China

Political discussions
∞∞∞
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12297
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:30 am

Re: China

Post by ∞∞∞ »

I guess we're at the point in this dumb timeline where Bob Woodward is considered an outlandish author...

Trump above all.
Ibanez
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 60482
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:16 pm
I am a fan of: Coastal Carolina

Re: China

Post by Ibanez »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:24 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:44 am

Of course Trump and a supporter of his are going to cast doubt - that isn't why you should take it with a grain of salt. :lol:
Why would Trump and Grenell cast doubt that Milley committed treason? Seems Trump was saying the authors were known for outlandish stories.
OH I read your post differently. I was reading that Trump and Grenell cast doubt on Milley's comments and actions - i.e. saying it wasn't true. That wouldn't show Trump in the best light and obvious that they wouldn't like it. :lol:
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: China

Post by Ivytalk »

∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:17 am
SDHornet wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:07 pm

Your mental gymnastics are quite astounding.

I'm sure the lawyers here will tell you that this type of thinking is built into our legal and judicial systems and is a key component of "Spirit of Law" in enlightenment ideals. The major US example is the Constitution being a living document open to flexibility and interpretation. Another is that a jury can follow their own sense of justice and nullify a law.
Umm, no.

For fun, Tripz, I looked back at the brilliant Constitutional exegesis in your 9/22/20 posts in the RBG Cancer thread. You have no clue how the system of checks and balances works. Back then, you trashed the Constitution as an archaic product of wealthy, white, “privelaged[sic]” men who thwarted the will of the people by keeping the Legislative branch in check. News flash: the last 50 years have witnessed a relentless surrender of those clear Article I powers by Congress to the Executive. Now, you adopt the usual progressive trope of the Constitution as a “living document” when the plain text is defended only when it comports with the left’s preferred outcome. You can’t have it both ways.

As for “jury nullification,” the federal courts have consistently refused to recognize it as a right. A criminal defendant has no right to a jury instruction giving the jury the right to ignore the judge’s instructions on the law. Sure, courts have recognized the concept of jury nullification, and examples exist of “rogue juries” in drug cases and otherwise, but it is not a right. In fact, people in jury pools who express beliefs like yours can be stricken for cause.
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
∞∞∞
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12297
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:30 am

Re: China

Post by ∞∞∞ »

The Constitution is archaic. It's also a living document.

Our next Constitution should continue being a living document.
Last edited by ∞∞∞ on Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: China

Post by UNI88 »

∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:38 am I guess we're at the point in this dumb timeline where Bob Woodward is considered an outlandish author...

Trump above all.
Where do you get that from?

CID posted:
CID1990 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:40 pm I haven't read any of Woodward's book, but I am sure it contains a lot of truth mixed in with a little "he said, she said"
Who else really mentions Woodward?

Is the Trump worship that much different from the Obama adulation?
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
∞∞∞
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12297
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:30 am

Re: China

Post by ∞∞∞ »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:25 pm
∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:38 am I guess we're at the point in this dumb timeline where Bob Woodward is considered an outlandish author...

Trump above all.
Where do you get that from?

CID posted:
CID1990 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:40 pm I haven't read any of Woodward's book, but I am sure it contains a lot of truth mixed in with a little "he said, she said"
Who else really mentions Woodward?

Is the Trump worship that much different from the Obama adulation?
SD's post right before mine, but maybe I missed something else it's referring to
User avatar
89Hen
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 39223
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:13 pm
I am a fan of: High Horses
A.K.A.: The Almighty Arbiter

Re: China

Post by 89Hen »

I'm not going to bother to read through the posts, but when I heard this on the news last night, IF true, there is no way this is not treason at its most basic definition. Sorry guys.
Image
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 23236
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: China

Post by houndawg »

andy7171 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:33 am Here's my simpleton non-military take on this. Were Milley to alert China of an impending secret assault. China would prepare and defend itself as one would expect. Thus killing, potentially, Americans that might otherwise not have died due to the element of surprise.

That, is what I find treasonous and unacceptable.
The only Americans likely to be in China when we attack might be some businessmen; collateral damage easily replaced. :coffee:
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
User avatar
GannonFan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 18038
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:51 am
I am a fan of: Delaware
A.K.A.: Non-Partisan Hack

Re: China

Post by GannonFan »

houndawg wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:23 pm
andy7171 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:33 am Here's my simpleton non-military take on this. Were Milley to alert China of an impending secret assault. China would prepare and defend itself as one would expect. Thus killing, potentially, Americans that might otherwise not have died due to the element of surprise.

That, is what I find treasonous and unacceptable.
The only Americans likely to be in China when we attack might be some businessmen; collateral damage easily replaced. :coffee:
Or students, or tourists, or medical personnel involved in a shared program, or the actual guys involved in doing the attacking. I know likely no one you would ever care about, but it wouldn't just be a few guys in suits.
Proud Member of the Blue Hen Nation
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 23236
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: China

Post by houndawg »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:38 pm
houndawg wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:23 pm

The only Americans likely to be in China when we attack might be some businessmen; collateral damage easily replaced. :coffee:
Or students, or tourists, or medical personnel involved in a shared program, or the actual guys involved in doing the attacking. I know likely no one you would ever care about, but it wouldn't just be a few guys in suits.
I care about my fellow veterans at least as much as you do, but there won't be some kind of D-Day landing operation going on. It will be missiles all the way. :coffee:
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
User avatar
Pwns
Level4
Level4
Posts: 7273
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:38 pm
I am a fan of: Georgia Friggin' Southern
A.K.A.: FCS_pwns_FBS (AGS)

Re: China

Post by Pwns »

Some cant seem to make up their mind whether Trump was controlled by Russia or whether he'd start a war on a whim.
Celebrate Diversity.*
*of appearance only. Restrictions apply.
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: China

Post by SDHornet »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:41 am Jesus, Trip's logical circles are really hard to follow today. :suspicious: :suspicious:
Like I said, the mental gymnastics by Leftists and neo-Marxists is astounding.
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

∞∞∞ wrote:Nah, Harris is damaged.

Milley should run for President. Need more honorable people who know how to handle tough situations. Milley - among others - are straight up American heroes for correctly assuming they had a traitor in Trump in the chain of command. There's no reason to risk our national security and democracy for any individual, whether it's the President or not.

I'm thankful Milley took a proactive step to reaffirm order when the damn capitol had just been attacked.

The fact he had to do what he did is the extremely disturbing point. Some of you should take ethics; laws are meant to be broken.
So much for all those “institutions and norms” we heard about from you guys fainting couches during Trump’s tenure, eh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

kalm wrote:
SDHornet wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:41 pm So what Milley did isn't authoritarian? :rofl:

Oh and I bet you don't feel this way about the folks openly choosing to ignore the Biden China Virus mandates. :coffee:
How is it authoritarian? It’s practically the opposite.

It’s a bitter pill to swallow that Trump was dangerous and that Jan 6th was real I guess.
Springing to the defense of the leftmost again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: China

Post by CID1990 »

∞∞∞ wrote:I guess we're at the point in this dumb timeline where Bob Woodward is considered an outlandish author...

Trump above all.
What about LTC Vindman?

He not a hero anymore?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: China

Post by SDHornet »

CID1990 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:52 pm
∞∞∞ wrote:I guess we're at the point in this dumb timeline where Bob Woodward is considered an outlandish author...

Trump above all.
What about LTC Vindman?

He not a hero anymore?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh the conundrums Leftists get themselves into sometimes. Quite the entertainment watching them backtrack/defend/make excuses for all the hypocritical nonsense they spew and support. It never gets old.

CAA Flagship
4th&29
4th&29
Posts: 38526
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:01 pm
I am a fan of: Old Dominion
A.K.A.: He/His/Him/Himself
Location: Pizza Hell

Re: China

Post by CAA Flagship »

I haven't followed this that closely, but how did Woodward find out about the Milley phone calls? Did Milley tell him about them? Or did Woodward get that info from somewhere else?
∞∞∞
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12297
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:30 am

Re: China

Post by ∞∞∞ »

CID1990 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:52 pm
∞∞∞ wrote:I guess we're at the point in this dumb timeline where Bob Woodward is considered an outlandish author...

Trump above all.
What about LTC Vindman?

He not a hero anymore?
Vindman is a good dude, but he has an opinion which I find incorrect.
∞∞∞
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12297
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:30 am

Re: China

Post by ∞∞∞ »

CID1990 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:49 pm
∞∞∞ wrote:Nah, Harris is damaged.

Milley should run for President. Need more honorable people who know how to handle tough situations. Milley - among others - are straight up American heroes for correctly assuming they had a traitor in Trump in the chain of command. There's no reason to risk our national security and democracy for any individual, whether it's the President or not.

I'm thankful Milley took a proactive step to reaffirm order when the damn capitol had just been attacked.

The fact he had to do what he did is the extremely disturbing point. Some of you should take ethics; laws are meant to be broken.
So much for all those “institutions and norms” we heard about from you guys fainting couches during Trump’s tenure, eh
Who is "you guys?" I've been calling for a remake of the United States for years now.

Lots of institutional norms should be thrown out the window. But I still do believe in democracy, individual rights, human rights, freedom, and science...which Trump, the GOP, and the current conservative movement are a grave threat to. Institutional norms should be broken in order to create a better democracy, not a fascist state as the Trump cult is attempting.

I'm glad Americans are fighting back, but fascism isn't easy to defeat. The 2020s are gonna be a helluva ride.
User avatar
andy7171
Firefly
Firefly
Posts: 27951
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:12 am
I am a fan of: Wiping.
A.K.A.: HE HATE ME
Location: Eastern Palouse

Re: China

Post by andy7171 »

houndawg wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:23 pm
andy7171 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:33 am Here's my simpleton non-military take on this. Were Milley to alert China of an impending secret assault. China would prepare and defend itself as one would expect. Thus killing, potentially, Americans that might otherwise not have died due to the element of surprise.

That, is what I find treasonous and unacceptable.
The only Americans likely to be in China when we attack might be some businessmen; collateral damage easily replaced. :coffee:
I'm talking about the Americans in the theoretical surprise attack. Launched by the only President to not start a war in the last 50 years.
"Elaine, you're from Baltimore, right?"
"Yes, well, Towson actually."
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: China

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:50 pm
kalm wrote:
How is it authoritarian? It’s practically the opposite.

It’s a bitter pill to swallow that Trump was dangerous and that Jan 6th was real I guess.
Springing to the defense of the leftmost again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well I didn’t know that you caught feels for the insurrectionists and Trump but if Milley is considered the “leftmost”…guilty as charged, I guess.

:thumb:
Image
Image
Image
Ibanez
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 60482
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:16 pm
I am a fan of: Coastal Carolina

Re: China

Post by Ibanez »

andy7171 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:16 am
houndawg wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:23 pm

The only Americans likely to be in China when we attack might be some businessmen; collateral damage easily replaced. :coffee:
I'm talking about the Americans in the theoretical surprise attack. Launched by the only President to not start a war in the last 50 years.
War is a loaded word. Presidents over the past 50 years have continued, intensified and ended wars but which wars were actually began by Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton and Obama? Or are you counting military interventions like Grenada, Haiti, Panama, Balkans, etc...?

I think the first President since LBJ to enter the US into a new war was Bush in 1990.


Someone fact check me but, I think Ford, Carter and Trump get the honor of not starting or escalating no net new conflicts or even escalating existing conflicts.
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
User avatar
LeadBolt
Level3
Level3
Posts: 3584
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:44 pm
I am a fan of: William & Mary
Location: Botetourt

Re: China

Post by LeadBolt »

I really don’t get why the left doesn’t think critically.

Milley betrayed our country to its biggest nation state threat and boasted he had the guns to take over.

An insurrection is overthrowing an established government and setting up another government. Like the autonomous zone in Portland.

A mostly peaceful protest doesn’t include violence against people, pillaging, looting and burning.

The FBI reports that the Jan 6 incident at the Capitol shows little or any prior planning and direction.

It takes 26,000 troops to protect 535 Legislators in DC, but less than 5,000 to protect thousands of Americans in Iraq.

Georgia and Texas expanding and unifying voting hours, but requiring valid ID to prevent fraudulent votes is not voter suppression.

Killing your unborn children is not a Constitutionally protected right.

HIPPA laws are to protect the privacy of your medical records.

Uncontrolled immigration brings down countries.

Socialism doesn’t elevate the living conditions of the poor but rather lowers the level for everyone except governmental elites and their enablers where ever it has been tried over 100+ years of experiments around the globe.

Ruling by Executive Orders, because Congress has abdicated its responsibilities is dictatorial and leads to fascism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
andy7171
Firefly
Firefly
Posts: 27951
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:12 am
I am a fan of: Wiping.
A.K.A.: HE HATE ME
Location: Eastern Palouse

Re: China

Post by andy7171 »

Ibanez wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:49 am
andy7171 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:16 am
I'm talking about the Americans in the theoretical surprise attack. Launched by the only President to not start a war in the last 50 years.
War is a loaded word. Presidents over the past 50 years have continued, intensified and ended wars but which wars were actually began by Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton and Obama? Or are you counting military interventions like Grenada, Haiti, Panama, Balkans, etc...?

I think the first President since LBJ to enter the US into a new war was Bush in 1990.


Someone fact check me but, I think Ford, Carter and Trump get the honor of not starting or escalating no net new conflicts or even escalating existing conflicts.
Congrats Mr. Nitpicky! 40 years!*





Spoiler: show
*DICK
"Elaine, you're from Baltimore, right?"
"Yes, well, Towson actually."
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: China

Post by UNI88 »

∞∞∞ wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:35 am
CID1990 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:49 pm
So much for all those “institutions and norms” we heard about from you guys fainting couches during Trump’s tenure, eh
Who is "you guys?" I've been calling for a remake of the United States for years now.

Lots of institutional norms should be thrown out the window. But I still do believe in democracy, individual rights, human rights, freedom, and science...which Trump, the GOP, and the current conservative movement are a grave threat to. Institutional norms should be broken in order to create a better democracy, not a fascist state as the Trump cult is attempting.

I'm glad Americans are fighting back, but fascism isn't easy to defeat. The 2020s are gonna be a helluva ride.
And current pseudo-progressives (regressives to be more accurate because they want to go backward and try old, failed ideas rather than coming up with new progressive ones) are also a grave threat to the republic, individual rights, freedom, science (that doesn't fit their views), etc.

I'm also glad that Americans are fighting back, but Marxism isn't easy to defeat. The 2020s are gonna be a heckuva ride.


And here I am, stuck in the middle between whacked-out extremists that want to destroy the country. :coffee:
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
Post Reply