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China

Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 11:15 pm
by CID1990
China pervades a large number of active threads (which is appropriate, actually)

But I haven't found one dedicated to China's adverse influence on the free world. So I'll start with China's co-opting our tech sector through payments made to research professors to facilitate proprietary technology transfers.

It is good to see DOJ going after people aiding and abetting the CCP for cash:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/11/us/p ... china.html

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 4:36 am
by houndawg
CID1990 wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 11:15 pm
China pervades a large number of active threads (which is appropriate, actually)

But I haven't found one dedicated to China's adverse influence on the free world. So I'll start with China's co-opting our tech sector through payments made to research professors to facilitate proprietary technology transfers.

It is good to see DOJ going after people aiding and abetting the CCP for cash:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/11/us/p ... china.html

...dang, CID, you'd deny a fella a chance to sell his work to the highest bidder? :mrgreen:


I'm OK with going after the Chinese if thats what the DOJ is really doing and not just looking for some baksheesh. I think we should threaten closing the sea lanes to them if they don't change their thieving ways. They straightened up for a while after that wayward Tomahawk took out their embassy in Kosovo or whatever it was called back then..

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 5:32 am
by CID1990
houndawg wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 11:15 pm
China pervades a large number of active threads (which is appropriate, actually)

But I haven't found one dedicated to China's adverse influence on the free world. So I'll start with China's co-opting our tech sector through payments made to research professors to facilitate proprietary technology transfers.

It is good to see DOJ going after people aiding and abetting the CCP for cash:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/11/us/p ... china.html

...dang, CID, you'd deny a fella a chance to sell his work to the highest bidder? :mrgreen:


I'm OK with going after the Chinese if thats what the DOJ is really doing and not just looking for some baksheesh. I think we should threaten closing the sea lanes to them if they don't change their thieving ways. They straightened up for a while after that wayward Tomahawk took out their embassy in Kosovo or whatever it was called back then..
Our Navy, and our Navy’s predecessor (the Royal Navy) is dedicated to preserving the sea lanes. That is it’s purpose. We only deny the sea lanes of commerce to countries with which we are at war.

In that respect, we should guarantee free right of navigation to China just as we do all other countries.

But they have to play nicely, and they don’t.

100% of China’s naval buildup is geared solely towards two things:

Killing American aircraft carriers, and denying free navigation to commercial traffic as they see fit. Every single thing they are doing - from building carriers without effective global range, to quiet diesel submarines... is completely dedicated to denying commerce to competitors. Their advances in hypersonic missile tech is meant to deny US the ability to keep them from doing that.

I’ll save what they are doing n the foreign relations and economic fronts for other posts.

Everyone should be alarmed by China. And a united front against them by the free world is all that is necessary to contain them. They can have all the Cambodias and Bangladeshes and Mozambiques they want. But we need to get the Germanys and the Swedens AND the Russias on our side.

(Yes, the Russians... they are the most important part)

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 5:35 am
by CID1990
CID1990 wrote:
houndawg wrote:
...dang, CID, you'd deny a fella a chance to sell his work to the highest bidder? :mrgreen:


I'm OK with going after the Chinese if thats what the DOJ is really doing and not just looking for some baksheesh. I think we should threaten closing the sea lanes to them if they don't change their thieving ways. They straightened up for a while after that wayward Tomahawk took out their embassy in Kosovo or whatever it was called back then..
Our Navy, and our Navy’s predecessor (the Royal Navy) is dedicated to preserving the sea lanes. That is it’s purpose. We only deny the sea lanes of commerce to countries with which we are at war.

In that respect, we should guarantee free right of navigation to China just as we do all other countries.

But they have to play nicely, and they don’t.

100% of China’s naval buildup is geared solely towards two things:

Killing American aircraft carriers, and denying free navigation to commercial traffic as they see fit. Every single thing they are doing - from building carriers without effective global range, to quiet diesel submarines... is completely dedicated to denying commerce to competitors. Their advances in hypersonic missile tech is meant to deny US the ability to keep them from doing that.

I’ll save what they are doing n the foreign relations and economic fronts for other posts.

Everyone should be alarmed by China. And a united front against them by the free world is all that is necessary to contain them. They can have all the Cambodias and Bangladeshes and Mozambiques they want. But we need to get the Germanys and the Swedens AND the Russias on our side.

(Yes, the Russians... they are the most important part)
But to answer your question,.. yes. I would deny university professors the ability to sell their knowledge to a system which has our subjugation as its central tenet, yes.

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 6:17 am
by GannonFan
Although my company has operations in China (at least one factory, and multiple sales offices) we have an unwritten rule that we don't allow the most critical, trade secret parts of the process to be sited in China. Just no way to ensure that trade secrets stay as trade secrets once they are there. We keep those operations in the US and will do so going forward. Heck, one time we needed a spare part that our plant in China had and we almost couldn't get it out of the country as the authorities intervened and threatened to jail the plant manager of our plant in China if the part didn't come back in a timely fashion. And that was back in '08, I'm sure it's even worse now (we wouldn't even try doing that again).

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 6:46 am
by houndawg
CID1990 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:32 am
houndawg wrote:

...dang, CID, you'd deny a fella a chance to sell his work to the highest bidder? :mrgreen:


I'm OK with going after the Chinese if thats what the DOJ is really doing and not just looking for some baksheesh. I think we should threaten closing the sea lanes to them if they don't change their thieving ways. They straightened up for a while after that wayward Tomahawk took out their embassy in Kosovo or whatever it was called back then..
Our Navy, and our Navy’s predecessor (the Royal Navy) is dedicated to preserving the sea lanes. That is it’s purpose. We only deny the sea lanes of commerce to countries with which we are at war.

In that respect, we should guarantee free right of navigation to China just as we do all other countries.

But they have to play nicely, and they don’t.

100% of China’s naval buildup is geared solely towards two things:

Killing American aircraft carriers, and denying free navigation to commercial traffic as they see fit. Every single thing they are doing - from building carriers without effective global range, to quiet diesel submarines... is completely dedicated to denying commerce to competitors. Their advances in hypersonic missile tech is meant to deny US the ability to keep them from doing that.

I’ll save what they are doing n the foreign relations and economic fronts for other posts.

Everyone should be alarmed by China. And a united front against them by the free world is all that is necessary to contain them. They can have all the Cambodias and Bangladeshes and Mozambiques they want. But we need to get the Germanys and the Swedens AND the Russias on our side.

(Yes, the Russians... they are the most important part)
If we're going to exist in a state of war with rhese people, albeit only economically, it seems like we might as well go ahead and make it formal, because if the fight is only conducted economically I don't like our chances. I'm not talking about a land war in Asia or using aircraft carriers which about obsolete anyway - just take out their subs. Their subs go out, they don't come back. If they persist, start using their freighters to get new coral reefs established.

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:04 am
by CID1990
houndawg wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:32 am
Our Navy, and our Navy’s predecessor (the Royal Navy) is dedicated to preserving the sea lanes. That is it’s purpose. We only deny the sea lanes of commerce to countries with which we are at war.

In that respect, we should guarantee free right of navigation to China just as we do all other countries.

But they have to play nicely, and they don’t.

100% of China’s naval buildup is geared solely towards two things:

Killing American aircraft carriers, and denying free navigation to commercial traffic as they see fit. Every single thing they are doing - from building carriers without effective global range, to quiet diesel submarines... is completely dedicated to denying commerce to competitors. Their advances in hypersonic missile tech is meant to deny US the ability to keep them from doing that.

I’ll save what they are doing n the foreign relations and economic fronts for other posts.

Everyone should be alarmed by China. And a united front against them by the free world is all that is necessary to contain them. They can have all the Cambodias and Bangladeshes and Mozambiques they want. But we need to get the Germanys and the Swedens AND the Russias on our side.

(Yes, the Russians... they are the most important part)
If we're going to exist in a state of war with rhese people, albeit only economically, it seems like we might as well go ahead and make it formal, because if the fight is only conducted economically I don't like our chances. I'm not talking about a land war in Asia or using aircraft carriers which about obsolete anyway - just take out their subs. Their subs go out, they don't come back. If they persist, start using their freighters to get new coral reefs established.
There’s a lot to unpack there

And it’s almost Trumpian

But we don’t just kill their subs.... 70% of their underwater navy is super quiet diesel subs. Cheap, Kilo class bastards from Russia, and now their own homegrown stuff, built off of copied Russian tech, and stolen tech, and stuff the Clintons legitimately transferred time them

Economics is how China got where it is... because we allowed them into global markets as a strategy for moderating the CCP

That strategy was a dismal failure

BUT China is dependent on the free world to buy their cheap plastic shit at WalMart

Galvanize the colloque... Us, UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, Kiwis, and Scandinavia and China chokes on its OWN debt instead of us choking on our own that they hold the scrip for

Let China sell their snake oil and loan sharking services to Africa and Central Asia

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:14 am
by houndawg
CID1990 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:04 am
houndawg wrote:
If we're going to exist in a state of war with rhese people, albeit only economically, it seems like we might as well go ahead and make it formal, because if the fight is only conducted economically I don't like our chances. I'm not talking about a land war in Asia or using aircraft carriers which about obsolete anyway - just take out their subs. Their subs go out, they don't come back. If they persist, start using their freighters to get new coral reefs established.
There’s a lot to unpack there

And it’s almost Trumpian

But we don’t just kill their subs.... 70% of their underwater navy is super quiet diesel subs. Cheap, Kilo class bastards from Russia, and now their own homegrown stuff, built off of copied Russian tech, and stolen tech, and stuff the Clintons legitimately transferred time them

Economics is how China got where it is... because we allowed them into global markets as a strategy for moderating the CCP

That strategy was a dismal failure

BUT China is dependent on the free world to buy their cheap plastic shit at WalMart

Galvanize the colloque... Us, UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, Kiwis, and Scandinavia and China chokes on its OWN debt instead of us choking on our own that they hold the scrip for

Let China sell their snake oil and loan sharking services to Africa and Central Asia
Sounds like the fight is already over

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:15 am
by Ivytalk
CID1990 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:04 am
houndawg wrote:
If we're going to exist in a state of war with rhese people, albeit only economically, it seems like we might as well go ahead and make it formal, because if the fight is only conducted economically I don't like our chances. I'm not talking about a land war in Asia or using aircraft carriers which about obsolete anyway - just take out their subs. Their subs go out, they don't come back. If they persist, start using their freighters to get new coral reefs established.
There’s a lot to unpack there

And it’s almost Trumpian

But we don’t just kill their subs.... 70% of their underwater navy is super quiet diesel subs. Cheap, Kilo class bastards from Russia, and now their own homegrown stuff, built off of copied Russian tech, and stolen tech, and stuff the Clintons legitimately transferred time them

Economics is how China got where it is... because we allowed them into global markets as a strategy for moderating the CCP

That strategy was a dismal failure

BUT China is dependent on the free world to buy their cheap plastic shit at WalMart

Galvanize the colloque... Us, UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, Kiwis, and Scandinavia and China chokes on its OWN debt instead of us choking on our own that they hold the scrip for

Let China sell their snake oil and loan sharking services to Africa and Central Asia
Higher education is one of the few areas in which the US retains global leadership. I would pass a law barring all PRC students from attending American universities and prohibiting those universities from taking any Red Chinese money, directly or indirectly.

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:19 am
by houndawg
Ivytalk wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:15 am
CID1990 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:04 am


There’s a lot to unpack there

And it’s almost Trumpian

But we don’t just kill their subs.... 70% of their underwater navy is super quiet diesel subs. Cheap, Kilo class bastards from Russia, and now their own homegrown stuff, built off of copied Russian tech, and stolen tech, and stuff the Clintons legitimately transferred time them

Economics is how China got where it is... because we allowed them into global markets as a strategy for moderating the CCP

That strategy was a dismal failure

BUT China is dependent on the free world to buy their cheap plastic shit at WalMart

Galvanize the colloque... Us, UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, Kiwis, and Scandinavia and China chokes on its OWN debt instead of us choking on our own that they hold the scrip for

Let China sell their snake oil and loan sharking services to Africa and Central Asia
Higher education is one of the few areas in which the US retains global leadership. I would pass a law barring all PRC students from attending American universities and prohibiting those universities from taking any Red Chinese money, directly or indirectly.
That won't last, you'll be sending your grandkids to Europe for college

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:21 am
by GannonFan
houndawg wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:19 am
Ivytalk wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:15 am


Higher education is one of the few areas in which the US retains global leadership. I would pass a law barring all PRC students from attending American universities and prohibiting those universities from taking any Red Chinese money, directly or indirectly.
That won't last, you'll be sending your grandkids to Europe for college
Europe??? Really? Have you seen the state of affairs of higher education in Europe? I think you need to get out of Carbondale more often, universities in Europe are not exactly on solid footing, outside of the handful of Oxford-type universities.

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:26 am
by Ivytalk
houndawg wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:19 am
Ivytalk wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:15 am


Higher education is one of the few areas in which the US retains global leadership. I would pass a law barring all PRC students from attending American universities and prohibiting those universities from taking any Red Chinese money, directly or indirectly.
That won't last, you'll be sending your grandkids to Europe for college
Nope. The flagship/A-list schools to which the Reds covet access will all survive this mess.

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:34 am
by GannonFan
Ivytalk wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:26 am
houndawg wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:19 am


That won't last, you'll be sending your grandkids to Europe for college
Nope. The flagship/A-list schools to which the Reds covet access will all survive this mess.
Agreed, the Chinese aren't flocking to Pace University, Clarks Summit University, or Wheeling Jesuit.

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:42 am
by AZGrizFan
CID1990 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:32 am
houndawg wrote:

...dang, CID, you'd deny a fella a chance to sell his work to the highest bidder? :mrgreen:


I'm OK with going after the Chinese if thats what the DOJ is really doing and not just looking for some baksheesh. I think we should threaten closing the sea lanes to them if they don't change their thieving ways. They straightened up for a while after that wayward Tomahawk took out their embassy in Kosovo or whatever it was called back then..
Our Navy, and our Navy’s predecessor (the Royal Navy) is dedicated to preserving the sea lanes. That is it’s purpose. We only deny the sea lanes of commerce to countries with which we are at war.

In that respect, we should guarantee free right of navigation to China just as we do all other countries.

But they have to play nicely, and they don’t.

100% of China’s naval buildup is geared solely towards two things:

Killing American aircraft carriers, and denying free navigation to commercial traffic as they see fit. Every single thing they are doing - from building carriers without effective global range, to quiet diesel submarines... is completely dedicated to denying commerce to competitors. Their advances in hypersonic missile tech is meant to deny US the ability to keep them from doing that.

I’ll save what they are doing n the foreign relations and economic fronts for other posts.

Everyone should be alarmed by China. And a united front against them by the free world is all that is necessary to contain them. They can have all the Cambodias and Bangladeshes and Mozambiques they want. But we need to get the Germanys and the Swedens AND the Russias on our side.

(Yes, the Russians... they are the most important part)
You left out the best part: building new/fake islands (usually with a large military presence) to extend their claims to disputed waters.

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:49 am
by houndawg
GannonFan wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:21 am
houndawg wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:19 am


That won't last, you'll be sending your grandkids to Europe for college
Europe??? Really? Have you seen the state of affairs of higher education in Europe? I think you need to get out of Carbondale more often, universities in Europe are not exactly on solid footing, outside of the handful of Oxford-type universities.
same as here - and guess who is more likely to spend money on their educational system

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:51 am
by houndawg
AZGrizFan wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:42 am
CID1990 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:32 am


Our Navy, and our Navy’s predecessor (the Royal Navy) is dedicated to preserving the sea lanes. That is it’s purpose. We only deny the sea lanes of commerce to countries with which we are at war.

In that respect, we should guarantee free right of navigation to China just as we do all other countries.

But they have to play nicely, and they don’t.

100% of China’s naval buildup is geared solely towards two things:

Killing American aircraft carriers, and denying free navigation to commercial traffic as they see fit. Every single thing they are doing - from building carriers without effective global range, to quiet diesel submarines... is completely dedicated to denying commerce to competitors. Their advances in hypersonic missile tech is meant to deny US the ability to keep them from doing that.

I’ll save what they are doing n the foreign relations and economic fronts for other posts.

Everyone should be alarmed by China. And a united front against them by the free world is all that is necessary to contain them. They can have all the Cambodias and Bangladeshes and Mozambiques they want. But we need to get the Germanys and the Swedens AND the Russias on our side.

(Yes, the Russians... they are the most important part)
You left out the best part: building new/fake islands (usually with a large military presence) to extend their claims to disputed waters.
There is supposed to be a shitload of oil under those disputed waters, that was a big reason we went into Vietnam.

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:18 am
by CID1990
houndawg wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:42 am
You left out the best part: building new/fake islands (usually with a large military presence) to extend their claims to disputed waters.
There is supposed to be a shitload of oil under those disputed waters, that was a big reason we went into Vietnam.
I expected this thread to mature a little more before somebody trotted out that Alex Jones level bullshit

But I did figure it would be you, HD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:29 am
by Pwns
So all of Cap'n Cat's threads and posts were just trolling Ralphtax Error or he was warning us? :lol:

www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/ ... 9&p=340192
www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/ ... 3&p=204508
Cap'n Cat wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:39 pm
You know, guys, they're really gonna be pissed when they pull up this board and check out your sh*t. And, don't think informer Ralph doesn't know where some of you clowns live and won't tell them of your anti-Chinese activities and where your little darlings go to school.

Image
"Ah, yes, Komrade AZGreezFan. Live on 2518 Heather Ridge Avenoo, Cave Creek Areezona. Known to drink Bud Right Rime and ruvs Ronard Reagan. He FIRST to go!"



:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
Cap'n Cat wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:22 pm
They're coming. Look busy cuz they mean business.

:(

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 11:07 am
by SDHornet
10 year old thread bumps. Nice! :lol: :notworthy:

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 3:07 pm
by CitadelGrad
Ivytalk wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:15 am
CID1990 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:04 am


There’s a lot to unpack there

And it’s almost Trumpian

But we don’t just kill their subs.... 70% of their underwater navy is super quiet diesel subs. Cheap, Kilo class bastards from Russia, and now their own homegrown stuff, built off of copied Russian tech, and stolen tech, and stuff the Clintons legitimately transferred time them

Economics is how China got where it is... because we allowed them into global markets as a strategy for moderating the CCP

That strategy was a dismal failure

BUT China is dependent on the free world to buy their cheap plastic shit at WalMart

Galvanize the colloque... Us, UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, Kiwis, and Scandinavia and China chokes on its OWN debt instead of us choking on our own that they hold the scrip for

Let China sell their snake oil and loan sharking services to Africa and Central Asia
Higher education is one of the few areas in which the US retains global leadership. I would pass a law barring all PRC students from attending American universities and prohibiting those universities from taking any Red Chinese money, directly or indirectly.
You are clearly a racist.

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 3:21 pm
by dbackjon
AZGrizFan wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:42 am
CID1990 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:32 am


Our Navy, and our Navy’s predecessor (the Royal Navy) is dedicated to preserving the sea lanes. That is it’s purpose. We only deny the sea lanes of commerce to countries with which we are at war.

In that respect, we should guarantee free right of navigation to China just as we do all other countries.

But they have to play nicely, and they don’t.

100% of China’s naval buildup is geared solely towards two things:

Killing American aircraft carriers, and denying free navigation to commercial traffic as they see fit. Every single thing they are doing - from building carriers without effective global range, to quiet diesel submarines... is completely dedicated to denying commerce to competitors. Their advances in hypersonic missile tech is meant to deny US the ability to keep them from doing that.

I’ll save what they are doing n the foreign relations and economic fronts for other posts.

Everyone should be alarmed by China. And a united front against them by the free world is all that is necessary to contain them. They can have all the Cambodias and Bangladeshes and Mozambiques they want. But we need to get the Germanys and the Swedens AND the Russias on our side.

(Yes, the Russians... they are the most important part)
You left out the best part: building new/fake islands (usually with a large military presence) to extend their claims to disputed waters.
Yup - their nine-dash line BS

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 3:42 pm
by Ivytalk
CitadelGrad wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 3:07 pm
Ivytalk wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:15 am


Higher education is one of the few areas in which the US retains global leadership. I would pass a law barring all PRC students from attending American universities and prohibiting those universities from taking any Red Chinese money, directly or indirectly.
You are clearly a racist.
Takes one to know one, Gen. Forrest.

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 3:55 pm
by ∞∞∞
CitadelGrad wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 3:07 pm
Ivytalk wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:15 am


Higher education is one of the few areas in which the US retains global leadership. I would pass a law barring all PRC students from attending American universities and prohibiting those universities from taking any Red Chinese money, directly or indirectly.
You are clearly a racist.
Yeah, I'm not about denying anyone a good education just because we don't like their government...especially young people who have no influence on anything. I rather expose them to America and if they like it, give them an option to stay.

Ultimately, American companies are agreeing to do business and give away their trade secrets to the Chinese. Young people trying to better themselves should not be political pawns for issues grown-ass adults are causing.

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 3:56 pm
by Ivytalk
∞∞∞ wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 3:55 pm
CitadelGrad wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 3:07 pm


You are clearly a racist.
Yeah, I'm not about denying anyone a good education just because we don't like their government...especially young people who have no influence on anything. If anything, I rather expose them to America and if they like it, give them an option to stay.

Ultimately, American companies are agreeing to do business and give away their trade secrets to the Chinese. Young people trying to better themselves should not be political pawns for issues grown-ass adults are causing.
My God, are you naive! :lol:

Re: China

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 6:09 pm
by SeattleGriz
houndawg wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:14 am
CID1990 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:04 am


There’s a lot to unpack there

And it’s almost Trumpian

But we don’t just kill their subs.... 70% of their underwater navy is super quiet diesel subs. Cheap, Kilo class bastards from Russia, and now their own homegrown stuff, built off of copied Russian tech, and stolen tech, and stuff the Clintons legitimately transferred time them

Economics is how China got where it is... because we allowed them into global markets as a strategy for moderating the CCP

That strategy was a dismal failure

BUT China is dependent on the free world to buy their cheap plastic shit at WalMart

Galvanize the colloque... Us, UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, Kiwis, and Scandinavia and China chokes on its OWN debt instead of us choking on our own that they hold the scrip for

Let China sell their snake oil and loan sharking services to Africa and Central Asia
Sounds like the fight is already over
Fucking quitter!