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Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

Let’s keep a running account of countries that are co-opted by China, shall we?

Cambodia, Thailand and Laos should inspire zero fucks.

But what about half of South America, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, and Honduras? How about most of Africa?

We are rapidly whittling down to Australia (the most realistic about China), the Kiwis, the EU, and that’s about it.

Our own Presidency will be bought and paid for while we bitch and debate about whether a man is a woman or the odd squirrel is protected enough


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Re: China

Post by SeattleGriz »

CAA Flagship wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:12 pm
They'll be making shoes for NIKE in no time. Oh the irony of Kapernick being a spokesman.
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Re: China

Post by dbackjon »

SeattleGriz wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:29 pm
CAA Flagship wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:12 pm
They'll be making shoes for NIKE in no time. Oh the irony of Kapernick being a spokesman.
I thought they were making Ivanka's shoes
:thumb:

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Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

This guy pretty much sums up my thinking on whether we are even capable of thwarting China’s ambitions


https://theweek.com/articles/925443/ame ... -war-china
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Re: China

Post by UNI88 »

CID1990 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:49 am
This guy pretty much sums up my thinking on whether we are even capable of thwarting China’s ambitions

https://theweek.com/articles/925443/ame ... -war-china
All of our energy in this country is internal. The great racial tragedy of our age is not the genocide being carried out against Uighur Muslims in West China but the continued existence of beloved syrup and football mascots. The villains are not the pusillanimous collaborators at Disney and the NBA, but American senators who dare to suggest that the lives of people in Hong Kong matter more than box office receipts and profits from exhibition games and the sale of merchandise in a country in whose law the concept of racial discrimination does not even exist. On the one hand, China is literally enslaving the people of Eritrea as I write this; on the other hand, the bad orange man over here said "kung flu." Only one of these countries' leaders is generally represented in domestic media as an authoritarian monster.

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Re: China

Post by GannonFan »

UNI88 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:56 am
CID1990 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:49 am
This guy pretty much sums up my thinking on whether we are even capable of thwarting China’s ambitions

https://theweek.com/articles/925443/ame ... -war-china
All of our energy in this country is internal. The great racial tragedy of our age is not the genocide being carried out against Uighur Muslims in West China but the continued existence of beloved syrup and football mascots. The villains are not the pusillanimous collaborators at Disney and the NBA, but American senators who dare to suggest that the lives of people in Hong Kong matter more than box office receipts and profits from exhibition games and the sale of merchandise in a country in whose law the concept of racial discrimination does not even exist. On the one hand, China is literally enslaving the people of Eritrea as I write this; on the other hand, the bad orange man over here said "kung flu." Only one of these countries' leaders is generally represented in domestic media as an authoritarian monster.
This quote was good from the article as well...
On the one hand, China is literally enslaving the people of Eritrea as I write this; on the other hand, the bad orange man over here said "kung flu." Only one of these countries' leaders is generally represented in domestic media as an authoritarian monster.
I would hope that a Trump defeat in November would get us past the hysterical politics that exist today, but I'm not really that hopeful that he's the only reason why politics are as dysfunctional today as they are. He's likely still just the product of our poisoned politics, and not really the source of them.
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Re: China

Post by Ivytalk »

CID1990 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:49 am
This guy pretty much sums up my thinking on whether we are even capable of thwarting China’s ambitions


https://theweek.com/articles/925443/ame ... -war-china
Good piece. Did you read the Eberstadt article in NR?
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Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:49 am
This guy pretty much sums up my thinking on whether we are even capable of thwarting China’s ambitions


https://theweek.com/articles/925443/ame ... -war-china
Good piece. Did you read the Eberstadt article in NR?
I did. It is well done, and a bit too much of a heavy intellectual lift for the people who would most benefit from reading it.
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Re: China

Post by houndawg »

SeattleGriz wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:29 pm
CAA Flagship wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:12 pm
They'll be making shoes for NIKE in no time. Oh the irony of Kapernick being a spokesman.
:ohno:

Not to mention the irony of him making the entire NFL his bitches. :coffee:

Put your money where your mouth is they said... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: China

Post by UNI88 »

CAA Flagship wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:12 pm
Socialism for the win! ;)

Where will Xi rank on the list of greatest mass murderers of all time?

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Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

UNI88 wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:12 pm
Socialism for the win! ;)

Where will Xi rank on the list of greatest mass murderers of all time?
Who was it who said that totalitarian governments fall only when they stop killing people?


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Re: China

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:49 am
This guy pretty much sums up my thinking on whether we are even capable of thwarting China’s ambitions


https://theweek.com/articles/925443/ame ... -war-china
Without ever once mentioning globalism and the role American companies played in giving all this to China.

They weren’t forced to, just like no one is forcing us now not to bring back domestic manufacturing.

It’s all a choice. It was tge one thing Trump potentially got right.

The silence the author decries is aka campaign finance.
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Re: China

Post by Pwns »

kalm wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:33 am
CID1990 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:49 am
This guy pretty much sums up my thinking on whether we are even capable of thwarting China’s ambitions


https://theweek.com/articles/925443/ame ... -war-china
Without ever once mentioning globalism and the role American companies played in giving all this to China.

They weren’t forced to, just like no one is forcing us now not to bring back domestic manufacturing.

It’s all a choice. It was tge one thing Trump potentially got right.

The silence the author decries is aka campaign finance.
Why are you such a jingoistic America firster, kalm? :ohno:







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Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

kalm wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:49 am
This guy pretty much sums up my thinking on whether we are even capable of thwarting China’s ambitions


https://theweek.com/articles/925443/ame ... -war-china
Without ever once mentioning globalism and the role American companies played in giving all this to China.

They weren’t forced to, just like no one is forcing us now not to bring back domestic manufacturing.

It’s all a choice. It was tge one thing Trump potentially got right.

The silence the author decries is aka campaign finance.
Um

We already covered all of this, klam

Ivy’s classmate also wrote about it in agonizing detail

Surely an eastern WA guy would be averse to plowing the same row twice

(unless he’s a golf guy and knows little about wheat)


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Re: China

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:05 pm
kalm wrote:
Without ever once mentioning globalism and the role American companies played in giving all this to China.

They weren’t forced to, just like no one is forcing us now not to bring back domestic manufacturing.

It’s all a choice. It was tge one thing Trump potentially got right.

The silence the author decries is aka campaign finance.
Um

We already covered all of this, klam

Ivy’s classmate also wrote about it in agonizing detail

Surely an eastern WA guy would be averse to plowing the same row twice

(unless he’s a golf guy and knows little about wheat)


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Yet here you are posting this article.
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Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

kalm wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:05 pm
Um

We already covered all of this, klam

Ivy’s classmate also wrote about it in agonizing detail

Surely an eastern WA guy would be averse to plowing the same row twice

(unless he’s a golf guy and knows little about wheat)


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Yet here you are posting this article.
Your redundant addendum is what I was referring to


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Re: China

Post by Baldy »

CID1990 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:44 am
UNI88 wrote:
Socialism for the win! ;)

Where will Xi rank on the list of greatest mass murderers of all time?
Who was it who said that totalitarian governments fall only when they stop killing people?


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Watch the Chinese ambassador to the UK shit his pants while trying to answer the question.


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Re: China

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:37 pm
kalm wrote:
Yet here you are posting this article.
Your redundant addendum is what I was referring to


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I know how you feel. :thumb:

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Re: China

Post by CitadelGrad »

GannonFan wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:27 am
UNI88 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:56 am


This quote was good from the article as well...
On the one hand, China is literally enslaving the people of Eritrea as I write this; on the other hand, the bad orange man over here said "kung flu." Only one of these countries' leaders is generally represented in domestic media as an authoritarian monster.
I would hope that a Trump defeat in November would get us past the hysterical politics that exist today, but I'm not really that hopeful that he's the only reason why politics are as dysfunctional today as they are. He's likely still just the product of our poisoned politics, and not really the source of them.
A Biden win would get us past the hysterical politics, because he would give the hysterics everything they want.
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Re: China

Post by CitadelGrad »

dbackjon wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:10 am
SeattleGriz wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:29 pm


They'll be making shoes for NIKE in no time. Oh the irony of Kapernick being a spokesman.
I thought they were making Ivanka's shoes
Ivanka wears Nikes? I'm pretty sure Kapernick does.
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Re: China

Post by Winterborn »

Ivytalk wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:04 pm
CID1990 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:49 am
This guy pretty much sums up my thinking on whether we are even capable of thwarting China’s ambitions


https://theweek.com/articles/925443/ame ... -war-china
Good piece. Did you read the Eberstadt article in NR?
Eberstadt's article was spot on. I had forwarded it on to my brother when it came out and we had a real interesting discussion on China and our past role/relationship with them. He is in his early 20's and U.S. foreign policy is something he hasn't really looked into much and it was interesting to hear his perspective on it.
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Re: China

Post by UNI88 »

Winterborn wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:45 am
Ivytalk wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:04 pm

Good piece. Did you read the Eberstadt article in NR?
Eberstadt's article was spot on. I had forwarded it on to my brother when it came out and we had a real interesting discussion on China and our past role/relationship with them. He is in his early 20's and U.S. foreign policy is something he hasn't really looked into much and it was interesting to hear his perspective on it.
Is this the China Unquarantined article?

And in a nutshell, what was your brother's perspective?

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Re: China

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:07 am
Winterborn wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:45 am


Eberstadt's article was spot on. I had forwarded it on to my brother when it came out and we had a real interesting discussion on China and our past role/relationship with them. He is in his early 20's and U.S. foreign policy is something he hasn't really looked into much and it was interesting to hear his perspective on it.
Is this the China Unquarantined article?

And in a nutshell, what was your brother's perspective?
That is the one I am talking about (and assume Ivy is as well).

My brother is extremely well informed on domestic politics (we often talk domestic politics for a couple of hours a week sometimes) so he understands the interplay between the parties and the policies that come out of that discussion. He was aware of what China was doing due to the COVID response and while prior he had no opinion on the WHO or really much opinion on the rest of China's policy towards the world outside of that he was against it just based on general principles of the little he has read covering it and that we (the United States) have supported them in the past for various reasons.

The background of the interplay between Taiwan and China was also something he only knew a bit about outside of the basic how it occurred but not the why.

That has changed here in the last few months for a couple of reasons. The main two are the WHO/COVID coverup and the handling of Hong Kong protestors.

He now realizes how big of role our foreign policy plays into our domestic policy and that China plays a much longer game then typical politics in the Western World. I was also able to fill him in on some of the cultural reasons why China does certain things and how they look at decision making. He is very much anti-China (and communist in general) now and is in favor of doing whatever it takes to trim back their influence. It has been interesting listening to him draw conclusions between the ideology of what the protestors espouse and communism/socialism.

His path in the understanding of politics started with him concentrating on domestic vs. foreign, while mine has been the opposite. We both have different areas of interest and it makes for a good conversation of bouncing ideas off of each other. :nod:

He used to think I was a pessimist when it came to politics and human behavior, but change his mind a year or so back as he really started to dig into the background on some issues. :D
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Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

The problem with the WHO is that their number one overarching responsibility is protecting against global pandemics. They have many other responsibilities but that one is key.

The CCP lied about the virus to save face, and they used their influence over the WHO to legitimize their lies.

And the really alarming thing is that in the interest of reversing everything the Trump admin did, the next admin is going to open back up to China.


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Re: China

Post by UNI88 »

Winterborn wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:56 am
UNI88 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:07 am

Is this the China Unquarantined article?

And in a nutshell, what was your brother's perspective?
That is the one I am talking about (and assume Ivy is as well).
Interesting and long article. I need to set aside some time to finish it.

I do wonder if the CCP is really only the face of China and not really the cause of the problem. The real issue seems to be the Han belief that they are the rightful rulers of the world (celestial empire, mandate of heaven, etc.).

Would things be different if Chiang Kai-shek had won? Or would we still have arrived at this point?

Link to the article - China Unquarantined
While policymakers accurately assessed the upside for America from engaging China, they missed a whole dimension of downside in the righthand column of the ledger. They gave virtually no consideration to the unintended ramifications of promoting global “interdependence” with an increasingly powerful actor that does not share Western liberal values — that is, indeed, implacably hostile to them. An entire class of hazards inherent in our grand strategy for “managing China” were left, by America’s chief risk officers, priced effectively at zero — even as our “globalization” policies exposed our society, economy, and political system to huge new vulnerabilities at the hands of the Chinese Communist Party.

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