did not have what is considered a lethal dose. Medical professionals who treated him have testified in the stand and in writing that the levels were not high enough and based on all evidence INCLUDING the doctor who treated him have stated asphyxiation caused cardiac arrest was cause of death.


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[clenz]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-c ... r-BB18pb0p

So a fatal dose of fentanyl in his system but it didn't kill him. Ok, run with that one if you want.

Edit: note that the article is half a year old.

If he's a regular drug abuser, I'm sure it would take more than that to have killed Floyd, like a police officers knee on the neck.

Which is exactly what medical professionals have said


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[UNI88]

Floyd's death lead to protests in a lot of cities and rioting and looting a number of those cities. You can try and BDkkk things to limit the scope but this is about more than just what happened in Minneapolis.

If you want to be a cynic, the protests led to the riots and looting. If you want to be more forgiving but still rational, the protests provided cover for the riots and looting. I don't know what the ctrl-left version of a MAGAt is but that is what you are if you want to say that the riots and looting were justified.

I take issue with the ctrl-left leaders that use Floyd's and other tragic deaths and murders as tinder to start fires of discontent against law enforcement without even acknowledging other issues that take far more black lives. How are they different than Trump and the alt-right leaders who stir people up?

Liberals want to give them a pass because their cause is just while conservatives want to give the MAGAts a pass because their cause is just. The ends do not justify the means and they should all be prosecuted.

I'm not and never have said the rioting and looting was justified. Where did you get that from. You adding and removing context from my post, that are not what I've said. Protest good, rioting and looting bad, is the plain enough. I don't really care what the alt-right or crtl left say in this matter.

Floyd's death is a good reason to protest the inequality in our society.

When I did my own mechanic work on some of my not so trusty cars, I fixed one thing at a time. I couldn't replace an alternator, and change the oil at the same instant. What about the starter, what about the headlight? One thing at a time.

Did you fix the headlights by smashing them, complaining that you can't see at night and then refusing to spend money on new headlights? Portland severely cut police funding (defunding the police will fix racism), violent crime rates rose, and now the city is trying to figure out how to reduce violent crime without more police funding.

I refuse to give liberal leaders who looked the other way or worse encouraged the looting and rioting a pass. I expect better of all of our leaders and I don't think what they did is that different from Trump riling people up to attack the Capitol.

I have no problem with focusing on one problem at a time but 1) address the big picture and where that problem fits into it and 2) be honest - don't lead people to believe that lots of black people are being killed by the police. The data doesn't support it.

Police reform can save a lot more lives because it improves trust between the police and communities of color than it can from reducing the number of people of color who are killed by police.

[SDHornet]

So Floyd being high on fentanyl had nothing to do with this interaction?

No

It was not a drug call.
There was nothing mentioned of drug use until after

Even with that Chauvin is trained and required to render aid - specifically narcan - if drug use is suspected. He did not do so. The paramedics were not informed of drug use by the patrol officers. The hospital was not informed of suspected drug use by the officer that went with the transport.

I can tell you haven’t watched the trial

He was held in a hold that isn’t allowed, in a position that wasn’t allowed, because both are known to cause asphyxiation. He was not going to die from any drug in his system because his ability to breathe was taken from him by chauvin putting the entirety of his weight on his neck and back while in a position that for decades has been known to cause asphyxiation.

In fact the blood draw taken as soon as he was pronounced dead did not have what is considered a lethal dose. Medical professionals who treated him have testified in the stand and in writing that the levels were not high enough and based on all evidence INCLUDING the doctor who treated him have stated asphyxiation caused cardiac arrest was cause of death.


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So you missed the EMT testimony about the focus on loading up a patient in a hostile situation? I thought you said you watched every minute of this trial?

Drug call or not, was Floyd being under the influence a factor? He had 3 times the legal limit of fentanyl in his system, no?

[AZGrizFan]

Floyd's death lead to protests in a lot of cities and rioting and looting a number of those cities. You can try and BDkkk things to limit the scope but this is about more than just what happened in Minneapolis.

If you want to be a cynic, the protests led to the riots and looting. If you want to be more forgiving but still rational, the protests provided cover for the riots and looting. I don't know what the ctrl-left version of a MAGAt is but that is what you are if you want to say that the riots and looting were justified.

I take issue with the ctrl-left leaders that use Floyd's and other tragic deaths and murders as tinder to start fires of discontent against law enforcement without even acknowledging other issues that take far more black lives. How are they different than Trump and the alt-right leaders who stir people up?

Liberals want to give them a pass because their cause is just while conservatives want to give the MAGAts a pass because their cause is just. The ends do not justify the means and they should all be prosecuted.

I'm not and never have said the rioting and looting was justified. Where did you get that from. You adding and removing context from my post, that are not what I've said. Protest good, rioting and looting bad, is the plain enough. I don't really care what the alt-right or crtl left say in this matter.

Floyd's death is a good reason to protest the inequality in our society.

When I did my own mechanic work on some of my not so trusty cars, I fixed one thing at a time. I couldn't replace an alternator, and change the oil at the same instant. What about the starter, what about the headlight? One thing at a time.

If they’re going to “focus on one thing at a time”, perhaps they should spend their energy where it might actually do some good....as in addressing the cultural issues that drive black-on-black crime rates to soaring levels and resulting in about 99% of the AA deaths in a given year.

“Inequality in our society”, which certainly exists, isn’t what’s decimating the AA community. They’re doing THAT to themselves...the “racist police” mantra is nothing more than a red herring at this point, proven to be so minor of a part of police work as to be almost unmeasurable within the context of the # of police/civilian contacts in a given year. More blacks people were killed by OTHER black people in Chicago in the month of March ALONE than were killed in the entire country by the police in the past year.

But sure, let’s burn down cities to protest “inequality”.

[SDHornet]

The judge thinks Floyds prior drug use is relevant as he had a "hypertensive emergency" during that altercation with the cops as well.

On the date Floyd died, there “is a very similar starting situation” in what occurred almost exactly one year earlier on May 6, 2019, Cahill noted. In both incidents, a police officer approached Floyd, drew a weapon, and was met with a similar reaction from Floyd.

“There is also evidence of drug concealment upon being stopped by the police — basically, concealment by ingestion — in other words, that he was eating and otherwise hiding drugs,” Cahill said. “On May 25, there’s evidence of that from a white object of some sort being seen in a photograph from a video grab; there’s a pill in the back seat of the squad that he was ultimately taken to.”

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/liv ... der-trial/

[Gil Dobie]

I'm not and never have said the rioting and looting was justified. Where did you get that from. You adding and removing context from my post, that are not what I've said. Protest good, rioting and looting bad, is the plain enough. I don't really care what the alt-right or crtl left say in this matter.

Floyd's death is a good reason to protest the inequality in our society.

When I did my own mechanic work on some of my not so trusty cars, I fixed one thing at a time. I couldn't replace an alternator, and change the oil at the same instant. What about the starter, what about the headlight? One thing at a time.

Did you fix the headlights by smashing them, complaining that you can't see at night and then refusing to spend money on new headlights? Portland severely cut police funding (defunding the police will fix racism), violent crime rates rose, and now the city is trying to figure out how to reduce violent crime without more police funding.

I refuse to give liberal leaders who looked the other way or worse encouraged the looting and rioting a pass. I expect better of all of our leaders and I don't think what they did is that different from Trump riling people up to attack the Capitol.

I have no problem with focusing on one problem at a time but 1) address the big picture and where that problem fits into it and 2) be honest - don't lead people to believe that lots of black people are being killed by the police. The data doesn't support it.

Police reform can save a lot more lives because it improves trust between the police and communities of color than it can from reducing the number of people of color who are killed by police.

My point was never about numbers killed by police, it's about treatment of African Americans by our legal system. Blacks are punished more severed than whites that commit the same crime. Research backs this up.. Just trying to keep you on topic.

[Gil Dobie]

I'm not and never have said the rioting and looting was justified. Where did you get that from. You adding and removing context from my post, that are not what I've said. Protest good, rioting and looting bad, is the plain enough. I don't really care what the alt-right or crtl left say in this matter.

Floyd's death is a good reason to protest the inequality in our society.

When I did my own mechanic work on some of my not so trusty cars, I fixed one thing at a time. I couldn't replace an alternator, and change the oil at the same instant. What about the starter, what about the headlight? One thing at a time.

If they’re going to “focus on one thing at a time”, perhaps they should spend their energy where it might actually do some good....as in addressing the cultural issues that drive black-on-black crime rates to soaring levels and resulting in about 99% of the AA deaths in a given year.

“Inequality in our society”, which certainly exists, isn’t what’s decimating the AA community. They’re doing THAT to themselves...the “racist police” mantra is nothing more than a red herring at this point, proven to be so minor of a part of police work as to be almost unmeasurable within the context of the # of police/civilian contacts in a given year. More blacks people were killed by OTHER black people in Chicago in the month of March ALONE than were killed in the entire country by the police in the past year.

But sure, let’s burn down cities to protest “inequality”.

My point was about treatment of African Americans by our legal system. Blacks are punished more severed than whites that commit the same crime. Research backs this up. Just trying to keep you on topic.

[Gil Dobie]

The judge thinks Floyds prior drug use is relevant as he had a "hypertensive emergency" during that altercation with the cops as well.

On the date Floyd died, there “is a very similar starting situation” in what occurred almost exactly one year earlier on May 6, 2019, Cahill noted. In both incidents, a police officer approached Floyd, drew a weapon, and was met with a similar reaction from Floyd.

“There is also evidence of drug concealment upon being stopped by the police — basically, concealment by ingestion — in other words, that he was eating and otherwise hiding drugs,” Cahill said. “On May 25, there’s evidence of that from a white object of some sort being seen in a photograph from a video grab; there’s a pill in the back seat of the squad that he was ultimately taken to.”

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/liv ... der-trial/

So Chauvin force fed Floyd the drugs?

[houndawg]

No

It was not a drug call.
There was nothing mentioned of drug use until after

Even with that Chauvin is trained and required to render aid - specifically narcan - if drug use is suspected. He did not do so. The paramedics were not informed of drug use by the patrol officers. The hospital was not informed of suspected drug use by the officer that went with the transport.

I can tell you haven’t watched the trial

He was held in a hold that isn’t allowed, in a position that wasn’t allowed, because both are known to cause asphyxiation. He was not going to die from any drug in his system because his ability to breathe was taken from him by chauvin putting the entirety of his weight on his neck and back while in a position that for decades has been known to cause asphyxiation.

In fact the blood draw taken as soon as he was pronounced dead did not have what is considered a lethal dose. Medical professionals who treated him have testified in the stand and in writing that the levels were not high enough and based on all evidence INCLUDING the doctor who treated him have stated asphyxiation caused cardiac arrest was cause of death.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So you missed the EMT testimony about the focus on loading up a patient in a hostile situation? I thought you said you watched every minute of this trial?

Drug call or not, was Floyd being under the influence a factor? He had 3 times the legal limit of fentanyl in his system, no?

What a fucking halfwit.

It was a straight up execution of a suspect with his hands cuffed behind his back and over 500 lbs. of dead weight on him. Even the cops are thinking so out loud.

[UNI88]

Did you fix the headlights by smashing them, complaining that you can't see at night and then refusing to spend money on new headlights? Portland severely cut police funding (defunding the police will fix racism), violent crime rates rose, and now the city is trying to figure out how to reduce violent crime without more police funding.

I refuse to give liberal leaders who looked the other way or worse encouraged the looting and rioting a pass. I expect better of all of our leaders and I don't think what they did is that different from Trump riling people up to attack the Capitol.

I have no problem with focusing on one problem at a time but 1) address the big picture and where that problem fits into it and 2) be honest - don't lead people to believe that lots of black people are being killed by the police. The data doesn't support it.

Police reform can save a lot more lives because it improves trust between the police and communities of color than it can from reducing the number of people of color who are killed by police.

My point was never about numbers killed by police, it's about treatment of African Americans by our legal system. Blacks are punished more severed than whites that commit the same crime. Research backs this up.. Just trying to keep you on topic.

And I'm not criticizing you Gil. But I don't think the motives of many of the liberal leaders who supported the protests are that pure so I'm criticizing those leaders who looked the other way, thought it was justified or worse encouraged the looting and rioting.

My personal opinion based on what I've seen in Portland is that the looters and rioters don't really care about black lives. They're angry at the world and this gave them an excuse to destroy sh!t. They have attacked institutions of government and I would like to see all of our leaders step up and hold these people accountable like we are holding the Capitol rioters accountable. And don't tell me it's happening in Minneapolis because it isn't in Portland and I don't think it was in Seattle. African Americans have been treated unfairly by our legal system but let's not fix the problem and create a new class of victims by punishing conservatives more severely than liberals. If we continue down this road, we risk establishing a new double standard.

[Gil Dobie]

My point was never about numbers killed by police, it's about treatment of African Americans by our legal system. Blacks are punished more severed than whites that commit the same crime. Research backs this up.. Just trying to keep you on topic.

And I'm not criticizing you Gil. But I don't think the motives of many of the liberal leaders who supported the protests are that pure so I'm criticizing those leaders who looked the other way, thought it was justified or worse encouraged the looting and rioting.

My personal opinion based on what I've seen in Portland is that the looters and rioters don't really care about black lives. They're angry at the world and this gave them an excuse to destroy sh!t. They have attacked institutions of government and I would like to see all of our leaders step up and hold these people accountable like we are holding the Capitol rioters accountable. And don't tell me it's happening in Minneapolis because it isn't in Portland and I don't think it was in Seattle. African Americans have been treated unfairly by our legal system but let's not fix the problem and create a new class of victims by punishing conservatives more severely than liberals. If we continue down this road, we risk establishing a new double standard.

I've stated many times, rioters and looters should be made responsible for their actions. There should be one standard for all American's.

[clenz]

Yet another medical professional on record, under oath, stating cause of death was asphyxia




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[clenz]

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[89Hen]

Enough said. Everything is about racism, unless it's not about racism. Case in point, dems pushing for vaccination cards. Funny that voter ID is racist, but carrying a vaccination card isn't.

You keep deflecting from the topic, just like your original post. None of what you are saying has anything to do with mistreatment of African Americans by the legal system.

Where did I claim it did Gil??

[SDHornet]

So you missed the EMT testimony about the focus on loading up a patient in a hostile situation? I thought you said you watched every minute of this trial?

Drug call or not, was Floyd being under the influence a factor? He had 3 times the legal limit of fentanyl in his system, no?

What a fucking halfwit.

It was a straight up execution of a suspect with his hands cuffed behind his back and over 500 lbs. of dead weight on him. Even the cops are thinking so out loud.

So the fentanyl in Floyd's system had no impact on his ability to breathe?

Also I think the cop weighed about 145 lbs plus whatever gear he had on. 500 lbs? Didn't you take a physics class once-upon-a-time?

[Gil Dobie]

You keep deflecting from the topic, just like your original post. None of what you are saying has anything to do with mistreatment of African Americans by the legal system.

Where did I claim it did Gil??

You didn't, that's my point. The topic is about mistreatment of African Americans by our system.

[UNI88]

Where did I claim it did Gil??

You didn't, that's my point. The topic is about mistreatment of African Americans.

That's your opinion. In my opinion, this topic is about mistreatment of African Americans and the reactions to it. 89 might have a different opinion of what this topic is about. This is a message board, you can't dictate how people interpret and respond to a topic (despite my tweaking Super Horny over starting so many threads ).

[Gil Dobie]

What a fucking halfwit.

It was a straight up execution of a suspect with his hands cuffed behind his back and over 500 lbs. of dead weight on him. Even the cops are thinking so out loud.

So the fentanyl in Floyd's system had no impact on his ability to breathe?

Also I think the cop weighed about 145 lbs plus whatever gear he had on. 500 lbs? Didn't you take a physics class once-upon-a-time?

We'll may find that out today. It's entirely possible that he died before the fentanyl kicked in.

[SDHornet]

So the fentanyl in Floyd's system had no impact on his ability to breathe?

Also I think the cop weighed about 145 lbs plus whatever gear he had on. 500 lbs? Didn't you take a physics class once-upon-a-time?

We'll may find that out today. It's entirely possible that he died before the fentanyl kicked in.

Agreed. Also possible he was having breathing issues (maybe from the onset of an overdose) before any of the cops even laid a hand on him. It's up to the prosecution to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

[CAA Flagship]

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Was this Dr. Tobin wearing pants?

[89Hen]

Where did I claim it did Gil??

You didn't, that's my point. The topic is about mistreatment of African Americans by our system.

I thought we were having 3, 4 or 5 different discussions.

Sorry you don't want to address more than one at a time.