Coronavirus COVID-19

Political discussions
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19949
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

Ibanez wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:23 am I listen to "Daily Drive" on Spotify each mornings. It's a blend of music and news. I typically skip the WaPo but today I listened.

Apparently, the wealthier countries are flexing their inequality by creating the COVID vaccine and then providing it to the poorer nations. Somehow, our ability to create a vaccine over some poorer country has created a "vaccine bias" and "vaccine inequality."

You can't make this crap up.
Vaccine privilege is real!
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
User avatar
89Hen
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 39223
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:13 pm
I am a fan of: High Horses
A.K.A.: The Almighty Arbiter

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by 89Hen »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:28 am Vaccine privilege is real!
:nod:

Image
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 27895
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by BDKJMU »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:28 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:23 am I listen to "Daily Drive" on Spotify each mornings. It's a blend of music and news. I typically skip the WaPo but today I listened.

Apparently, the wealthier countries are flexing their inequality by creating the COVID vaccine and then providing it to the poorer nations. Somehow, our ability to create a vaccine over some poorer country has created a "vaccine bias" and "vaccine inequality."

You can't make this crap up.
Vaccine privilege is real!
Vaccination rates in the US is highest for (non Hispanic) whites, is lagging for blacks and Hispanics. The vaccine must be racist...
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions.
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 27895
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by BDKJMU »

89Hen wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:30 am
UNI88 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:28 am Vaccine privilege is real!
:nod:

:lol:
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions.
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by CID1990 »

SeattleGriz wrote:
CID1990 wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:14 pm The quote function isnt working on my phone for some reason.

This reply is for SG

Viruses do not behave that way universally. Just because you have had a virus does not mean you have gained more immunity compared to if you had a vaccination. mRNA vaccines force the immune system to target a very narrowly focused part of the receptor proteins. Actually having the virus does not do this.

Coronaviruses are a prime example - this is why the is little to zero known conferred immunity to the common cold, which is also caused by a coronavirus.

Declaring that acquired immunity is somehow > than a vaccine has zero basis in scientific fact

You are using logic to describe biological process - that is a fatal flaw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Glad someone on this board is pushing back!

In regards to your statement there is zero scientific basis, I have to disagree. If you perform any search on natural immunity vs vaccination and sort results before COVID, the hits are littered with statements from Immunologists and Public Health officials about how natural immunity is better than vaccination...but you run the risk of the disease beating the crap out of you to get natural immunity. I'm not worried about that with COVID.

As to the common cold, there are other families besides Coronavirus, like Rhinovirus, etc and we have around 200 different versions of the cold, so that in my opinion is the largest reason we can't have a universal cold vaccine, plus colds mostly don't tax the immune system causing a huge immune response.

Lastly, we have three studies...albeit preprint, which means they haven't been peer reviewed.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... onses.aspx
Their findings reveal that, unlike vaccination, natural SARS-CoV-2 infection is associated with a robust interferon response together with an induction of cytotoxic gene expression in peripheral blood lymphocytes
Interferon response and cytotoxic gene expression (perforin plus other factors) are huge.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... ction.aspx
There was a difference between the antibodies elicited by natural infection compared to that from the vaccine. Since the vaccine does not have the nucleocapsid protein, there are no antibodies against this in the vaccine-induced antibodies. However, antibodies against nucleocapsid were seen in natural infection, suggesting this could be a biomarker for natural infection.
Nothing spectacular here, but I'm of the belief working through a virus naturally and having the whole virus leads to many benefits we haven't discovered.

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/2 ... ssion=true
Specifically, of all infections during the study period, 99.3% occurred in participants who were not infected previously and remained unvaccinated. In contrast, only 0.7% of infections occurred in participants who were not previously infected but were currently vaccinated.

Importantly, not a single incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection was observed in previously infected participants with or without vaccination.
You catch that bolded part? Of the 55,000 people in the study, not a one was someone with natural immunity. All were from the vaccinated group. 55k x .07 = 3850

Not to mention the studies coming out showing SAR1 infected still have immunity 17 years later.

I have no beef with the vaccine, just think if you've had COVID, it's better than the vaccine. By the way, I am current on all my vaccines and so are my children.
I will see your long winded word salad which you do not understand, and raise you this (simply put):

Titers for SARS Cov-2 antibodies are higher for mRNA vaccinated persons than they are for COVID survivors. In literally every case.

That is a simple fact, easily found, and does not require a forest of poorly interpreted salad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 16534
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

CID1990 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:39 am
SeattleGriz wrote:
Glad someone on this board is pushing back!

In regards to your statement there is zero scientific basis, I have to disagree. If you perform any search on natural immunity vs vaccination and sort results before COVID, the hits are littered with statements from Immunologists and Public Health officials about how natural immunity is better than vaccination...but you run the risk of the disease beating the crap out of you to get natural immunity. I'm not worried about that with COVID.

As to the common cold, there are other families besides Coronavirus, like Rhinovirus, etc and we have around 200 different versions of the cold, so that in my opinion is the largest reason we can't have a universal cold vaccine, plus colds mostly don't tax the immune system causing a huge immune response.

Lastly, we have three studies...albeit preprint, which means they haven't been peer reviewed.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... onses.aspx



Interferon response and cytotoxic gene expression (perforin plus other factors) are huge.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... ction.aspx



Nothing spectacular here, but I'm of the belief working through a virus naturally and having the whole virus leads to many benefits we haven't discovered.

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/2 ... ssion=true



You catch that bolded part? Of the 55,000 people in the study, not a one was someone with natural immunity. All were from the vaccinated group. 55k x .07 = 3850

Not to mention the studies coming out showing SAR1 infected still have immunity 17 years later.

I have no beef with the vaccine, just think if you've had COVID, it's better than the vaccine. By the way, I am current on all my vaccines and so are my children.
I will see your long winded word salad which you do not understand, and raise you this (simply put):

Titers for SARS Cov-2 antibodies are higher for mRNA vaccinated persons than they are for COVID survivors. In literally every case.

That is a simple fact, easily found, and does not require a forest of poorly interpreted salad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am familiar with that, as the vaccine was designed just for that purpose...to piss the immune system off so it mounts a strong response. You see the same thing with natural immunity when someone had a really bad case.

You've now cited ONE reason why you feel the vaccine provides better immunity, but offer no proof it actually is better. I've at least provided studies as to why I believe natural immunity is more comprehensive and better.
Last edited by SeattleGriz on Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by AZGrizFan »

:popcorn: :popcorn:
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 16534
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:54 am :popcorn: :popcorn:
:lol:

It's good to have this discussion. Notice the attacks on sources provided. Already resorting to logical fallacies. Not a good sign.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SDHornet »

BDKJMU wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:04 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:04 pm

1) We do not know that there was a Chinese lab leak to cover up. People are WAY jumping to conclusions because of a report that some lab workers got sick. A lot of other nonsense going around too like that Quay guy saying the virus has a genetic characteristic that is unlikely for a coronavirus that evolved naturally when people who actually study coronaviruses say otherwise. Just all kinds of crap flying around right now.

2) There is absolutely nothing wrong with that letter. Zuckerberg proposed a "hub" to "make sure people can get authoritative information from reliable sources" and encourage people to practice social distancing while providing some ideas about doing it. THE HORROR.
If youu don‘t think the CPC knows exactly what happened then I‘ve got some oceanfront property in AZ to sell you. If the CPC had the proof it was Zoonotic they would have released it long ago. That leaves only a lab leak. They’ll try to keep that evidence from ever coming out because if how devastating it would be to China in the eyes of the world.
JSO is conveniently forgetting the "bat soup" narrative that was pushed as an explanation of the China Virus.
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SDHornet »

Did SG just jelly Cid?!?

WTF is going on here!
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59295
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:17 am
BDKJMU wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:04 pm
If youu don‘t think the CPC knows exactly what happened then I‘ve got some oceanfront property in AZ to sell you. If the CPC had the proof it was Zoonotic they would have released it long ago. That leaves only a lab leak. They’ll try to keep that evidence from ever coming out because if how devastating it would be to China in the eyes of the world.
JSO is conveniently forgetting the "bat soup" narrative that was pushed as an explanation of the China Virus.
It’s still mostly just speculation driven by social media. It may end up being partially or completely true but so far it’s short on actual facts and long on political confirmation bias.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SDHornet »

kalm wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:23 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:17 am

JSO is conveniently forgetting the "bat soup" narrative that was pushed as an explanation of the China Virus.
It’s still mostly just speculation driven by social media. It may end up being partially or completely true but so far it’s short on actual facts and long on political confirmation bias.
Naw if this came from a bat at a wet market or a soup or some other random place we would have heard about it by now. There's a reason the Chicoms didn't let anyone in to do any serious investigations of the origin, and it wasn't to cover up a wet market.
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19949
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:23 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:17 am
JSO is conveniently forgetting the "bat soup" narrative that was pushed as an explanation of the China Virus.
It’s still mostly just speculation driven by social media. It may end up being partially or completely true but so far it’s short on actual facts and long on political confirmation bias.
Are you talking about the lab leak theory or the zoonotic theory? Change "social media" to "CCP sycophants in the MSM and government" and your statement applies to zoonotic.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59295
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:09 am
kalm wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:23 am

It’s still mostly just speculation driven by social media. It may end up being partially or completely true but so far it’s short on actual facts and long on political confirmation bias.
Are you talking about the lab leak theory or the zoonotic theory? Change "social media" to "CCP sycophants in the MSM and government" and your statement applies to zoonotic.
Both. Anything is possible including your comments regarding sycophants and the msm, but that’s kind of my point. Politicization creates a ton of useless noise.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by CID1990 »

SeattleGriz wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:54 am :popcorn: :popcorn:
:lol:

It's good to have this discussion. Notice the attacks on sources provided. Already resorting to logical fallacies. Not a good sign.
Feel free to point out the fallacious logic.

I’m not sure what you don’t understand about viral antibodies:

they are those wee little magical things that *actually* stop viruses from multiplying inside the cells of your body

In the world of science and medicine that’s what is called “immunity”. It is really that simple.

More antibodies = more immunity

If you know of examples where some virus has not followed this very elementary biological maxim, I’ll be happy to entertain them. But specifics, please. I noticed in your last two replies you started to retreat into a bit of that klam-like vagueness so you can later claim you said nothing of the sort.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19949
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:26 am
UNI88 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:09 am
Are you talking about the lab leak theory or the zoonotic theory? Change "social media" to "CCP sycophants in the MSM and government" and your statement applies to zoonotic.
Both. Anything is possible including your comments regarding sycophants and the msm, but that’s kind of my point. Politicization creates a ton of useless noise.
You're right. The problem is that the politicization happened by both sides. The anti-Trumpers and the CCP sycophants in the MSM and government beat down and dismissed the lab leak theory because Trump talked about it. That just fed the conspiracy theorists who don't trust the "deep state" and MSM anyway. People are criticizing them for being "short on actual facts and long on political confirmation bias" when they didn't do the same when the zoonotic theory was presented as truth just over a year ago. Political bias and agenda, not scientific research is driving perspective and policy.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
User avatar
Gil Dobie
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 30939
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:45 pm
I am a fan of: Norse Dakota State
Location: Historic Leduc Estate

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

Stole this one from Cleets.

Image
Image
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by CID1990 »

Gil Dobie wrote:Stole this one from Cleets.

Image
That lady is an actual medical doctor

:ohno:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
User avatar
Gil Dobie
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 30939
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:45 pm
I am a fan of: Norse Dakota State
Location: Historic Leduc Estate

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

My Dr confirmed today that there is pretty good evidence Covid was here before January 2020. He thinks my wife had it in November/December of 2019, after a trip to California. I was pretty sick, for a shorter time too. That's my conspiracy and I'm sticking to it.
Image
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SDHornet »

Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:23 pm My Dr confirmed today that there is pretty good evidence Covid was here before January 2020. He thinks my wife had it in November/December of 2019, after a trip to California. I was pretty sick, for a shorter time too. That's my conspiracy and I'm sticking to it.
If your symptoms included an itchy crotch, I have some bad news about your wife's' trip to CA. :?
User avatar
Gil Dobie
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 30939
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:45 pm
I am a fan of: Norse Dakota State
Location: Historic Leduc Estate

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:27 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:23 pm My Dr confirmed today that there is pretty good evidence Covid was here before January 2020. He thinks my wife had it in November/December of 2019, after a trip to California. I was pretty sick, for a shorter time too. That's my conspiracy and I'm sticking to it.
If your symptoms included an itchy crotch, I have some bad news about your wife's' trip to CA. :?
Nope, I not going to get into family bashing on here, not a good idea.
Image
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SDHornet »

Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:42 pm
SDHornet wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:27 pm

If your symptoms included an itchy crotch, I have some bad news about your wife's' trip to CA. :?
Nope, I not going to get into family bashing on here, not a good idea.
It was a joke Gil.
User avatar
Gil Dobie
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 30939
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:45 pm
I am a fan of: Norse Dakota State
Location: Historic Leduc Estate

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:15 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:42 pm

Nope, I not going to get into family bashing on here, not a good idea.
It was a joke Gil.
I know, didn't want to comeback, family related. Some other dick I would.
Image
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19443
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SDHornet »

Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:18 pm
SDHornet wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:15 pm

It was a joke Gil.
I know, didn't want to comeback, family related. Some other dick I would.
Fair enough.
User avatar
AZGrizFan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59959
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
Location: Just to the right of center

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by AZGrizFan »

Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:23 pm My Dr confirmed today that there is pretty good evidence Covid was here before January 2020. He thinks my wife had it in November/December of 2019, after a trip to California. I was pretty sick, for a shorter time too. That's my conspiracy and I'm sticking to it.
That’s no conspiracy theory. I’m positive I caught it while on a cruise in December of 2019.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Image
Post Reply