Coronavirus COVID-19

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

JohnStOnge wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:23 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:00 pm

7-day moving average is 275. More fast and loose with facts.
I don't know when the guy was being videoed when he talked about the number of deaths per day. But as I type the Worldometers data indicate that there were 2,270 USA deaths during the past 7 days and 3,195 during the 7 day period before that. The daily averages for those two periods would be 324 and 456.
As to all your other postings. Everyone understands the vaccines are blameless in this discussion. What everyone is upset over is the constant changing of facts by the CDC and subsequent vaccine mandate that has proven to be ineffective. When people criticize, it's directed at the people who got up on their high horse, only to be shown they really didn't know what they were talking about, in addition to the outright data crimes committed.

Our difference is you believe in zero Covid if we simply would have done x and then it's followed by a change of if we would only do y. A never ending moving of the goalposts.

Me, I have been saying from the start that you cannot vaccinate your way out of a pandemic with a leaky vaccine. Praise be to God the virus has tamed down, because a large majority of the population had their immunity imprinted with the original version and you now see Omicron tearing through that population.

Now we wait and see the long term effects of methylpseudouridine and a G rich mRNA strand that was supposed to immediately be removed, but has been shown to linger for up to, and possibly longer, than 60 days
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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SeattleGriz wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:47 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:08 pm

He wrote "vast majority of people noted as Covid deaths are fully vaccinate and fully boosted." That's 39%.

The people that know never told us that the vaccines were 100% effective. Early on they were talking about somewhere around 93 or 94% efficacy. They always recognized the possibility that the vaccines might not be as effective if new variants arose. They were correct in saying, early on, that you would be far less likely to spread the disease if you were fully vaccinated. That changed some with the Delta variant, though I do think a person is less likely to end up transmitting the disease if they get vaccinated. They never said the risk of hospitalization was zero if you were vaccinated.

They said the risk of serious consequences is much lower if you are vaccinated. They are still saying that because it is truth.

The basic "narrative" in terms of what the recommendation is hasn't changed. The recommendation is still to get up to date on vaccination. And it is a good recommendation.
Wrong. Look at the tweet AND the San Diego stats. He repeated the two categories. 66%. If we want to be fully accurate, they need to pull out those who never got a shot shot from those who only got one shot, but are listed as 'not fully vaccinated' as well.
He wrote "...the vast majority of people noted as COVID deaths are fully vaccinated and fully boosted."

He did not write "...fully vaccinated and/or fully boosted."

The column that presents the numbers for people fully vaccinated and fully boosted ...or at least fully vaccinated and boosted...is the column headed "Fully Vaccinated + Boosted."
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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SeattleGriz wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:49 am
JohnStOnge wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:23 pm

I don't know when the guy was being videoed when he talked about the number of deaths per day. But as I type the Worldometers data indicate that there were 2,270 USA deaths during the past 7 days and 3,195 during the 7 day period before that. The daily averages for those two periods would be 324 and 456.
As to all your other postings. Everyone understands the vaccines are blameless in this discussion. What everyone is upset over is the constant changing of facts by the CDC and subsequent vaccine mandate that has proven to be ineffective. When people criticize, it's directed at the people who got up on their high horse, only to be shown they really didn't know what they were talking about, in addition to the outright data crimes committed.

Our difference is you believe in zero Covid if we simply would have done x and then it's followed by a change of if we would only do y. A never ending moving of the goalposts.

Me, I have been saying from the start that you cannot vaccinate your way out of a pandemic with a leaky vaccine. Praise be to God the virus has tamed down, because a large majority of the population had their immunity imprinted with the original version and you now see Omicron tearing through that population.

Now we wait and see the long term effects of methylpseudouridine and a G rich mRNA strand that was supposed to immediately be removed, but has been shown to linger for up to, and possibly longer, than 60 days
How can you say the vaccine mandate was ineffective when it was never implemented? How can you say that following the vaccine recommendations does not work when only 32% of the population is up to date on vaccination?

This has been going on from the start. The same people who attack vaccination as a strategy to control the epidemic do everything they can to discourage vaccination then say 'SEE, it doesn't work" when we end up with a vaccination rate that has no chance to work.

BTW, i see that the BA4 and BA5 subvariants originated in a country with a very low vaccination rate. Once again, a problematic variant arises in a place where there is a very low vaccination rate.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:32 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:47 pm

Wrong. Look at the tweet AND the San Diego stats. He repeated the two categories. 66%. If we want to be fully accurate, they need to pull out those who never got a shot shot from those who only got one shot, but are listed as 'not fully vaccinated' as well.
He wrote "...the vast majority of people noted as COVID deaths are fully vaccinated and fully boosted."

He did not write "...fully vaccinated and/or fully boosted."

The column that presents the numbers for people fully vaccinated and fully boosted ...or at least fully vaccinated and boosted...is the column headed "Fully Vaccinated + Boosted."
You do know there is no edit feature on Twitter don't you? It's really obvious he meant 66%. Don't make me start a poll.

You are using this silly argument to dodge the fact that 66% of hospitalizations and deaths are in the group that has 2 or more shots and has been there for a long time. Game is over. COVID won. It cleaned out the unvaccinated and now is working through the vaxxed.

Tons of people acted like jackasses when the outcome was always going to be the same.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:44 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:49 am

As to all your other postings. Everyone understands the vaccines are blameless in this discussion. What everyone is upset over is the constant changing of facts by the CDC and subsequent vaccine mandate that has proven to be ineffective. When people criticize, it's directed at the people who got up on their high horse, only to be shown they really didn't know what they were talking about, in addition to the outright data crimes committed.

Our difference is you believe in zero Covid if we simply would have done x and then it's followed by a change of if we would only do y. A never ending moving of the goalposts.

Me, I have been saying from the start that you cannot vaccinate your way out of a pandemic with a leaky vaccine. Praise be to God the virus has tamed down, because a large majority of the population had their immunity imprinted with the original version and you now see Omicron tearing through that population.

Now we wait and see the long term effects of methylpseudouridine and a G rich mRNA strand that was supposed to immediately be removed, but has been shown to linger for up to, and possibly longer, than 60 days
How can you say the vaccine mandate was ineffective when it was never implemented? How can you say that following the vaccine recommendations does not work when only 32% of the population is up to date on vaccination?

This has been going on from the start. The same people who attack vaccination as a strategy to control the epidemic do everything they can to discourage vaccination then say 'SEE, it doesn't work" when we end up with a vaccination rate that has no chance to work.

BTW, i see that the BA4 and BA5 subvariants originated in a country with a very low vaccination rate. Once again, a problematic variant arises in a place where there is a very low vaccination rate.
I can say that because we have NEVER beaten a respiratory virus like covid with leaky vaccines. For simplicity, the virus has around 55 total epitopes to attack, and for some reason you think attacking the same 5 over and over on the S protein, which highly mutates, is going to work if we all just keep getting jabbed.

Surely there has to be somewhere in the world where they followed your rules. Can you point them out for me please?

Your plan is pushing the majority of the population all in the same direction with a 5 epitope vaccine that doesn't kill the virus on the spot, and now you're seeing what happens. The virus prefers the vaccinated now. Come for the king, best not miss.

That's normal and while it sounds spooky, it's really not. It happens and was the path it always was going to go with leaky vaccines. Covid is working it's way up the list. Fortunately, what's left is a tough out for Covid. The vaccine was able to give many protection for up to a year, while the virus tamed down. Take that win.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Since SG asked me what happened since Omicron BA4 and BA5 showed up i looked at it. What i saw surprised me.

i looked at case and death rates 7/16 through 8/19 vs. vaccine rates through 8/3. 8/3 is the latest update for vaccine rates. I used case and death rates for the period 7/16/2022 through 8/19/2022. One can always pick different time frames but I started with 7/16 based on what you can see at https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke ... roportions. As of the week ending 7/16, CDC estimates that 85.5% of cases were BA4 or BA5. Here is what I got:

Image

Yellow highlight indicates an association "significant" at >99% confidence.

FV is the fully vaccinated rate and B is the boosted rate. What that correlation matrix is showing is that there are very highly significant associations such that, during 7/16 through 8/19, States with higher fully vaccinated and/or boosted rates had lower CASE rates. I went in thinking that, if anything showed up, it would be an association involving DEATH rates.

The death rate associations are negative but not "significant."

i looked at "controlling" for different things and in this case it doesn't matter. The big thing with data representing the period when BA4 and BA5 became dominant is that higher vaccination rates are associated with lower case rates.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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The sign of the apocalypse- in CA police called over a 4 year old not wearing a mask..
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:00 am
I can say that because we have NEVER beaten a respiratory virus like covid with leaky vaccines. For simplicity, the virus has around 55 total epitopes to attack, and for some reason you think attacking the same 5 over and over on the S protein, which highly mutates, is going to work if we all just keep getting jabbed.

Surely there has to be somewhere in the world where they followed your rules. Can you point them out for me please?

Your plan is pushing the majority of the population all in the same direction with a 5 epitope vaccine that doesn't kill the virus on the spot, and now you're seeing what happens. The virus prefers the vaccinated now. Come for the king, best not miss.

That's normal and while it sounds spooky, it's really not. It happens and was the path it always was going to go with leaky vaccines. Covid is working it's way up the list. Fortunately, what's left is a tough out for Covid. The vaccine was able to give many protection for up to a year, while the virus tamed down. Take that win.
If a leaky vaccine is a vaccine that does not completely eliminate infection risk, there is no such thing as a vaccine that isn't leaky. The COVID-19 vaccines certainly did reduce infection risk early on and probably do reduce infection risk now. An example of a study showing infection risk was reduced early on is at https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... ne%20doses. A table summarizing the results is at https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/105235. During the study they tested all of the residents and health care workers twice per week so they were able to recognize asymptomatic infections.

I think that the most informative result is the extent to which infection risk among health care workers who were vaccinated was less than that among unvaccinated health care workers. I say that because I think the health care workers were more like the general population than the residents were. And the infection rate among vaccinated health care workers was 78% less than the rate among unvaccinated health care workers.

The difference in symptomatic disease rate was greater. The rate among vaccinated health care workers was 88% less than that among unvaccinated health care workers. But the 78% difference in infection rate is notable.

The vaccines are not as effective against newer variants. But they do still reduce the risk of symptomatic cases. I know of no reason to think they do not also reduce the risk of infection. it's just rare, as far as i know, to have studies like that one on that Kentucky Skilled Nursing facility where there is opportunity to repeatedly test everybody in the study population to see if they get infected.

Another thing is that vaccination isn't the only potential barrier. The public health paradigm is that you erect multiple barriers to reduce the risk. Vaccination that reduces the risk of infection to some extent (and the COVID-19 vaccines to that) is one. But there are also other things, like community masking, that public health officials were trying to foster. And they were running into resistance with all of them. Fighting misinformation with all of them.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Why don’t we push for healthy living instead of everyone getting jabbed by an ineffective vaccine that’s probably behind the sudden increase in deaths in the 28-45 year old group?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:00 am
I can say that because we have NEVER beaten a respiratory virus like covid with leaky vaccines.
Can you cite an example in which there was a vaccine that reduced the risk of infection by a virus that causes a respiratory disease to some extent, public health officials were able to obtain a vaccination rate of > 90%, and it didn't work?

Now, with what happened with COVID-19 mutations I don't think it likely that ALONE would work because the variants have R0 values of like 8 or more (18.6 has also been reported...though that number has been questioned). But i still doubt there is an example one can point to in which somebody succeeded in getting a > 90% vaccination rate with a vaccine that reduces infection rate and failed.
Last edited by JohnStOnge on Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:14 pm Why don’t we push for healthy living instead of everyone getting jabbed by an ineffective vaccine that’s probably behind the sudden increase in deaths in the 28-45 year old group?
The idea that the COVID-19 vaccines is behind an increase in deaths in the 28-45 year old group is ridiculous. The vaccines are not ineffective. That statement is also ridiculous. Most ridiculous is the idea that "living healthy" will solve everything so that we should disregard the benefits of modern medical science.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Didn't see a fact check pertaining to an claim about the 28-45 age group. But I did find one on the claim that the vaccines caused excess deaths among those 25-44. Here it is: https://www.reuters.com/article/factche ... SL2N2VS1BI

The claim is more the the kind of crap that has been coming from the "conservative" side. And i have "conservative" in quotes because real conservatism doesn't involve doing this kind of crap. It doesn't involve constantly lying to and trying to mislead people. And BTW I am not accusing AZGriz of doing that. I think AZGriz is an example of someone who has bought the crap from the people who ARE doing it.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:05 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:00 am
I can say that because we have NEVER beaten a respiratory virus like covid with leaky vaccines. For simplicity, the virus has around 55 total epitopes to attack, and for some reason you think attacking the same 5 over and over on the S protein, which highly mutates, is going to work if we all just keep getting jabbed.

Surely there has to be somewhere in the world where they followed your rules. Can you point them out for me please?

Your plan is pushing the majority of the population all in the same direction with a 5 epitope vaccine that doesn't kill the virus on the spot, and now you're seeing what happens. The virus prefers the vaccinated now. Come for the king, best not miss.

That's normal and while it sounds spooky, it's really not. It happens and was the path it always was going to go with leaky vaccines. Covid is working it's way up the list. Fortunately, what's left is a tough out for Covid. The vaccine was able to give many protection for up to a year, while the virus tamed down. Take that win.
If a leaky vaccine is a vaccine that does not completely eliminate infection risk, there is no such thing as a vaccine that isn't leaky. The COVID-19 vaccines certainly did reduce infection risk early on and probably do reduce infection risk now. An example of a study showing infection risk was reduced early on is at https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... ne%20doses. A table summarizing the results is at https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/105235. During the study they tested all of the residents and health care workers twice per week so they were able to recognize asymptomatic infections.

I think that the most informative result is the extent to which infection risk among health care workers who were vaccinated was less than that among unvaccinated health care workers. I say that because I think the health care workers were more like the general population than the residents were. And the infection rate among vaccinated health care workers was 78% less than the rate among unvaccinated health care workers.

The difference in symptomatic disease rate was greater. The rate among vaccinated health care workers was 88% less than that among unvaccinated health care workers. But the 78% difference in infection rate is notable.

The vaccines are not as effective against newer variants. But they do still reduce the risk of symptomatic cases. I know of no reason to think they do not also reduce the risk of infection. it's just rare, as far as i know, to have studies like that one on that Kentucky Skilled Nursing facility where there is opportunity to repeatedly test everybody in the study population to see if they get infected.

Another thing is that vaccination isn't the only potential barrier. The public health paradigm is that you erect multiple barriers to reduce the risk. Vaccination that reduces the risk of infection to some extent (and the COVID-19 vaccines to that) is one. But there are also other things, like community masking, that public health officials were trying to foster. And they were running into resistance with all of them. Fighting misinformation with all of them.
This statement here shows without a doubt how clueless you are on this subject. To pull your silly semantic game over a very commonly understood term and concept is quite laughable. Which field do you suppose the term originated?

The MMWR is not peer reviewed and your link is back from Mar of 2021.
Last edited by SeattleGriz on Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:16 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:00 am
I can say that because we have NEVER beaten a respiratory virus like covid with leaky vaccines.
Can you cite an example in which there was a vaccine that reduced the risk of infection by a virus that causes a respiratory disease to some extent, public health officials were able to obtain a vaccination rate of > 90%, and it didn't work?

Now, with what happened with COVID-19 mutations I don't think it likely that ALONE would work because the variants have R0 values of like 8 or more (18.6 has also been reported...though that number has been questioned). But i still doubt there is an example one can point to in which somebody succeeded in getting a > 90% vaccination rate with a vaccine that reduces infection rate and failed.
Let's save some time here. How about you tell me when the last respiratory (cold/flu/Covid) was in which we said, "thank goodness the vaccine ended this pandemic".
Last edited by SeattleGriz on Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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The worst and most destructive bureaucrat in US history, and with the highest paid govt employee in US history, has announced he is retiring in Dec. How convenient before the conks take over at least the House. They can still subpoena his ass before hearings to answer for his lies and disasterous policies..
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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BDKJMU wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:13 am The worst and most destructive bureaucrat in US history, and with the highest paid govt employee in US history, has announced he is retiring in Dec. How convenient before the conks take over at least the House. They can still subpoena his ass before hearings to answer for his lies and disasterous policies..
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:18 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:14 pm Why don’t we push for healthy living instead of everyone getting jabbed by an ineffective vaccine that’s probably behind the sudden increase in deaths in the 28-45 year old group?
The idea that the COVID-19 vaccines is behind an increase in deaths in the 28-45 year old group is ridiculous. The vaccines are not ineffective. That statement is also ridiculous. Most ridiculous is the idea that "living healthy" will solve everything so that we should disregard the benefits of modern medical science.
Why is it ridiculous? Why is there a spike in deaths 28-45? You have another answer?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:18 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:14 pm Why don’t we push for healthy living instead of everyone getting jabbed by an ineffective vaccine that’s probably behind the sudden increase in deaths in the 28-45 year old group?
The idea that the COVID-19 vaccines is behind an increase in deaths in the 28-45 year old group is ridiculous. The vaccines are not ineffective. That statement is also ridiculous. Most ridiculous is the idea that "living healthy" will solve everything so that we should disregard the benefits of modern medical science.
:lol: Start embracing Great Barrington Declaration parameters. We are now there.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:46 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:05 pm

If a leaky vaccine is a vaccine that does not completely eliminate infection risk, there is no such thing as a vaccine that isn't leaky. The COVID-19 vaccines certainly did reduce infection risk early on and probably do reduce infection risk now. An example of a study showing infection risk was reduced early on is at https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... ne%20doses. A table summarizing the results is at https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/105235. During the study they tested all of the residents and health care workers twice per week so they were able to recognize asymptomatic infections.

I think that the most informative result is the extent to which infection risk among health care workers who were vaccinated was less than that among unvaccinated health care workers. I say that because I think the health care workers were more like the general population than the residents were. And the infection rate among vaccinated health care workers was 78% less than the rate among unvaccinated health care workers.

The difference in symptomatic disease rate was greater. The rate among vaccinated health care workers was 88% less than that among unvaccinated health care workers. But the 78% difference in infection rate is notable.

The vaccines are not as effective against newer variants. But they do still reduce the risk of symptomatic cases. I know of no reason to think they do not also reduce the risk of infection. it's just rare, as far as i know, to have studies like that one on that Kentucky Skilled Nursing facility where there is opportunity to repeatedly test everybody in the study population to see if they get infected.

Another thing is that vaccination isn't the only potential barrier. The public health paradigm is that you erect multiple barriers to reduce the risk. Vaccination that reduces the risk of infection to some extent (and the COVID-19 vaccines to that) is one. But there are also other things, like community masking, that public health officials were trying to foster. And they were running into resistance with all of them. Fighting misinformation with all of them.
This statement here shows without a doubt how clueless you are on this subject. To pull your silly semantic game over a very commonly understood term and concept is quite laughable. Which field do you suppose the term originated?

The MMWR is not peer reviewed and your link is back from Mar of 2021.
It is not a semantic trick. If one is going to define "leaky vaccine" as a vaccine that does not prevent infection, one needs to understand that no vaccine is 100% effective in preventing infection. So the next question is: At what point does the % effectiveness get low enough for us to call it "leaky?"

And, really, the question isn't whether it is "leaky" or not. It's a function involving the infectiousness of the agent, the efficacy of the vaccine, and the vaccination rate.

When we first started this thing and we were dealing with a virus with R0 = around 3, the efficacy of the vaccine in terms of infection could have been reducing the risk of infection by 70% if we got a 96% vaccination rate. Or it could be 75% if we got an 89% vaccination rate.

That's based on a very simple model but that's the idea. The point is that it's not as simple as "the vaccine allows infections so it can't work to control the epidemic or pandemic."

Also, the vaccine is just one tool in trying to get the reproductive rate down. So the fact that you don't get the reproductive rate down to 1 using the vaccine alone does not mean you need to fail. The vaccine can be one contributing factor if you are also doing other things.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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SeattleGriz wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:33 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:18 pm

The idea that the COVID-19 vaccines is behind an increase in deaths in the 28-45 year old group is ridiculous. The vaccines are not ineffective. That statement is also ridiculous. Most ridiculous is the idea that "living healthy" will solve everything so that we should disregard the benefits of modern medical science.
:lol: Start embracing Great Barrington Declaration parameters. We are now there.
No we're not and we never will be because we did not do what they wanted to do at the time.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:49 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:16 pm

Can you cite an example in which there was a vaccine that reduced the risk of infection by a virus that causes a respiratory disease to some extent, public health officials were able to obtain a vaccination rate of > 90%, and it didn't work?

Now, with what happened with COVID-19 mutations I don't think it likely that ALONE would work because the variants have R0 values of like 8 or more (18.6 has also been reported...though that number has been questioned). But i still doubt there is an example one can point to in which somebody succeeded in getting a > 90% vaccination rate with a vaccine that reduces infection rate and failed.
Let's save some time here. How about you tell me when the last respiratory (cold/flu/Covid) was in which we said, "thank goodness the vaccine ended this pandemic".
There are no cold vaccines. The influenza vaccination rate has typically been under 60%. The maximum over the past 11 influenza season was 63.7%.

The question is: When you say vaccination has never stopped a respiratory virus, do you have an example of a case in which there was an effort to do so, the vaccine reduced the risk of infection, and a vaccination rate of at least 90% was achieved?

The point is that saying "it's never worked" loses some umpgh when one notes that it's never really been implemented.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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JohnStOnge wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:22 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:33 pm

:lol: Start embracing Great Barrington Declaration parameters. We are now there.
No we're not and we never will be because we did not do what they wanted to do at the time.
How does that make sense? Even though we are following your advice of 'focused protection ', we actually aren't because we didn't buy in before now?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:46 pm
The MMWR is not peer reviewed and your link is back from Mar of 2021.
I noted that it was 'early on." The MMWR is a very credible source among epidemiologist. And it is "peer reviewed" in the sense that qualified people review the product. The way it is stated by CDC is this (from https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6004a2.htm):
Although most articles that appear in MMWR are not "peer-reviewed" in the way that submissions to medical journals are, to ensure that the content of MMWR comports with CDC policy, every submission to MMWR undergoes a rigorous multilevel clearance process before publication. This includes review by the CDC Director or designate, top scientific directors at all CDC organizational levels, and an exacting review by MMWR editors. Articles submitted to MMWR from non-CDC authors undergo the same kind of review by subject-matter experts within CDC.
Do you doubt the results? It's pretty straightforward. They had a defined population of people who were being tested twice weekly. They looked at their vaccination status and whether or not they tested positive (and got sick, died, etc.).

Yes it was early on. But what it showed is that it was stopping infection overall at close to the rate at which it was stopping symptomatic disease.

I do not know of another study like that...where they were able to repeatedly test the subject population...done more recently. But given the results i think going with "vaccines don't reduce risk of infection" would be extremely questionable. They do appear to continue to reduce case rates, albeit not to the extent that they did with the early variant(s). But why would you think things would change to that the relative extent to which they lower risk of infection vs. the extent to which they lower cases would have changed?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:32 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:18 pm

The idea that the COVID-19 vaccines is behind an increase in deaths in the 28-45 year old group is ridiculous. The vaccines are not ineffective. That statement is also ridiculous. Most ridiculous is the idea that "living healthy" will solve everything so that we should disregard the benefits of modern medical science.
Why is it ridiculous? Why is there a spike in deaths 28-45? You have another answer?
See other another answer in the article i linked in the post just after the one you quoted (https://www.reuters.com/article/factche ... SL2N2VS1BI).
“There is no way to attribute the increase to vaccination or any single specific cause,” NCHS said. “That said, the large increase in COVID deaths (and total deaths) for the latter part of 2021 does coincide with the Delta and Omicron waves.”

Kyle Sheldrick, a medical doctor and researcher, also debunked the video in a Twitter thread (here). Sheldrick explains how Dowd and the unidentified man who examined the data created their graph using CDC data (here), and points to the spread of the dangerous Delta variant as the more likely reason for spikes in deaths in the second half of 2021.
The possibility of adverse events caused by the vaccines is being very closely monitored. In fact the monitoring is causing problems because we have people misinterpreting what is going on with the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System. They are looking at adverse events that occur after vaccination and looking to see if it looks like there is an association such that a given adverse event (including death) proportionately occurs more often among people who got vaccinated than it occurs in the general population. When it happens, such as is the case with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine and blood clotting, they report it.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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BDKJMU wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:13 am The worst and most destructive bureaucrat in US history, and with the highest paid govt employee in US history, has announced he is retiring in Dec. How convenient before the conks take over at least the House. They can still subpoena his ass before hearings to answer for his lies and disasterous policies..
The guy just did his job. People asked him what he thought and he said what he thought at the time. The demonization of this guy by nut jobs on the right has been just awful.
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