China

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Re: China

Post by Skjellyfetti »

BDKJMU wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:43 pm
GannonFan wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:08 am

Yeah, I don't think it's alien-based either, but it would be nice to know exactly what it is we're shooting down in the skies. I think those sidewinder missiles are about $500k a pop, and apparently we missed on the first shot on one of the small "things" and had to shoot a second missile to take it down. You figure we haven't used military force in our own airspace for something like, I don't know, since WWII, and now we break that string of 80 years of no military force in our airspace and in the span of two weeks we shoot off 5 missiles. I really just want to know what we're shooting at - I don't think that's a big ask. :coffee:
Agreed. $439k a pop.
https://www.msn.com/en-US/news/world/th ... r-AA17rkGh

For the lower altitude ones not sure why we couldn’t use A10s or C130 gun ships. Putting up a pair of A10s or a single C130 gunship + a burst of 20 MM from a Gatling I would imagine would be a lot cheaper than putting up a pair of F22s or F16s + a $439k sidewinder (Edit: and in the one case 2 sidewinders)..
should we eliminate live fire exercises? just ground the planes and let the pilots use simulators until needed to save some $$
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Re: China

Post by GannonFan »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:20 am
BDKJMU wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:43 pm
Agreed. $439k a pop.
https://www.msn.com/en-US/news/world/th ... r-AA17rkGh

For the lower altitude ones not sure why we couldn’t use A10s or C130 gun ships. Putting up a pair of A10s or a single C130 gunship + a burst of 20 MM from a Gatling I would imagine would be a lot cheaper than putting up a pair of F22s or F16s + a $439k sidewinder (Edit: and in the one case 2 sidewinders)..
should we eliminate live fire exercises? just ground the planes and let the pilots use simulators until needed to save some $$
Of course not, don't think anyone is saying that. Heck, I'd rather we just get some good information shared over what we're shooting down. Double heck, even the Chinese spy balloon may not even be a spy balloon after all, and we may have known that was the case from the start as we tracked it from the moment it went aloft (which contradicts what we said publicly at the time). As for live fire exercises and the like, I'm all for military readiness and whatever it takes to get us there. But like I said, that's a red herring for the actual discussion we're having here.
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Re: China

Post by houndawg »

GannonFan wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:39 am
Skjellyfetti wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:20 am

should we eliminate live fire exercises? just ground the planes and let the pilots use simulators until needed to save some $$
Of course not, don't think anyone is saying that. Heck, I'd rather we just get some good information shared over what we're shooting down. Double heck, even the Chinese spy balloon may not even be a spy balloon after all, and we may have known that was the case from the start as we tracked it from the moment it went aloft (which contradicts what we said publicly at the time). As for live fire exercises and the like, I'm all for military readiness and whatever it takes to get us there. But like I said, that's a red herring for the actual discussion we're having here.
Doesn't matter if its a spy balloon or not, and since we've been watching it from the time it took off I'd say the military is of the opinion that it isn't going to learn anything they don't already know, or maybe we want to feed their sensors some false information; the important part is to manufacture outrage when opportunity arises, even if its just a tan suit. :coffee:

Shit, if we took out every balloon China released there would still be thousands of balloons per day to track just from weddings and funerals and gender-reveal parties....very slick move by China...

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Re: China

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Brandon: allowed an actual GINOURMOUS Chinese spy ballon with a huge payload to float across the entirety of both Alaska and the lower 48, over a whole week, including hovering over many of our most sensitive military installations.

Brandon then scrambles 2 F22s (at a cost of 6 figures alone evem without the missile) and uses $439,000 sidewinder missile to shoot down a little $12 ballon from Hobby Lobby.. :shock: :shock: :shock: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Yeah, that will teach those right wingers for refusing to comply with the Obamacare contrception mandate..
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Last edited by BDKJMU on Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: China

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If you voted for Joe. Please punch yourself in the face, you hobby club hater.

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... -down-usaf
A small, globe-trotting balloon declared “missing in action” by an Illinois-based hobbyist club on Feb. 15 has emerged as a candidate to explain one of the three mystery objects shot down by four heat-seeking missiles launched by U.S. Air Force fighters since Feb. 10.
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Re: China

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..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: China

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Gotta love all the smart asses adding reviews and asking questions on Amazon if their balloon will get shot down if they buy one.

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Re: China & Russia

Post by UNI88 »

China and Russia are locked in a death spiral
Human numbers – particularly of young people – are a crucial and often overlooked determinant of world affairs. And demographically, neither the Bear nor the Dragon is in good shape.

The Russians have had too few children to replace themselves since the days of Khrushchev. Putin’s efforts to get the birth rate up have had limited and, it would appear, merely temporary effects. If Russia has not aged as much as some other countries, it is not because of a fresh blush of surging youth but because too many of its late-middle aged, particularly men, die of alcoholism and despair.
...
China, meanwhile, is suffering the calamitous consequences of its One Child policy. Imposed iniquitously and lifted too late to make a difference, its legacy is a population – and in particular a young population – that is already falling, and is likely to halve by the end of the century.
...
China and Russia, individually or together, still have great nuisance potential. The damage wreaked by Putin’s soldiers in Ukraine is testimony to that. But as the West girds itself to confront the challenge, it should take comfort from the soft demographic underbelly of its opponents. The new Cold War may already be over.
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Re: China & Russia

Post by GannonFan »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:00 pm China and Russia are locked in a death spiral
Human numbers – particularly of young people – are a crucial and often overlooked determinant of world affairs. And demographically, neither the Bear nor the Dragon is in good shape.

The Russians have had too few children to replace themselves since the days of Khrushchev. Putin’s efforts to get the birth rate up have had limited and, it would appear, merely temporary effects. If Russia has not aged as much as some other countries, it is not because of a fresh blush of surging youth but because too many of its late-middle aged, particularly men, die of alcoholism and despair.
...
China, meanwhile, is suffering the calamitous consequences of its One Child policy. Imposed iniquitously and lifted too late to make a difference, its legacy is a population – and in particular a young population – that is already falling, and is likely to halve by the end of the century.
...
China and Russia, individually or together, still have great nuisance potential. The damage wreaked by Putin’s soldiers in Ukraine is testimony to that. But as the West girds itself to confront the challenge, it should take comfort from the soft demographic underbelly of its opponents. The new Cold War may already be over.
It's a good aspect to keep in mind and has been bandied about here as well. Russia is really too far gone to do much about this, other than the savage invasions you see in Ukraine. They still have nukes, and a lot of them, so they'll always be a factor of some sort, but militarily even the botched invasion in Ukraine is evidence of their sloppy military. For China, this population issue may, in part, be driving their foreign policy to get something done now, as they are already seeing other economic factors that, combined with the coming population bomb, is threatening their ability to forcefully achieve things like taking Taiwan. It's not like either of these countries are big recipients of immigration, so they don't really have many answers to the population dilemma.
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Re: China

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'10 years left': This famed geopolitical analyst says China will collapse in the next decade
Zeihan raised eyebrows in a January interview with Joe Rogan, in which he predicted the People’s Republic would collapse in 10 years. Rogan, though no stranger to controversy, was taken aback.
...
  • The 9.9% erosion: China’s struggling economy - From multiple and significant angles, China’s economy is under heavy strain. In particular, the nation has experienced rare civil unrest due to its strict zero-COVID-19 policy, which locked down vast sections of the economy, lowered industrial output and curbed consumer spending.
    ...
  • The 800 million population puzzle: aging out - China’s population is getting older — fast. As its people age and retire, fewer working-age individuals are around to support them. The United Nations forecasts the nation’s population — now roughly 1.42 billion — to fall below 800 million by the year 2100.
    ...
  • Is 20.4% too much? Trade’s share of GDP - But trade dependence makes China vulnerable to global economic fluctuations and trade policy shifts. The COVID-19 pandemic exposed that reliance when demand for Chinese products dropped.
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Re: China

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A Civilian U.S. 'Joint Chiefs' for Economic Competition with China?
A civilian JCS—which could include at least the secretaries of Commerce, State, and Treasury—could be patterned after the vision that President Truman had for the JCS after World War II. He articulated this vision in a 1946 letter to the U.S. Congress, stating that the responsibility of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was:

“To formulate strategic plans, to assign logistic responsibilities to the services in support thereof, to integrate the military programs, to make recommendations for integration of the military budget, and to provide for the strategic direction of the United States military forces.”

Today's civilian cabinet leaders have highlighted the need for just such a new approach. Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo concluded that the United States is “operating in a fundamentally different strategic environment” that is “forcing us to defend our businesses and workers—and those of our allies and partners.” Secretary of State Anthony Blinken has highlighted the need to “sustain and expand our economic and technological influence” to “compete with China to defend our interests and build our vision for the future.” And Secretary of Treasury Janet Yellen has indicated that “it will be increasingly difficult to separate economic issues from broader considerations of national interest, including national security.”
Seems like a logical approach. I'd love to hear CID's thoughts on this.
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Re: China

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UNI88 wrote:A Civilian U.S. 'Joint Chiefs' for Economic Competition with China?
A civilian JCS—which could include at least the secretaries of Commerce, State, and Treasury—could be patterned after the vision that President Truman had for the JCS after World War II. He articulated this vision in a 1946 letter to the U.S. Congress, stating that the responsibility of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was:

“To formulate strategic plans, to assign logistic responsibilities to the services in support thereof, to integrate the military programs, to make recommendations for integration of the military budget, and to provide for the strategic direction of the United States military forces.”

Today's civilian cabinet leaders have highlighted the need for just such a new approach. Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo concluded that the United States is “operating in a fundamentally different strategic environment” that is “forcing us to defend our businesses and workers—and those of our allies and partners.” Secretary of State Anthony Blinken has highlighted the need to “sustain and expand our economic and technological influence” to “compete with China to defend our interests and build our vision for the future.” And Secretary of Treasury Janet Yellen has indicated that “it will be increasingly difficult to separate economic issues from broader considerations of national interest, including national security.”
Seems like a logical approach. I'd love to hear CID's thoughts on this.
We already have it. It’s called the National Security Council. It is bigger than any of the mentioned executive agencies, is unelected and unconfirmed (by design), and unaccountable to American citizens.

Yes let’s create another unaccountable government fiefdom/cabal.

Terrible idea.


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Re: China

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CID1990 wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:06 pm
UNI88 wrote:A Civilian U.S. 'Joint Chiefs' for Economic Competition with China?

Seems like a logical approach. I'd love to hear CID's thoughts on this.
We already have it. It’s called the National Security Council. It is bigger than any of the mentioned executive agencies, is unelected and unconfirmed (by design), and unaccountable to American citizens.

Yes let’s create another unaccountable government fiefdom/cabal.

Terrible idea.
:thumb: Unlike the Russian Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne, I will defer to your knowledge and experience.
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Re: China

Post by GannonFan »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:57 pm
CID1990 wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:06 pm
We already have it. It’s called the National Security Council. It is bigger than any of the mentioned executive agencies, is unelected and unconfirmed (by design), and unaccountable to American citizens.

Yes let’s create another unaccountable government fiefdom/cabal.

Terrible idea.
:thumb: Unlike the Russian Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne, I will defer to your knowledge and experience.
I agree with CID. Besides, when have we ever really had that kind of economic coordination at the federal level for the general economy? Possibly during the Great Depression, but certainly never any other time. And there's plenty of arguments that the efforts during the Great Depression where futile at best. But agree with CID, no reason to layer another unelected group over something that appears to be working pretty well already without it.
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Re: China

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:57 am
UNI88 wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:57 pm

:thumb: Unlike the Russian Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne, I will defer to your knowledge and experience.
I agree with CID. Besides, when have we ever really had that kind of economic coordination at the federal level for the general economy? Possibly during the Great Depression, but certainly never any other time. And there's plenty of arguments that the efforts during the Great Depression where futile at best. But agree with CID, no reason to layer another unelected group over something that appears to be working pretty well already without it.
Also this…

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Re: China

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 7:25 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:57 am
I agree with CID. Besides, when have we ever really had that kind of economic coordination at the federal level for the general economy? Possibly during the Great Depression, but certainly never any other time. And there's plenty of arguments that the efforts during the Great Depression where futile at best. But agree with CID, no reason to layer another unelected group over something that appears to be working pretty well already without it.
Also this…

Committees are groups of people who take minutes and waste hours.
Yes they are. Of course, authoritarians would say the same thing about democracy.
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Re: China

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:31 am
kalm wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 7:25 am

Also this…

Committees are groups of people who take minutes and waste hours.
Yes they are. Of course, authoritarians would say the same thing about democracy.
Quit stealing my schtick ya bastard.
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Re: China

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 7:25 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:57 am

I agree with CID. Besides, when have we ever really had that kind of economic coordination at the federal level for the general economy? Possibly during the Great Depression, but certainly never any other time. And there's plenty of arguments that the efforts during the Great Depression where futile at best. But agree with CID, no reason to layer another unelected group over something that appears to be working pretty well already without it.
Also this…

Committees are groups of people who take minutes and waste hours.
We occasionally agree on something.
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..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: China

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kalm wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:41 am
UNI88 wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:31 am
Yes they are. Of course, authoritarians would say the same thing about democracy.
Quit stealing my schtick ya bastard.
The opportunity was too rich to resist.
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Re: China

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China Controls Minerals That Run the World—and It Just Fired a Warning Shot at U.S.
Beijing’s export restrictions on two minerals this week show it is willing to use its dominance to rock Western supply chains

SINGAPORE—China’s decision this week to restrict the export of two minerals used in semiconductors, solar panels and missile systems was more than a trade salvo. It was a reminder of its dominant hold over the world’s mineral resources—and a warning of its willingness to use them in its escalating rivalry with the U.S.

Around two-thirds of the world’s lithium and cobalt—essential for electric cars—is processed in China. The country is the source of nearly 60% of aluminum, also used in EV batteries, and 80% of polysilicon, an ingredient in solar panels. It has an even tighter grip on rare-earth minerals that go into crucial technologies, like making smartphone touch screens and missile-defense systems, accounting for 90% of their refining, according to the International Energy Agency.

Chinese companies also often control processing that isn’t done at home. A significant share of the world’s nickel supply, for instance, comes directly from China, but much of the rest is also in Chinese hands, refined by companies from China in places such as Indonesia and Papua New Guinea.

On Friday, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen told U.S. businesses in China that the Biden administration was still evaluating Beijing’s decision announced Monday to restrict the export of gallium and germanium, but the move was a reminder of the importance of diversified supply chains.

China’s hold over the world’s minerals gives it the power to potentially disrupt the West’s energy transition, chip manufacturing and defense industries as its great-power rivalry with the U.S. heats up. A Chinese move to restrict exports of, say, lithium or cobalt would hit non-Chinese automakers hard, throwing the production of electric-car batteries into disarray....
https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-cont ... s-5961d77b
Only posted 1st about 1/3rd of article. Link behind a paywall, but accessible through Drudge..
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Re: China

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Has China squandered its golden opportunity to overtake the US? Here’s why one analyst is predicting this is its ‘last decade’ of power and prosperity

For decades, China has seen relentless growth in power and economic prosperity. But there are growing signs that the economic miracle has ended and that the path to further growth in the years ahead will be more difficult.

But does that mean China has lost its chance to ever overtake the United States?
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Re: China

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UNI88 wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:38 pm Has China squandered its golden opportunity to overtake the US? Here’s why one analyst is predicting this is its ‘last decade’ of power and prosperity

For decades, China has seen relentless growth in power and economic prosperity. But there are growing signs that the economic miracle has ended and that the path to further growth in the years ahead will be more difficult.

But does that mean China has lost its chance to ever overtake the United States?
China's problems are many - too many people, too many old people over the next 50 years compared to the young people to support them (and in a country where immigration is pretty much nil), too many construction projects they already don't need (that real estate bubble is going to be devastating), too many countries they tried to screw over with debt-ridden projects, and so on. Plus they've scared the bejesus out of companies afraid that China will simply take their intellectual property if they locate there that for at least the past decade companies with the best IP are either pulling out of China or simply not moving the most sensitive (i.e. most profitable) processes into China in the first place. But that's what happens when your government is a totalitarian government - that's not good for anyone, but especially not good for business. The style of capitalism in the US is far from a perfect model, but what it is is a really flexible model that allows for a fair amount of freedom to succeed or fail. And no one is really afraid to come here with their business or people - there's no fear of government directed detainment or IP theft.
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Re: China

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https://www.wral.com/story/jon-stewart- ... /21106604/

How dare Jon Stewart talk about how tech companies might be complicit in helping China suppress dissent.
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