Has there been ANY study that has shown that masks actually helped? Because all the anecdotal evidence (sorry JSO, maybe the wrong word here) shows that they really haven't made much of an impact....UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 11:21 amCovid was more contagious and more deadly than the flu.
Hoaxers seem to believe that the flu happened as normal and that flu deaths were just counted as Covid deaths, inflating the number. It's seems like common sense to me that flu cases and deaths were lower because of masks, social distancing, no school, etc. but who wants to let common sense get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
Coronavirus COVID-19
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Here’s a really good summary of many off these issues. Not to dismiss the importance of innovation and patent protection, but pardon me if I don’t feel sorry for big pharma or their bought and paid for development and IP support.UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 4:21 pmIs this a "they didn't build that" attempt to minimize credit for the vaccine makers?kalm wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 10:47 am
We’re actually further down that road than just one year. But I know...politics and such. Yawn.
https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-car ... 9-vaccines
And what does it have to do with Merkel being right when she criticizes Trump but wrong when she defends intellectual property rights?
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i ... 0521439937
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
I have the attention span of a gnat. That podcast is unlistenable.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
One quick google search and I found these and moreAZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 11:12 amHas there been ANY study that has shown that masks actually helped? Because all the anecdotal evidence (sorry JSO, maybe the wrong word here) shows that they really haven't made much of an impact....UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 11:21 am
Covid was more contagious and more deadly than the flu.
Hoaxers seem to believe that the flu happened as normal and that flu deaths were just counted as Covid deaths, inflating the number. It's seems like common sense to me that flu cases and deaths were lower because of masks, social distancing, no school, etc. but who wants to let common sense get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
Kansas Mandate Link
The CDC and the Kansas Department of Health and Environment analyzed trends in county-level cases before the mandate went into effect and two months afterward. Though rates were considerably higher in the 24 counties that required masks, over the two-month study period they brought the growth of cases under control and even reduced them. The counties that didn't require masks continued to see their cases increase.
Hartford Healthcare Link
A study released this week in Health Affairs, a peer-reviewed healthcare journal, found that masks prevented as many as 230,000 to 450,000 COVID-19 cases by May 22 in the 15 states, including Connecticut, and the District of Columbia that adopted mask mandates early in the pandemic. The fast-track version of the study, “Community Use Of Face Masks And COVID-19: Evidence From A Natural Experiment Of State Mandates In The United States,” appeared in the journal June 16 ahead of the final, accepted version.
Yet they said the number of potential cases averted, up to 450,000, should be viewed cautiously because there was no way to measure compliance with, or enforcement of, the mask mandate in each state.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Now compare California and Florida. Because they can in no way prove a causal relationship between wearing masks and the shape/magnitude of the case curves.Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 12:36 pmOne quick google search and I found these and more
Kansas Mandate Link
The CDC and the Kansas Department of Health and Environment analyzed trends in county-level cases before the mandate went into effect and two months afterward. Though rates were considerably higher in the 24 counties that required masks, over the two-month study period they brought the growth of cases under control and even reduced them. The counties that didn't require masks continued to see their cases increase.
Hartford Healthcare Link
A study released this week in Health Affairs, a peer-reviewed healthcare journal, found that masks prevented as many as 230,000 to 450,000 COVID-19 cases by May 22 in the 15 states, including Connecticut, and the District of Columbia that adopted mask mandates early in the pandemic. The fast-track version of the study, “Community Use Of Face Masks And COVID-19: Evidence From A Natural Experiment Of State Mandates In The United States,” appeared in the journal June 16 ahead of the final, accepted version.
Yet they said the number of potential cases averted, up to 450,000, should be viewed cautiously because there was no way to measure compliance with, or enforcement of, the mask mandate in each state.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
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"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
40 million people versus 21 million people. Florida is still producing more cases per day than California.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 12:51 pmNow compare California and Florida. Because they can in no way prove a causal relationship between wearing masks and the shape/magnitude of the case curves.Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 12:36 pm
One quick google search and I found these and more
Kansas Mandate Link
The CDC and the Kansas Department of Health and Environment analyzed trends in county-level cases before the mandate went into effect and two months afterward. Though rates were considerably higher in the 24 counties that required masks, over the two-month study period they brought the growth of cases under control and even reduced them. The counties that didn't require masks continued to see their cases increase.
Hartford Healthcare Link
A study released this week in Health Affairs, a peer-reviewed healthcare journal, found that masks prevented as many as 230,000 to 450,000 COVID-19 cases by May 22 in the 15 states, including Connecticut, and the District of Columbia that adopted mask mandates early in the pandemic. The fast-track version of the study, “Community Use Of Face Masks And COVID-19: Evidence From A Natural Experiment Of State Mandates In The United States,” appeared in the journal June 16 ahead of the final, accepted version.
Yet they said the number of potential cases averted, up to 450,000, should be viewed cautiously because there was no way to measure compliance with, or enforcement of, the mask mandate in each state.
Both peaked in early January.
7 day moving average is 48 deaths for California, 64 deaths per day in Florida.
New cases, 7 day moving average 1747 for California, 3690 for Florida
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Whoops!Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:01 pm40 million people versus 21 million people. Florida is still producing more cases per day than California.
Both peaked in early January.
7 day moving average is 48 deaths for California, 64 deaths per day in Florida.
New cases, 7 day moving average 1747 for California, 3690 for Florida
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
CA Deaths/Million: 1,578kalm wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:06 pmWhoops!Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:01 pm
40 million people versus 21 million people. Florida is still producing more cases per day than California.
Both peaked in early January.
7 day moving average is 48 deaths for California, 64 deaths per day in Florida.
New cases, 7 day moving average 1747 for California, 3690 for Florida
FL Deaths/Million: 1,671
TX Deaths/Million: 1,767
Almost statistically insignificant.
And for comparison purposes, two of the most draconian shutdown states:
NY Deaths/million: 2,731
NJ Deaths/million: 2,914
There's no "whoops" there. If you've been to both states (FL, CA) recently (I have) you see the incredible difference in their economies because of the way they handled the virus. Literally the ONLY thing holding back FL is the cruise lines continuing to be shut down. Again, there's no proof of a causal relationship between mask wearing and the virus curves. There IS proof, however, that the economic destruction wrought by the shutdowns is real, and in many cases permanent and in most cases, more damaging.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
CA is coming down from the peak faster than Florida, and so is New York and Jersey. All their 7 day averages are coming down faster than Florida.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:56 pmCA Deaths/Million: 1,578
FL Deaths/Million: 1,671
TX Deaths/Million: 1,767
Almost statistically insignificant.
And for comparison purposes, two of the most draconian shutdown states:
NY Deaths/million: 2,731
NJ Deaths/million: 2,914
There's no "whoops" there. If you've been to both states (FL, CA) recently (I have) you see the incredible difference in their economies because of the way they handled the virus. Literally the ONLY thing holding back FL is the cruise lines continuing to be shut down. Again, there's no proof of a causal relationship between mask wearing and the virus curves. There IS proof, however, that the economic destruction wrought by the shutdowns is real, and in many cases permanent and in most cases, more damaging.
Last edited by Gil Dobie on Wed May 12, 2021 2:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Well they are coming down from a MUCH higher number, so yeah. I would fucking hope so.Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 2:07 pmCA is coming down from the peak faster than Florida, and so is New York and Jersey. All their 7 day averages are coming down faster than Florida.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:56 pm
CA Deaths/Million: 1,578
FL Deaths/Million: 1,671
TX Deaths/Million: 1,767
Almost statistically insignificant.
And for comparison purposes, two of the most draconian shutdown states:
NY Deaths/million: 2,731
NJ Deaths/million: 2,914
There's no "whoops" there. If you've been to both states (FL, CA) recently (I have) you see the incredible difference in their economies because of the way they handled the virus. Literally the ONLY thing holding back FL is the cruise lines continuing to be shut down. Again, there's no proof of a causal relationship between mask wearing and the virus curves. There IS proof, however, that the economic destruction wrought by the shutdowns is real, and in many cases permanent and in most cases, more damaging.
Championing the success of the two worst performing states in the country doesn't help your case.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Their 7 day averages are below Florida's. You asked about them and I replied.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Yeah..what’s a few 10 thousand deaths anyway?AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:56 pmCA Deaths/Million: 1,578
FL Deaths/Million: 1,671
TX Deaths/Million: 1,767
Almost statistically insignificant.
And for comparison purposes, two of the most draconian shutdown states:
NY Deaths/million: 2,731
NJ Deaths/million: 2,914
There's no "whoops" there. If you've been to both states (FL, CA) recently (I have) you see the incredible difference in their economies because of the way they handled the virus. Literally the ONLY thing holding back FL is the cruise lines continuing to be shut down. Again, there's no proof of a causal relationship between mask wearing and the virus curves. There IS proof, however, that the economic destruction wrought by the shutdowns is real, and in many cases permanent and in most cases, more damaging.
BTW since were throwing around loose economic numbers, Cali is operating at a surplus, and Seattle’s economy is one of the best coming out of this.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
No it's the mask fault for the so called economic damage?kalm wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 2:18 pmYeah..what’s a few 10 thousand deaths anyway?AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:56 pm
CA Deaths/Million: 1,578
FL Deaths/Million: 1,671
TX Deaths/Million: 1,767
Almost statistically insignificant.
And for comparison purposes, two of the most draconian shutdown states:
NY Deaths/million: 2,731
NJ Deaths/million: 2,914
There's no "whoops" there. If you've been to both states (FL, CA) recently (I have) you see the incredible difference in their economies because of the way they handled the virus. Literally the ONLY thing holding back FL is the cruise lines continuing to be shut down. Again, there's no proof of a causal relationship between mask wearing and the virus curves. There IS proof, however, that the economic destruction wrought by the shutdowns is real, and in many cases permanent and in most cases, more damaging.
BTW since were throwing around loose economic numbers, Cali is operating at a surplus, and Seattle’s economy is one of the best coming out of this.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
A few 10,000's? Hardly.kalm wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 2:18 pmYeah..what’s a few 10 thousand deaths anyway?AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:56 pm
CA Deaths/Million: 1,578
FL Deaths/Million: 1,671
TX Deaths/Million: 1,767
Almost statistically insignificant.
And for comparison purposes, two of the most draconian shutdown states:
NY Deaths/million: 2,731
NJ Deaths/million: 2,914
There's no "whoops" there. If you've been to both states (FL, CA) recently (I have) you see the incredible difference in their economies because of the way they handled the virus. Literally the ONLY thing holding back FL is the cruise lines continuing to be shut down. Again, there's no proof of a causal relationship between mask wearing and the virus curves. There IS proof, however, that the economic destruction wrought by the shutdowns is real, and in many cases permanent and in most cases, more damaging.
BTW since were throwing around loose economic numbers, Cali is operating at a surplus, and Seattle’s economy is one of the best coming out of this.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Gil, are you honestly questioning whether there was catastrophic economic damage?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
yes. You did. And that is like saying Obama did a better job with unemployment because he started at a higher number than Trump.
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"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
I'm saying we were talking mask and you are trying to change the subject to lockdowns and the economy.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
And I'm saying you can't discuss masks in a vacuum. Nor can you prove their efficacy.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
No, that's not what I'm saying. Those states had higher totals, but the current 7-day averages for cases and deaths are below Florida's. Florida's numbers are going down slower than states that had mask mandates.
April 12, Florida 48 deaths per day, 7 day average, today 64
April 12, California 98, 7 day average, today 48
Both peaked in January.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Cali has a surplus because of strong market returns - Thank You Trump!kalm wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 2:18 pmYeah..what’s a few 10 thousand deaths anyway?AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:56 pm
CA Deaths/Million: 1,578
FL Deaths/Million: 1,671
TX Deaths/Million: 1,767
Almost statistically insignificant.
And for comparison purposes, two of the most draconian shutdown states:
NY Deaths/million: 2,731
NJ Deaths/million: 2,914
There's no "whoops" there. If you've been to both states (FL, CA) recently (I have) you see the incredible difference in their economies because of the way they handled the virus. Literally the ONLY thing holding back FL is the cruise lines continuing to be shut down. Again, there's no proof of a causal relationship between mask wearing and the virus curves. There IS proof, however, that the economic destruction wrought by the shutdowns is real, and in many cases permanent and in most cases, more damaging.
BTW since were throwing around loose economic numbers, Cali is operating at a surplus, and Seattle’s economy is one of the best coming out of this.
Is Seattle doing well because of the restrictions or is it doing well because it's leading industries weren't as impacted by the pandemic and a larger portion of its labor force was able to work from home than other cities?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
That’s kind of the point. Hence my comment if “loose economic indicators”. Tie it in to all the variables of pandemic progression and the facts get muddied.UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 3:33 pmCali has a surplus because of strong market returns - Thank You Trump!
Is Seattle doing well because of the restrictions or is it doing well because it's leading industries weren't as impacted by the pandemic and a larger portion of its labor force was able to work from home than other cities?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Minnesota suicides dropped in 2020.
link
The report shows 723 Minnesotans died by suicide in 2020, which is down from the record-high 830 suicide deaths in Minnesota in 2019.
“It’s a good sign to see that number drop, but 723 preventable deaths are 723 too many,” MDH Commissioner Jan Malcolm said in Wednesday's news release. “We are not yet sure what impacts the COVID-19 pandemic had on this trend, but it is clear that we must continue to support people and communities to address the causes of suicide.”
link
The report shows 723 Minnesotans died by suicide in 2020, which is down from the record-high 830 suicide deaths in Minnesota in 2019.
“It’s a good sign to see that number drop, but 723 preventable deaths are 723 too many,” MDH Commissioner Jan Malcolm said in Wednesday's news release. “We are not yet sure what impacts the COVID-19 pandemic had on this trend, but it is clear that we must continue to support people and communities to address the causes of suicide.”
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Had plenty.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Most of them were really just the flu.Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 4:11 am Minnesota suicides dropped in 2020.
link
The report shows 723 Minnesotans died by suicide in 2020, which is down from the record-high 830 suicide deaths in Minnesota in 2019.
“It’s a good sign to see that number drop, but 723 preventable deaths are 723 too many,” MDH Commissioner Jan Malcolm said in Wednesday's news release. “We are not yet sure what impacts the COVID-19 pandemic had on this trend, but it is clear that we must continue to support people and communities to address the causes of suicide.”
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Aren't suicide statistics muddied just like economic numbers? Do dropping suicide numbers prove that pandemic lockdowns and restrictions didn't impact mental health? Or do they prove nothing because we don't know how much of the drop is due to concerted efforts to raise awareness of mental health issues and encourage people to reach out if they needed help?kalm wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:32 amMost of them were really just the flu.Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 4:11 am Minnesota suicides dropped in 2020.
link
The report shows 723 Minnesotans died by suicide in 2020, which is down from the record-high 830 suicide deaths in Minnesota in 2019.
“It’s a good sign to see that number drop, but 723 preventable deaths are 723 too many,” MDH Commissioner Jan Malcolm said in Wednesday's news release. “We are not yet sure what impacts the COVID-19 pandemic had on this trend, but it is clear that we must continue to support people and communities to address the causes of suicide.”
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm