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UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:12 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:37 am

We are spending too much and not in the right places.

Oh…and bye Felicia.

FYP.

The beauty of our republic is (or used to be) that we compromised to find the right mix of priorities. Now respect is lacking and the extremes think they're right, the other side is wrong, and their smug, self-righteousness is justified.

Can entrenched power be taken down through centrism?

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:24 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:12 am
FYP.

The beauty of our republic is (or used to be) that we compromised to find the right mix of priorities. Now respect is lacking and the extremes think they're right, the other side is wrong, and their smug, self-righteousness is justified.

Can entrenched power be taken down through centrism?

Smug, self-righteousness noted ...

Is working to take down entrenched power and replace it with worse entrenched power (i.e. a socialist government) a good idea?

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:28 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:24 am

Can entrenched power be taken down through centrism?

Smug, self-righteousness noted ...

Is working to take down entrenched power and replace it with worse entrenched power (i.e. a socialist government) a good idea?

It was a sincere question. Sorry it hurt your feelings.

And of course not.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:31 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:28 am
Smug, self-righteousness noted ...

Is working to take down entrenched power and replace it with worse entrenched power (i.e. a socialist government) a good idea?

It was a sincere question. Sorry it hurt your feelings.

And of course not.

I'm not a pseudo-progressive or MAGAt Karen so my feelings are fine as indicated by the wink emoji.

If that's true than the course advocated by Bernie, AOChe, Trip, et al is a bad idea and worth standing up against.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:36 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:31 am

It was a sincere question. Sorry it hurt your feelings.

And of course not.

I'm not a pseudo-progressive or MAGAt Karen so my feelings are fine as indicated by the wink emoji.

If that's true than the course advocated by Bernie, AOChe, Trip, et al is a bad idea and worth standing up against.

You’re as much a Karen when it comes to AOC and Bernie as I am with Reagan.

You’re conflating proposed socialist policies in America with totalitarianism. We ain’t going from Reaganomics to marxism.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:41 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:36 am
I'm not a pseudo-progressive or MAGAt Karen so my feelings are fine as indicated by the wink emoji.

If that's true than the course advocated by Bernie, AOChe, Trip, et al is a bad idea and worth standing up against.

You’re as much a Karen when it comes to AOC and Bernie as I am with Reagan.

You’re conflating proposed socialist policies in America with totalitarianism. We ain’t going from Reaganomics to marxism.

Touche ...

Socialism on a large scale leads to an authoritarian government which ultimately fails. Prove me wrong (I think we've had a similar discussion before).

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:01 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:41 am

You’re as much a Karen when it comes to AOC and Bernie as I am with Reagan.

You’re conflating proposed socialist policies in America with totalitarianism. We ain’t going from Reaganomics to marxism.

Touche ...

Socialism on a large scale leads to an authoritarian government which ultimately fails. Prove me wrong (I think we've had a similar discussion before).

For those keeping score, this is where kalmy states he's not completely against what 88 is saying and that he's just playing devils advocate.
It usually happens 1.2 pages into a thread of direct one on one exchanges.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:01 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:41 am

You’re as much a Karen when it comes to AOC and Bernie as I am with Reagan.

You’re conflating proposed socialist policies in America with totalitarianism. We ain’t going from Reaganomics to marxism.

Touche ...

Socialism on a large scale leads to an authoritarian government which ultimately fails. Prove me wrong (I think we've had a similar discussion before).

So does unrestrained capitalism. The saving grace of both is guaranteed rights and democracy.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:33 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:01 am
Touche ...

Socialism on a large scale leads to an authoritarian government which ultimately fails. Prove me wrong (I think we've had a similar discussion before).

So does unrestrained capitalism. The saving grace of both is guaranteed rights and democracy.

Can you give me examples of unrestrained capitalism that lead to an authoritarian government which ultimately failed?

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:35 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:33 am

So does unrestrained capitalism. The saving grace of both is guaranteed rights and democracy.

Can you give me examples of unrestrained capitalism that lead to an authoritarian government which ultimately failed?

We haven’t had much unrestrained capitalism. Which is nice.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:35 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:33 am

So does unrestrained capitalism. The saving grace of both is guaranteed rights and democracy.

Can you give me examples of unrestrained capitalism that lead to an authoritarian government which ultimately failed?

I'm sure there are holes in the comparison, but the Republic of Venice?

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:47 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:35 am

Can you give me examples of unrestrained capitalism that lead to an authoritarian government which ultimately failed?

We haven’t had much unrestrained capitalism. Which is nice.

Much?

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:47 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:35 am

Can you give me examples of unrestrained capitalism that lead to an authoritarian government which ultimately failed?

We haven’t had much unrestrained capitalism. Which is nice.

Pretty true. In America, there hasn't been any real unrestrained capitalism since maybe the 1870's, and even then just in certain sectors and not for very long.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:52 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:47 am

We haven’t had much unrestrained capitalism. Which is nice.

Pretty true. In America, there hasn't been any real unrestrained capitalism since maybe the 1870's, and even then just in certain sectors and not for very long.

And none of this is to say all restraints are good or necessary. But there some which prevent capitalism from eating itself.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:50 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:35 am
Can you give me examples of unrestrained capitalism that lead to an authoritarian government which ultimately failed?

I'm sure there are holes in the comparison, but the Republic of Venice?

Venice might be as close to unrestrained capitalism as we can get but did that capitalism lead to an authoritarian government and ultimately the failure of the government?

Unrestrained capitalism is likely just a leftist boogeyman which like true communism sounds good to some and evil to others but is practically unattainable because of humankind's lust for power and control.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:15 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:50 am

I'm sure there are holes in the comparison, but the Republic of Venice?

Venice might be as close to unrestrained capitalism as we can get but did that capitalism lead to an authoritarian government and ultimately the failure of the government?

Unrestrained capitalism is likely just a leftist boogeyman which like true communism sounds good to some and evil to others but is practically unattainable because of humankind's lust for power and control.

Agreed on the Venice part - it was really competition from the rest of the world for trading routes as well as military decline that ultimately doomed Venice. They were mean bastards if you crossed the line, but that didn't matter as much in the end once they didn't have much of a navy left to assert their power.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:14 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:52 am

Pretty true. In America, there hasn't been any real unrestrained capitalism since maybe the 1870's, and even then just in certain sectors and not for very long.

And none of this is to say all restraints are good or necessary. But there some which prevent capitalism from eating itself.

Well, you can also argue that capitalism is also pretty good at preventing too much regulation from starving itself.

A good example of this, over what's going to be a long term, is Europe. There isn't anything they don't like to regulate, and heavily if they can. Thankfully for us, they've chosen to be the regulator of the world rather than the innovator of the world. Granted, there are other, lesser reasons for their slow decline on the world stage, but it does appear that a slow and steady decline of European influence will be played out over the current century. My kids will have to tell their grandkids about the time when Europe was important - the grandkids probably won't believe them.

CID1990 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:21 am

Ivytalk wrote:Macau looks pretty good, except for the China proximity thing. Fiscally sound, gambling, and lots of hookers and blow.

On second thought, maybe Chile.

PRC is putting the clamps on Macau as we speak


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Hence the Chilean fallback. The Caymans are nice.

Ivytalk wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:08 pm

CID1990 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:21 am
PRC is putting the clamps on Macau as we speak

Hence the Chilean fallback. The Caymans are nice.

Hungary is landlocked. Caymans and Chili give you options for your yacht.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:27 pm

Ivytalk wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:08 pm

Hence the Chilean fallback. The Caymans are nice.

Hungary is landlocked. Caymans and Chili give you options for your yacht.

*Chile

Chili is a food that gives you an irrevocable option to shyt.

Ivytalk wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:30 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:27 pm
Hungary is landlocked. Caymans and Chili give you options for your yacht.

*Chile

Chili is a food that gives you an irrevocable option to shyt.

Oops

Ol Geriatric Joe probably just killed both the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the big bill the house hard lefties want

Did it with his big mouth...

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/10/ ... re-n419877


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CID1990 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:45 pm Ol Geriatric Joe probably just killed both the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the big bill the house hard lefties want

Did it with his big mouth...

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/10/ ... re-n419877


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any time he's loose on his own and not being closely scripted by handlers this is what will happen. There's a reason why family or paid staff are in close proximity to similar functioning people in geriatric and nursing homes, you just never know what they'll do in this condition and you don't want them to injure themselves.

But yes, as for these bills, they may very well not pass at all now - you still need the two Dems in the Senate to go along with anything, including reconciliation, and the Dems are doing their best to piss those two off.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:17 am

CID1990 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:45 pm Ol Geriatric Joe probably just killed both the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the big bill the house hard lefties want

Did it with his big mouth...

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/10/ ... re-n419877


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any time he's loose on his own and not being closely scripted by handlers this is what will happen. There's a reason why family or paid staff are in close proximity to similar functioning people in geriatric and nursing homes, you just never know what they'll do in this condition and you don't want them to injure themselves.

But yes, as for these bills, they may very well not pass at all now - you still need the two Dems in the Senate to go along with anything, including reconciliation, and the Dems are doing their best to piss those two off.

And the lefties challenged Manchin on his houseboat and chased Synema into a restroom. That’ll keep ‘em on the reservation!

Ivytalk wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:16 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:17 am

Any time he's loose on his own and not being closely scripted by handlers this is what will happen. There's a reason why family or paid staff are in close proximity to similar functioning people in geriatric and nursing homes, you just never know what they'll do in this condition and you don't want them to injure themselves.

But yes, as for these bills, they may very well not pass at all now - you still need the two Dems in the Senate to go along with anything, including reconciliation, and the Dems are doing their best to piss those two off.

And the lefties challenged Manchin on his houseboat and chased Synema into a restroom. That’ll keep ‘em on the reservation!

Indeed, and having folks call them things like Biggest Threat to our Democracy and stuff like that isn't going to sway them either. Luckily those folks harassing them so far haven't done anything violent, but as we've seen in the past it just takes one whacko to hear crap like that and decide to act out.