Yes. Perfect example is how the gubmint uses the FISA court to go after anyone they need to.Ibanez wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:42 amI've been asking for years for someone to tell me a right that I had on 9/10/2001 that I no longer have.SDHornet wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:22 am @ all these people claiming no freedoms were lost/impacted that also lived through the post-9/11 civil liberties grab by the gubmint. This is the same thing with just a different excuse for gubmint to impinge on our rights and freedoms.
@ anyone who doesn't get that.
A right...not a privilege or convenience.
Or are we all talking about our freedom of privacy? That I can agree that we have lost some privacy.
Coronavirus COVID-19
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Yep. We all lost our 4th amendment rights when the government feels like it due to 9/11.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
I don't attend church so I don't know. I do know that I can't eat indoors at a restaurant. Kate "Shutdown" Brown reinstituted restrictions starting today.Ibanez wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:38 amOk - good point. There was a brief suspension of large gatherings in order to protect the public health. Unless i'm mistaken, there was plenty of assembly last year in Portland, DC, and many other cities. You surely can peacefully assemble now. I'm going to a town festival this evening.
This Sunday, are you able to attend church in Washington or Oregon?
Asking which rights have been lost is disingenuous. The issue is so much a specific right that was lost but the gradual degradation of our rights and freedoms whether from Covid restrictions, the Patriot Act or other examples of a growing government.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
4th amendment..Ibanez wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:42 amI've been asking for years for someone to tell me a right that I had on 9/10/2001 that I no longer have.SDHornet wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:22 am @ all these people claiming no freedoms were lost/impacted that also lived through the post-9/11 civil liberties grab by the gubmint. This is the same thing with just a different excuse for gubmint to impinge on our rights and freedoms.
@ anyone who doesn't get that.
A right...not a privilege or convenience.
Or are we all talking about our freedom of privacy? That I can agree that we have lost some privacy.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Rights aren’t unlimited.
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Huh?
If we can prohibit the free exercise of religion (1st amendment) then we can also:
- Give law enforcement the limited ability to search our physical and electronic property without a warrant (4th)
- Convict the Columbus police officer that shot Ma'Khia Bryant without a trial (5th, 6th, and 7th) (MMW will be happy with this one)
- Flog criminals on a "limited" basis (8th)
- Reinstate limited slavery (13th)
- Limit the voting ability of African American men (15th)
- Limit the voting ability of women (19th)
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Regardless....rights are still limited and/or suspended for various reasons from time to time. Or should we allow human sacrifice as well?UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:07 amHuh?
If we can prohibit the free exercise of religion (1st amendment) then we can also:Prioritizing rights and trying to set an acceptable level of infringement on the "less important" ones is a fools game that leads to a dark place for all.
- Give law enforcement the limited ability to search our physical and electronic property without a warrant (4th)
- Convict the Columbus police officer that shot Ma'Khia Bryant without a trial (5th, 6th, and 7th) (MMW will be happy with this one)
- Flog criminals on a "limited" basis (8th)
- Reinstate limited slavery (13th)
- Limit the voting ability of African American men (15th)
- Limit the voting ability of women (19th)
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please. The list is long and illustrious, and as 88 so aptly pointed out, the power grab been going on since 9/11.
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kalm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:50 amRegardless....rights are still limited and/or suspended for various reasons from time to time. Or should we allow human sacrifice as well?UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:07 am
Huh?
If we can prohibit the free exercise of religion (1st amendment) then we can also:Prioritizing rights and trying to set an acceptable level of infringement on the "less important" ones is a fools game that leads to a dark place for all.
- Give law enforcement the limited ability to search our physical and electronic property without a warrant (4th)
- Convict the Columbus police officer that shot Ma'Khia Bryant without a trial (5th, 6th, and 7th) (MMW will be happy with this one)
- Flog criminals on a "limited" basis (8th)
- Reinstate limited slavery (13th)
- Limit the voting ability of African American men (15th)
- Limit the voting ability of women (19th)
Translation: All great examples, 88. I have nothing, so I'll go straight to "human sacrifice!"
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
By the Republicans and Democrats, right?
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During Covid rights have been limited/suspended arbitrarily, based on ideology or political influence. Protests were ok, going to church wasn't (and don't give me a BS argument about outdoors vs indoors, they didn't really understand how much greater the risk of indoor spread was at that time). Going to WalMart or Home Depot was ok going to your corner store wasn't.kalm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:50 amRegardless....rights are still limited and/or suspended for various reasons from time to time. Or should we allow human sacrifice as well?UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:07 am
Huh?
If we can prohibit the free exercise of religion (1st amendment) then we can also:Prioritizing rights and trying to set an acceptable level of infringement on the "less important" ones is a fools game that leads to a dark place for all.
- Give law enforcement the limited ability to search our physical and electronic property without a warrant (4th)
- Convict the Columbus police officer that shot Ma'Khia Bryant without a trial (5th, 6th, and 7th) (MMW will be happy with this one)
- Flog criminals on a "limited" basis (8th)
- Reinstate limited slavery (13th)
- Limit the voting ability of African American men (15th)
- Limit the voting ability of women (19th)
The fear that our rights are gradually being infringed upon and eroded is valid. The Patriot Act was a step. The Covid restrictions are another.
Last edited by UNI88 on Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yes. I've never specified a party. Your rights are deteriorating as we speak. Period.
Every law passed that references gun control is a right guaranteed in the constitution being eroded.
Every law passed that references "hate speech" is a right guaranteed in the constitution being eroded.
That's just two quick examples.
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It was over as soon as we started referring to it as "the homeland".UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:03 pmDuring Covid rights have been limited/suspended arbitrarily, based on ideology or political influence. Protests were ok, going to church wasn't (and don't give me a BS argument about outdoors vs indoors, they didn't really understand how much greater the risk of spread indoors was at that time). Going to WalMart or Home Depot was ok going to your corner store wasn't.
The fear that our rights are gradually being infringed upon and eroded is valid. The Patriot Act was a step. The Covid restrictions are another.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
It's interesting watching the alt-righters cheer on militarized DHS agents cracking down on protesters/rioters/looters in Portland and whine about Covid restrictions while ctrl-lefters are doing the opposite, neither side realizing that both are symptoms of the same disease infecting our government.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:07 pmIt was over as soon as we started referring to it as "the homeland".UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:03 pm
During Covid rights have been limited/suspended arbitrarily, based on ideology or political influence. Protests were ok, going to church wasn't (and don't give me a BS argument about outdoors vs indoors, they didn't really understand how much greater the risk of spread indoors was at that time). Going to WalMart or Home Depot was ok going to your corner store wasn't.
The fear that our rights are gradually being infringed upon and eroded is valid. The Patriot Act was a step. The Covid restrictions are another.
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Some restrictions HAVE been arbitrary. I also never supported BLM protests (understood why but disagreed with the timing).UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:03 pmDuring Covid rights have been limited/suspended arbitrarily, based on ideology or political influence. Protests were ok, going to church wasn't (and don't give me a BS argument about outdoors vs indoors, they didn't really understand how much greater the risk of indoor spread was at that time). Going to WalMart or Home Depot was ok going to your corner store wasn't.
The fear that our rights are gradually being infringed upon and eroded is valid. The Patriot Act was a step. The Covid restrictions are another.
Some of it may have been based on politics but that’s hardly a slam dunk. We made mistakes, learned, adjusted and compromised between freedom and public safety. We do this all the time but haven’t had to for this level of threat very often.
It’s still ironic that so many who’ve cried freedom (not singling out you here) demonstrated time and again they were incapable of doing the right thing on their own...delaying a quicker path back to normal. That quicker path was suggested time and again even going as far back as last April but was ignored.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
I can still go a buy and gun and tell you that I think Texas is full of dickless fucks with big hats.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:06 pmYes. I've never specified a party. Your rights are deteriorating as we speak. Period.
Every law passed that references gun control is a right guaranteed in the constitution being eroded.
Every law passed that references "hate speech" is a right guaranteed in the constitution being eroded.
That's just two quick examples.
But I get what you're saying. So why do you stand for it? I assume you haven't voted for any career politician - especially any that was around in 2001.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
What quicker path was that, and please list out the scientific backing for that quicker path.kalm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:24 pmSome restrictions HAVE been arbitrary. I also never supported BLM protests (understood why but disagreed with the timing).UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:03 pm
During Covid rights have been limited/suspended arbitrarily, based on ideology or political influence. Protests were ok, going to church wasn't (and don't give me a BS argument about outdoors vs indoors, they didn't really understand how much greater the risk of indoor spread was at that time). Going to WalMart or Home Depot was ok going to your corner store wasn't.
The fear that our rights are gradually being infringed upon and eroded is valid. The Patriot Act was a step. The Covid restrictions are another.
Some of it may have been based on politics but that’s hardly a slam dunk. We made mistakes, learned, adjusted and compromised between freedom and public safety. We do this all the time but haven’t had to for this level of threat very often.
It’s still ironic that so many who’ve cried freedom (not singling out you here) demonstrated time and again they were incapable of doing the right thing on their own...delaying a quicker path back to normal. That quicker path was suggested time and again even going as far back as last April but was ignored.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Are you sure about that?kalm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:24 pmSome restrictions HAVE been arbitrary. I also never supported BLM protests (understood why but disagreed with the timing).UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:03 pm During Covid rights have been limited/suspended arbitrarily, based on ideology or political influence. Protests were ok, going to church wasn't (and don't give me a BS argument about outdoors vs indoors, they didn't really understand how much greater the risk of indoor spread was at that time). Going to WalMart or Home Depot was ok going to your corner store wasn't.
The fear that our rights are gradually being infringed upon and eroded is valid. The Patriot Act was a step. The Covid restrictions are another.
Some of it may have been based on politics but that’s hardly a slam dunk. We made mistakes, learned, adjusted and compromised between freedom and public safety. We do this all the time but haven’t had to for this level of threat very often.
It’s still ironic that so many who’ve cried freedom (not singling out you here) demonstrated time and again they were incapable of doing the right thing on their own...delaying a quicker path back to normal. That quicker path was suggested time and again even going as far back as last April but was ignored.
If many of the "experts" were right, shouldn't there be a much starker difference in case counts and deaths between states with heavy restrictions vs those without? If the naysayers are right and it's little more than the flu, than why are cases in India blowing up? There appears to still be so much about this that we don't know that I am skeptical of anyone who thinks they have definitive answers. I have no problem with being cautious but the lessons of Florida, Texas, etc. would appear to say that restrictions do not need to be draconian. I don't think anyone knows which path would have been quicker.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Oh, you can go buy a gun. But you have to give them your life story, in many places the type, style or magazine capacities are limited, etc., etc...Do the words "shall not be infringed" mean anything?Ibanez wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:28 pmI can still go a buy and gun and tell you that I think Texas is full of dickless fucks with big hats.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:06 pm
Yes. I've never specified a party. Your rights are deteriorating as we speak. Period.
Every law passed that references gun control is a right guaranteed in the constitution being eroded.
Every law passed that references "hate speech" is a right guaranteed in the constitution being eroded.
That's just two quick examples.
But I get what you're saying. So why do you stand for it? I assume you haven't voted for any career politician - especially any that was around in 2001.
Just don't call them all the new "verboten" words (like Oriental).
And not many, that's for certain. As I've made clear on this board, i RARELY vote for either of the established candidates for President. Held my nose and voted for Ted Boobs last time because there was no WAY I wanted that girly fuck Beta in the senate.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
India's main problem is terrible living conditions.UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:16 pmAre you sure about that?kalm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:24 pm
Some restrictions HAVE been arbitrary. I also never supported BLM protests (understood why but disagreed with the timing).
Some of it may have been based on politics but that’s hardly a slam dunk. We made mistakes, learned, adjusted and compromised between freedom and public safety. We do this all the time but haven’t had to for this level of threat very often.
It’s still ironic that so many who’ve cried freedom (not singling out you here) demonstrated time and again they were incapable of doing the right thing on their own...delaying a quicker path back to normal. That quicker path was suggested time and again even going as far back as last April but was ignored.
If many of the "experts" were right, shouldn't there be a much starker difference in case counts and deaths between states with heavy restrictions vs those without? If the naysayers are right and it's little more than the flu, than why are cases in India blowing up? There appears to still be so much about this that we don't know that I am skeptical of anyone who thinks they have definitive answers. I have no problem with being cautious but the lessons of Florida, Texas, etc. would appear to say that restrictions do not need to be draconian. I don't think anyone knows which path would have been quicker.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
True but does the flu blow up like Covid has?SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:50 pmIndia's main problem is terrible living conditions.UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:16 pm
Are you sure about that?
If many of the "experts" were right, shouldn't there be a much starker difference in case counts and deaths between states with heavy restrictions vs those without? If the naysayers are right and it's little more than the flu, than why are cases in India blowing up? There appears to still be so much about this that we don't know that I am skeptical of anyone who thinks they have definitive answers. I have no problem with being cautious but the lessons of Florida, Texas, etc. would appear to say that restrictions do not need to be draconian. I don't think anyone knows which path would have been quicker.
Covid is more dangerous than the flu but less dangerous than the scolds would have us believe.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
62 million infected by H1N1, but if you dig a little, you find out that was calculated and not actual positive results + symptoms.
In regards to COVID, while there was some base level of immunity, it still was considered novel. While I don't carry any comorbidities and I'm not in the danger zone for age, I can certainly see that if given a chance, COVID WILL find you.
Its been difficult to find good articles on India. I've been trying to see if they have had an extended cold and flu season coupled with the relaxing of restrictions. I'm not comfortable with what I've read yet to make a guess.
I have seen some unreal tweets of the living conditions and would expect COVID to be making hay right now.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
You and I agree completely in regarding still much to learn. Texas and Florida are intriguing, no doubt and I am prepared to change my mind on whether restrictions were overly draconian. It will take a deeper dive to theorize the factors and I’m not convinced we can close the case yet. I’ll poke around a little this weekend.UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:16 pmAre you sure about that?kalm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:24 pm
Some restrictions HAVE been arbitrary. I also never supported BLM protests (understood why but disagreed with the timing).
Some of it may have been based on politics but that’s hardly a slam dunk. We made mistakes, learned, adjusted and compromised between freedom and public safety. We do this all the time but haven’t had to for this level of threat very often.
It’s still ironic that so many who’ve cried freedom (not singling out you here) demonstrated time and again they were incapable of doing the right thing on their own...delaying a quicker path back to normal. That quicker path was suggested time and again even going as far back as last April but was ignored.
If many of the "experts" were right, shouldn't there be a much starker difference in case counts and deaths between states with heavy restrictions vs those without? If the naysayers are right and it's little more than the flu, than why are cases in India blowing up? There appears to still be so much about this that we don't know that I am skeptical of anyone who thinks they have definitive answers. I have no problem with being cautious but the lessons of Florida, Texas, etc. would appear to say that restrictions do not need to be draconian. I don't think anyone knows which path would have been quicker.
We went into this with a wide range of possibilities and are getting smarter about it as we move along. But even just preliminary warnings regarding the potential deaths, compromised hospital systems, and long term effects came to fruition. Some of that was based on what we experienced in 1918. 560,000 is a big number. The fact our economy has not suffered more is also interesting.
I also wonder about the amount of avoidable suffering due to other healthcare that was deferred during the surges in places like Houston, El Paso, Mississippi, and now in India.
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I don't have the answers but I like to ask questions. Why didn't COVID make hay in India before now? What changed? I think this is worse than the flu and caution is still appropriate but it doesn't appear that draconian measures are necessary.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:15 pm62 million infected by H1N1, but if you dig a little, you find out that was calculated and not actual positive results + symptoms.
In regards to COVID, while there was some base level of immunity, it still was considered novel. While I don't carry any comorbidities and I'm not in the danger zone for age, I can certainly see that if given a chance, COVID WILL find you.
Its been difficult to find good articles on India. I've been trying to see if they have had an extended cold and flu season coupled with the relaxing of restrictions. I'm not comfortable with what I've read yet to make a guess.
I have seen some unreal tweets of the living conditions and would expect COVID to be making hay right now.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
From what I'm reading, they were under pretty tight lockdown and recently relaxed restrictions. Apparently when they locked down, they didn't have a plan for "essential" business to stay open and everyone ran out of food and supplies.UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:26 pmI don't have the answers but I like to ask questions. Why didn't COVID make hay in India before now? What changed? I think this is worse than the flu and caution is still appropriate but it doesn't appear that draconian measures are necessary.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:15 pm
62 million infected by H1N1, but if you dig a little, you find out that was calculated and not actual positive results + symptoms.
In regards to COVID, while there was some base level of immunity, it still was considered novel. While I don't carry any comorbidities and I'm not in the danger zone for age, I can certainly see that if given a chance, COVID WILL find you.
Its been difficult to find good articles on India. I've been trying to see if they have had an extended cold and flu season coupled with the relaxing of restrictions. I'm not comfortable with what I've read yet to make a guess.
I have seen some unreal tweets of the living conditions and would expect COVID to be making hay right now.
So after you lockdown without a plan to ensure everyone gets their needed supplies, they opened back up and made a bad situation worse. The living conditions are a breeding ground for illness.
As previously stated, this is just my initial look, so I could be off on this.
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