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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:32 am
by CAA Flagship
My OCD doesn't allow me to understand the bottom-right orientation of the red/yellow squares.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:34 am
by andy7171
clenz wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:33 am
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ah. So I was wrong in saying 99% unvaxxed survivability. Its more closer to 99.5%
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:47 am
by SeattleGriz
clenz wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:33 am
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the visual, but that visual doesn't match up with what I'm reading. When hospitalizations for vaxxed and unvaccinated are almost equal, its not making sense.
Might be because I've been looking at UK and Israeli numbers, as they are further along in vaccinating. Also the graphs are not measuring the same thing. One is measuring hospitalization and the other is measuring symptomatic vaxxed COVID.
I'm bringing this up because a UK Health minister last week swapped out percentages and said 60 of hospitalizations were vaxxed and used the "we should see more cases among vaxxed because there is a larger pool", only to say "whoops, I swapped percentages, it's 40%". Got me to trying to understand his numbers.
Thanks again.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:55 am
by kalm
SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:47 am
clenz wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:33 am
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the visual, but that visual doesn't match up with what I'm reading. When hospitalizations for vaxxed and unvaccinated are almost equal, its not making sense.
Might be because I've been looking at UK and Israeli numbers, as they are further along in vaccinating. Also the graphs are not measuring the same thing. One is measuring hospitalization and the other is measuring symptomatic vaxxed COVID.
Thanks again.
It literally acknowledges that in the notes.
We are starting to see two America’s.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:07 am
by 89Hen
kalm wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:55 am
It literally acknowledges that it's a fake chart in the notes.
Exactly
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:08 am
by kalm
89Hen wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:07 am
kalm wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:55 am
It literally acknowledges that it's a fake chart in the notes.
Exactly
What’s fake about it for you?
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:13 am
by UNI88
andy7171 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:34 am
clenz wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:33 am
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ah. So I was wrong in saying 99% unvaxxed survivability. Its more closer to 99.5%
And 99.999% for the vaxxed. I prefer the 99.9999% odds.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:23 am
by ∞∞∞
I'm genuinely curious, but do some of you really listen to YouTube videos and Twitter and Facebook to the point where you ignore your own doctor? Do you guys even see doctors?
When my PCP says to take a vaccine or supplement or drug, I've never questioned them. I'm not a doctor, and I generally like being alive, and that's how it's always worked since I was a kid. They also have a financial incentive to keeping me around, so besides any empathetic motive, it's generally a monetary positive when their patients don't die.
I have no idea what the incentive is for some random guy on YouTube saying "vaccine is bad for you!" Like I don't know this guy, they usually never gave a relevant degree or credential, and in the small chance they do it's expired or haven't practiced in years or they have some weird history.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:39 am
by 89Hen
∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:23 am
When my PCP says to take a vaccine or supplement or drug, I've never questioned them.
Maybe you're speaking in hyperbole or generalities, but if you're not questioning your doc on some things, that's a mistake IMO.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:41 am
by kalm
∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:23 am
I'm genuinely curious, but do some of you really listen to YouTube videos and Twitter and Facebook to the point where you ignore your own doctor? Do you guys even see doctors?
When my PCP says to take a vaccine or supplement or drug, I've never questioned them. I'm not a doctor, and I generally like being alive, and that's how it's always worked since I was a kid. They also have a financial incentive to keeping me around, so besides any empathetic motive, it's generally a monetary positive when their patients don't die.
I have no idea what the incentive is for some random guy on YouTube saying "vaccine is bad for you!" Like I don't know this guy, they usually never gave a relevant degree or credential, and in the small chance they do it's expired or haven't practiced in years or they have some weird history.
It really is astounding to watch sometimes. That said...PCP’s are often just gate keepers for insurance companies and often lack specific knowledge. Question everything is a healthy practice IF the questioning is science based.
FWIW, generational theory predicts the distrust of institutions at the later stages of peak selfishness and crisis periods. That tends to reverse fairly quickly once our society moves on to a springtime period of growth and prosperity.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:47 am
by ∞∞∞
I've never been in a situation where I'm thinking, "this doctor has no idea what they're doing." I've had doctors who were unable to figure out the problem, but they'll understand the next step in trying to find out and what may mitigate the issue in the meanwhile.
But I've genuinely never thought I know better than this person who went to school for 8+ years, done internships and residencies, passed a licensing exam, and years of practical experience.
I agree that you should take responsibility for your health and having questions is an important part, but at least my doc has always had good answers for those questions.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:49 am
by GannonFan
89Hen wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:39 am
∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:23 am
When my PCP says to take a vaccine or supplement or drug, I've never questioned them.
Maybe you're speaking in hyperbole or generalities, but if you're not questioning your doc on some things, that's a mistake IMO.
True. People should be getting the vaccines (barring some medical condition that would make it risky to do so), but you should always take what your doctor says with a grain of salt. Primary care physicians, or physician assistants, aren't necessarily infallible. I'm an engineer, I just don't blindly take what another engineer says because he has a degree and a job. There are plenty of bad engineers out there. Same goes for doctors, and really any profession. Blindly never questioning is a weird position to take.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:51 am
by GannonFan
∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:47 am
I've never been in a situation where I'm thinking, "this doctor has no idea what they're doing." I've had doctors who were unable to figure out the problem, but they'll understand the next step in trying to find out and what may mitigate the issue in the meanwhile.
But I've genuinely never thought I know better than this person who went to school for 8+ years, done internships and residencies, passed a licensing exam, and years of practical experience.
I agree that you should take responsibility for your health and having questions is an important part, but at least my doc has always had good answers for those questions.
You just haven't seen enough doctors then. Between seeing who's cared for my parents as well as what my wife has gone through with neurologists for migraines, I can tell you there are certainly good ones and bad ones.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:53 am
by ∞∞∞
I agree Gannon, but you're an engineer questioning another engineer. That peer-to-peer stuff is healthy and keeps society safe.
You're not a doctor. Doctors shouldn't think they're engineers either.
If you're uncomfortable with your doctor, go to another one or get a second or third opinion, but saying you know better than them is stupid. They might not know the answer, but you don't either. And when 99 doctors say something is safe and one says it's not, that's the same as the engineering scenario you laid out. It's just that for whatever reason, people are questioning the 99 instead of the one.
Do your PCPs, when not knowing the answer, not refer you elsewhere? Like Jesus, maybe healthcare in the rest of America really is that shitty, or maybe I've lucked out, but I've never had my PCPs blindly stumbling around trying to figure out issues. If they can't figure it out, they'll admit their limit and refer me elsewhere. It may take longer, but they do it the right way.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:03 am
by 89Hen
∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:53 am
If you're uncomfortable with your doctor, go to another one or get a second or third opinion, but saying you know better than them is stupid. They might not know the answer...
You're a trainwreck on this one Trip.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:07 am
by GannonFan
∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:53 am
I agree Gannon, but you're an engineer questioning another engineer. That peer-to-peer stuff is healthy and keeps society safe.
You're not a doctor. Doctors shouldn't think they're engineers either.
If you're uncomfortable with your doctor, go to another one or get a second or third opinion, but saying you know better than them is stupid. They might not know the answer, but you don't either. And when 99 doctors say something is safe and one says it's not, that's the same as the engineering scenario you laid out. It's just that for whatever reason, people are questioning the 99 instead of the one.
Do your PCPs, when not knowing the answer, not refer you elsewhere? Like Jesus, maybe healthcare in the rest of America really is that shitty, or maybe I've lucked out, but I've never had my PCPs blindly stumbling around trying to figure out issues. If they can't figure it out, they'll admit their limit and refer me elsewhere. It may take longer, but they do it the right way.
Yeah, I think you just don't realize how "shitty" some healthcare really is. And like I said, not just PCP's either. It's kind of scary when you run into specialists who aren't good either.
None of this really, IMO, relates to the vaccine debate. I think it's pretty clear, get vaccinated, and probably get the booster as soon as they clear it as well. But there's plenty of lackluster doctors out there, no matter how long and extensive the training and licensing path is.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:10 am
by ∞∞∞
Agreed I'm off track, but the point is...listen to your doctor about the vaccines. Don't be a dumbass and listen to the handful of charlatans on YT or wherever. For everyone one of those, there's a few hundred or thousand that want you to be vaccinated.
So it goes both ways when questioning doctors. If you're going to sit there and cite one doctor saying the vaccine sucks (not you GF), you need to question that one doctor too. And the answer to that question are all the others saying it's safe.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:48 am
by 89Hen
I'm not sure to whom you're preaching Trip. I think 96.3% of us here are vaccinated. Even BDK is.
GF is right. My wife had been going to a dermatologist for years and she inquired several times about a bump on her nose. He said it was nothing every time. She finally asked for it to be removed for cosmetic reasons and when they did, they biopsied it and it was basal cell, so she had to go back for the whole treatment.
I've been to Orthos who misdiagnosed.
My daughter has Celiac and her PCP never diagnosed it even though ALL the issues she had growing up were spot on with the symptoms of it. Then when I asked my doctor to test for Celiac in me, he wouldn't do it. They were taking my blood anyway. WTF wouldn't he just put that in since it is hereditary?
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:56 am
by BDKJMU
My sister and my brother have had issues with shitty docs & misdiagnoses. I bet most people have had similar themselves or with family members.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:56 am
by Baldy
89Hen wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:03 am
∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:53 am
If you're uncomfortable with your doctor, go to another one or get a second or third opinion, but saying you know better than them is stupid. They might not know the answer...
You're a trainwreck on this one Trip.
It's obvious that Trip has extremely limited experience in the medical industry.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:43 am
by andy7171
∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:53 am
I agree Gannon, but you're an engineer questioning another engineer. That peer-to-peer stuff is healthy and keeps society safe.
You're not a doctor. Doctors shouldn't think they're engineers either.
If you're uncomfortable with your doctor, go to another one or get a second or third opinion, but saying you know better than them is stupid. They might not know the answer, but you don't either. And when 99 doctors say something is safe and one says it's not, that's the same as the engineering scenario you laid out. It's just that for whatever reason, people are questioning the 99 instead of the one.
Do your PCPs, when not knowing the answer, not refer you elsewhere? Like Jesus, maybe healthcare in the rest of America really is that shitty, or maybe I've lucked out, but I've never had my PCPs blindly stumbling around trying to figure out issues. If they can't figure it out, they'll admit their limit and refer me elsewhere. It may take longer, but they do it the right way.
I'm not an engineer trip and I question engineers all the time.
And who here are we talking about that takes youtube videos opinions over doctors?
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:18 am
by SeattleGriz
Baldy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:56 am
89Hen wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:03 am
You're a trainwreck on this one Trip.
It's obvious that Trip has extremely limited experience in the medical industry.
He's got a valid point though. By and large, a physician should be vastly more informed than those who self diagnose, but we've all seen providers who make mistakes.
Perfect example. I saw my PCP because I was getting winded easily. He told me I was out of shape. What he didn't do, was look at my labs the next day and bring me back for another lab draw because my blood work got cancelled.
The point is that I wasn't out of shape, but had an extremely low hematocrit (14.3). Eventually I was admitted to a hospital where I was given three units of blood and they resolved my issue.
I didn't hold it against him because I really do believe accidents happen and a belief that practicing medicine is an art.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:31 am
by UNI88
SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:18 am
Baldy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:56 am
It's obvious that Trip has extremely limited experience in the medical industry.
He's got a valid point though. By and large, a physician should be vastly more informed than those who self diagnose, but we've all seen providers who make mistakes.
Perfect example. I saw my PCP because I was getting winded easily. He told me I was out of shape. What he didn't do, was look at my labs the next day and bring me back for another lab draw because my blood work got cancelled.
The point is that I wasn't out of shape, but had an extremely low hematocrit (14.3). Eventually I was admitted to a hospital where I was given three units of blood and they resolved my issue.
I didn't hold it against him because I really do believe accidents happen and a belief that practicing medicine is an art.
This is a reasonable approach.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:50 am
by SeattleGriz
UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:31 am
SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:18 am
He's got a valid point though. By and large, a physician should be vastly more informed than those who self diagnose, but we've all seen providers who make mistakes.
Perfect example. I saw my PCP because I was getting winded easily. He told me I was out of shape. What he didn't do, was look at my labs the next day and bring me back for another lab draw because my blood work got cancelled.
The point is that I wasn't out of shape, but had an extremely low hematocrit (14.3). Eventually I was admitted to a hospital where I was given three units of blood and they resolved my issue.
I didn't hold it against him because I really do believe accidents happen and a belief that practicing medicine is an art.
This is a reasonable approach.
Being a laboratory sales rep in the past teaches you shit happens...often!
Worst conversation you could have was when a provider would call you to their practice to discuss some issue. The doctor could almost always pinpoint the issue with the lab. You'd go back to investigate and find they were spot on.
Nothing worse than broadcasting you didn't follow process, or your process was so bad, it allowed the employee to screw up.
As a salesperson who lost revenue due to a screw up out of your control, it was maddening. Good thing the Regional Sales Manager was a money grubbing SOB, so they would raise hell with the Lab Manager and get the issue resolved.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:56 pm
by Gil Dobie
∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:10 am
Agreed I'm off track, but the point is...listen to your doctor about the vaccines. Don't be a dumbass and listen to the handful of charlatans on YT or wherever. For everyone one of those, there's a few hundred or thousand that want you to be vaccinated.
So it goes both ways when questioning doctors. If you're going to sit there and cite one doctor saying the vaccine sucks (not you GF), you need to question that one doctor too. And the answer to that question are all the others saying it's safe.
You are correct, if you have a good Doc, I would trust them. I've had 8 surgeries, and go to the Doc on a regular basis and I also do a yearly preventative heart visit with another Dr. That Dr was recommended by my personal Doc. When I have something that looks funny on my skin, the Doc refers me to a Dermatologist that he knows is a good one, thru the medical industry connections. He's not just blindly sending me to a fly by night place that is in the medical industry to manufacture money. These guys network and know who's good and who's bad. If you don't like or trust a Dr, find one that you trust. If you are concerned about their diagnosis, tell them, or get a second opinion. Unlike these youtube minute clinics, there are a lot of great physicians out there that are in the business of helping people stay healthy.
