Coronavirus COVID-19

[AZGrizFan]

Yes. See the Dakotas. Both are well on the downside of their latest “surge” in both cases and deaths. Meanwhile Washington’s peak occurred almost 30 days later than the Dakotas’ did, and they appear to be right about the peak of their death curve. Florida (fairly populated, with a whole shitload of old people) appears to have leveled off its deaths and case count despite not locking down or destroying their economy again. California (some of the toughest lockdown regulations in the country) sees cases and deaths continue to skyrocket.

The graphs aren’t “still images”. They’re a historical record of how states have done compared to other states.

And what they continue to show us is this: LOCKDOWNS DON’T WORK.

(Forgets we’ve had similar discussions using Sweden, Florida, Texas...with each surge and decline)

Texas added 118,000 new cases this week. Florida 75K. Better than California but hardly on significant downhill slide. That will probably start happening at the end of February. The Dakotas are indeed a function of timing and as mentioned ad nauseam is one of numerous factors influencing case counts. Hence snap shots.

Lockdowns work...as do all preventative measures. Neither of us like the ancillary effects I just happen to value life, community, and functioning hospitals more than you. Also patience.

Patience? Just two weeks to flatten the curve, amirite???

I’m just proving your hypotheses wrong....you keep moving the goal posts. You mentioned the Dakotas. Wrong. You used Washington as a shining example. Wrong again. “Probably happening at the end of February?” Why might that be, one should ask....because it ain’t gonna be because of lockdowns and masks. It’s because VIRUS GONNA VIRUS. Meanwhile, the wealth transfer continues....congrats, Nazi.

[AshevilleApp]

(Forgets we’ve had similar discussions using Sweden, Florida, Texas...with each surge and decline)

Texas added 118,000 new cases this week. Florida 75K. Better than California but hardly on significant downhill slide. That will probably start happening at the end of February. The Dakotas are indeed a function of timing and as mentioned ad nauseam is one of numerous factors influencing case counts. Hence snap shots.

Lockdowns work...as do all preventative measures. Neither of us like the ancillary effects I just happen to value life, community, and functioning hospitals more than you. Also patience.

Patience? Just two weeks to flatten the curve, amirite???

I’m just proving your hypotheses wrong....you keep moving the goal posts. You mentioned the Dakotas. Wrong. You used Washington as a shining example. Wrong again. “Probably happening at the end of February?” Why might that be, one should ask....because it ain’t gonna be because of lockdowns and masks. It’s because VIRUS GONNA VIRUS. Meanwhile, the wealth transfer continues....congrats, Nazi.

kalm, you're a Nazi? I thought you were a Commie. This place gets confusing.

[AZGrizFan]

Patience? Just two weeks to flatten the curve, amirite???

I’m just proving your hypotheses wrong....you keep moving the goal posts. You mentioned the Dakotas. Wrong. You used Washington as a shining example. Wrong again. “Probably happening at the end of February?” Why might that be, one should ask....because it ain’t gonna be because of lockdowns and masks. It’s because VIRUS GONNA VIRUS. Meanwhile, the wealth transfer continues....congrats, Nazi.

kalm, you're a Nazi? I thought you were a Commie. This place gets confusing.

He also thinks he’s a centrist, which he’s not....so yes, it IS confusing.

[AshevilleApp]

kalm, you're a Nazi? I thought you were a Commie. This place gets confusing.

He also thinks he’s a centrist, which he’s not....so yes, it IS confusing.

Nah, kalms alright, and more to the center than the majority of folks here. Maybe center left as opposed to center right though.

[UNI88]

He also thinks he’s a centrist, which he’s not....so yes, it IS confusing.

Nah, kalms alright, and more to the center than the majority of folks here. Maybe center left as opposed to center right though.

Kalm's alright and he started center-left but he's drifting leftward.

That doesn't bother me though because respectful debates about ideas strengthen and improve them.

[kalm]

(Forgets we’ve had similar discussions using Sweden, Florida, Texas...with each surge and decline)

Texas added 118,000 new cases this week. Florida 75K. Better than California but hardly on significant downhill slide. That will probably start happening at the end of February. The Dakotas are indeed a function of timing and as mentioned ad nauseam is one of numerous factors influencing case counts. Hence snap shots.

Lockdowns work...as do all preventative measures. Neither of us like the ancillary effects I just happen to value life, community, and functioning hospitals more than you. Also patience.

Patience? Just two weeks to flatten the curve, amirite???

I’m just proving your hypotheses wrong....you keep moving the goal posts. You mentioned the Dakotas. Wrong. You used Washington as a shining example. Wrong again. “Probably happening at the end of February?” Why might that be, one should ask....because it ain’t gonna be because of lockdowns and masks. It’s because VIRUS GONNA VIRUS. Meanwhile, the wealth transfer continues....congrats, Nazi.

Ummm...I didn't set the goal posts. They were set by politicians, scientists, and public health administrators. They got some things wrong and some things right but the smart ones really haven't been surprised by the trajectory of the virus from the start. This is all well within the range of possibilities back in February-March. That's why I suggested February peak. That's based on recent history of the disease and others prior to it. In other words, numbers and science that have grown more predictive as we've move along.

But there's about as much consensus that masks and lockdowns work as there is on global warming. The only ones suggesting they don't are the contrarians, paid talking heads, grifters, and/or those like Alex Berenson who got it wrong from the start and chose to double down rather than own his mistake. Also helps that he was able to write a book about it. Herd immunity as you suggest is laughed at.

I didn't say Washington was a "shining example". I did use it as an example compared to neighboring Idaho. With a nation of 330 million people, separate state governments, weakened federal authority and capability, open borders, massive international travel etc all of which vary depending on location, you're bound to see some outliers and surprises. But again, the overall outcome so far is not surprising and will make more sense as we gain control and have had time to view all the post-mortems that come out.

Arguing the economic vs. lockdown is far more worthy a discussion than the state by state whack a mole game that you want to continue to play (see this thread before Thanksgiving and where you were wrong then at least regarding Texas IIRC).

BTW, the economic arguments for ending restrictions too soon are less strong now as more numbers come out. The long term economic effects and how they're dealt with from a stimulus standpoint to the pending healthcare debt crisis will be coming home to roost before we know it. That's why I started a new thread on it.

[kalm]

kalm, you're a Nazi? I thought you were a Commie. This place gets confusing.

He also thinks he’s a centrist, which he’s not....so yes, it IS confusing.

Well if I can move from commie to Nazi that quickly, I must be somewhere near the center.

[Col Hogan]

Who determines the “who” the “how long” the “what” as in what makes this necessary???

[Gil Dobie]

Saw my first "Vaccine is Bad" post on social media, by a conservative. I predict in a couple months or less, there will be a big deal on here, Conservatives say vaccine is bad, Liberals say follow the science. It's could be the mask shitshow all over again.

[AZGrizFan]

Patience? Just two weeks to flatten the curve, amirite???

I’m just proving your hypotheses wrong....you keep moving the goal posts. You mentioned the Dakotas. Wrong. You used Washington as a shining example. Wrong again. “Probably happening at the end of February?” Why might that be, one should ask....because it ain’t gonna be because of lockdowns and masks. It’s because VIRUS GONNA VIRUS. Meanwhile, the wealth transfer continues....congrats, Nazi.

Ummm...I didn't set the goal posts. They were set by politicians, scientists, and public health administrators. They got some things wrong and some things right but the smart ones really haven't been surprised by the trajectory of the virus from the start. This is all well within the range of possibilities back in February-March. That's why I suggested February peak. That's based on recent history of the disease and others prior to it. In other words, numbers and science that have grown more predictive as we've move along.

But there's about as much consensus that masks and lockdowns work as there is on global warming. The only ones suggesting they don't are the contrarians, paid talking heads, grifters, and/or those like Alex Berenson who got it wrong from the start and chose to double down rather than own his mistake. Also helps that he was able to write a book about it. Herd immunity as you suggest is laughed at.

I didn't say Washington was a "shining example". I did use it as an example compared to neighboring Idaho. With a nation of 330 million people, separate state governments, weakened federal authority and capability, open borders, massive international travel etc all of which vary depending on location, you're bound to see some outliers and surprises. But again, the overall outcome so far is not surprising and will make more sense as we gain control and have had time to view all the post-mortems that come out.

Arguing the economic vs. lockdown is far more worthy a discussion than the state by state whack a mole game that you want to continue to play (see this thread before Thanksgiving and where you were wrong then at least regarding Texas IIRC).

BTW, the economic arguments for ending restrictions too soon are less strong now as more numbers come out. The long term economic effects and how they're dealt with from a stimulus standpoint to the pending healthcare debt crisis will be coming home to roost before we know it. That's why I started a new thread on it.

You changed them in two posts.

And no, I wasn’t wrong about Texas. You kept stating the #’s had “doubled”, when in fact they were up 47% at the time.

[AZGrizFan]

Saw my first "Vaccine is Bad" post on social media, by a conservative. I predict in a couple months or less, there will be a big deal on here, Conservatives say vaccine is bad, Liberals say follow the science. It's could be the mask shitshow all over again.

It already is. Today two people got the vaccine and died.


But it wasn’t the vaccine that killed them.


But if they’d showed up with COVID and died. COVID DEFINITELY would be the cause.

[HI54UNI]

Saw my first "Vaccine is Bad" post on social media, by a conservative. I predict in a couple months or less, there will be a big deal on here, Conservatives say vaccine is bad, Liberals say follow the science. It's could be the mask shitshow all over again.

I saw it too.

Kamala Harris on COVID vaccine: Won’t take it if Trump tells me to

https://nypost.com/2020/10/07/kamala-ha ... lls-me-to/

Cuomo says he'll withhold vaccine from NY until he says it's safe
Governor Andrew Cuomo is threatening to withhold a COVID-19 vaccine from New York until his team of doctors deem it safe because he doesn't trust the FDA or CDC, raising serious questions about how and when it will eventually become available and who will be the arbiter of it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cuomo ... r-BB1ab1c0

[Gil Dobie]

Saw my first "Vaccine is Bad" post on social media, by a conservative. I predict in a couple months or less, there will be a big deal on here, Conservatives say vaccine is bad, Liberals say follow the science. It's could be the mask shitshow all over again.

It already is. Today two people got the vaccine and died.


But it wasn’t the vaccine that killed them.


But if they’d showed up with COVID and died. COVID DEFINITELY would be the cause.

You have to show some credible links man. I did a google search and found nothing.

[AZGrizFan]

It already is. Today two people got the vaccine and died.


But it wasn’t the vaccine that killed them.


But if they’d showed up with COVID and died. COVID DEFINITELY would be the cause.

You have to show some credible links man. I did a google search and found nothing.

[kalm]

Ummm...I didn't set the goal posts. They were set by politicians, scientists, and public health administrators. They got some things wrong and some things right but the smart ones really haven't been surprised by the trajectory of the virus from the start. This is all well within the range of possibilities back in February-March. That's why I suggested February peak. That's based on recent history of the disease and others prior to it. In other words, numbers and science that have grown more predictive as we've move along.

But there's about as much consensus that masks and lockdowns work as there is on global warming. The only ones suggesting they don't are the contrarians, paid talking heads, grifters, and/or those like Alex Berenson who got it wrong from the start and chose to double down rather than own his mistake. Also helps that he was able to write a book about it. Herd immunity as you suggest is laughed at.

I didn't say Washington was a "shining example". I did use it as an example compared to neighboring Idaho. With a nation of 330 million people, separate state governments, weakened federal authority and capability, open borders, massive international travel etc all of which vary depending on location, you're bound to see some outliers and surprises. But again, the overall outcome so far is not surprising and will make more sense as we gain control and have had time to view all the post-mortems that come out.

Arguing the economic vs. lockdown is far more worthy a discussion than the state by state whack a mole game that you want to continue to play (see this thread before Thanksgiving and where you were wrong then at least regarding Texas IIRC).

BTW, the economic arguments for ending restrictions too soon are less strong now as more numbers come out. The long term economic effects and how they're dealt with from a stimulus standpoint to the pending healthcare debt crisis will be coming home to roost before we know it. That's why I started a new thread on it.

You changed them in two posts.

And no, I wasn’t wrong about Texas. You kept stating the #’s had “doubled”, when in fact they were up 47% at the time.

What do you mean by changing the goal posts? And yes, you were wrong about Texas.

[kalm]

More “changing the goal posts” I suppose.

“Don’t trust the numbers, they’re over-counting! Trust the numbers, they confirm my bias and they’re going to down...just like the flu! Never mind the warnings on surges and holiday reporting! Lockdowns don’t work! I’m not scared it’s you who are scared!”

The United States reported at least 291,300 new coronavirus cases on Saturday, a single-day record but one that is inflated because of delays in reporting over the holidays.

Nineteen states reported no data on Friday, which was a public holiday for New Year’s Day. The remaining states reported a total of more than 147,000 new cases on Friday. The near doubling of cases on Saturday can mostly be explained by many states reporting cases for both Friday and Saturday, with one state, Michigan, reporting cases for Thursday as well. Other states will wait until Sunday or Monday to report cases from the past few days, which will continue to distort the totals.

Regular data reporting is expected to resume toward the end of next week.

The country’s previous single-day record, according to a New York Times database, was 280,514 new cases on Dec. 11, though that number was also inflated because of 43,000 cases that were added from a backlog in Texas. The highest number of new cases in a single day without any data anomalies was 251,191 on Dec. 18.

Regardless of holiday reporting delays, the United States has had the world’s worst outbreak for most of the pandemic and is experiencing a new surge in infections even as vaccine distribution begins. The deluge is particularly strong in Los Angeles County, the largest in the United States, where the seven-day average of new cases is at a peak of 16,193, about 12 times higher than the seven-day average from Nov. 1, which was 1,347.

And with fears that another wave of cases will crest after holiday travel and gatherings, the country reached yet another milestone on Saturday that was once unthinkable, surpassing 350,000 total deaths. At the same time, more than 123,000 Covid-19 patients were hospitalized, only a slight drop from the record level on Thursday.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/02 ... g-the-data

[Gil Dobie]

You have to show some credible links man. I did a google search and found nothing.

This doesn't appear to be related to the vaccine.

[AZGrizFan]

This doesn't appear to be related to the vaccine.

Yes. Well done.

[SeattleGriz]

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/3/21162772/t ... e-covid-19

Trump’s ignorance was on public display during coronavirus meeting with pharmaceutical execs

The guy actually asked if the flu vaccine would work for an entirely different virus.

We really do have a complete idiot in the President's position.

You need better news sources. Rupar was shown to be the idiot here.

[HI54UNI]

The best Covid governor is doing a great job of rolling out the vaccine in NY.

New York’s slow-footed COVID-19 vaccine rollout has been a mismanaged mess, critics said Friday, with recent data showing that even Florida has doled out shots at a faster clip than the Empire State.

The harsh words come a day after The Post reported that New York State has injected less than a third of the vaccines it has — casting doubt on Mayor Bill de Blasio’s dream of jabbing a million city residents in January.

“It’s chaos out there. The state has no idea what it’s doing,” said Rensselaer County Executive Steve McLaughlin, particularly taking aim at the leadership of Gov. Andrew Cuomo.

“The Cuomo handling of the vaccine is blithering incompetence.”

https://nypost.com/2021/01/01/critics-p ... e-rollout/

[Gil Dobie]

My sister got her shot in FL, friends in ND and MN got vaccinated too. All are hospital workers.

[CAA Flagship]

You need better news sources. Rupar was shown to be the idiot here.

[SeattleGriz]

You need better news sources. Rupar was shown to be the idiot here.

[SDHornet]

The best Covid governor is doing a great job of rolling out the vaccine in NY.

New York’s slow-footed COVID-19 vaccine rollout has been a mismanaged mess, critics said Friday, with recent data showing that even Florida has doled out shots at a faster clip than the Empire State.

The harsh words come a day after The Post reported that New York State has injected less than a third of the vaccines it has — casting doubt on Mayor Bill de Blasio’s dream of jabbing a million city residents in January.

“It’s chaos out there. The state has no idea what it’s doing,” said Rensselaer County Executive Steve McLaughlin, particularly taking aim at the leadership of Gov. Andrew Cuomo.

“The Cuomo handling of the vaccine is blithering incompetence.”

https://nypost.com/2021/01/01/critics-p ... e-rollout/

State gubmints struggle to do something so simple as distribute a vaccine...

...but leftists want them making healthcare decisions from cradle to grave.

[UNI88]

The best Covid governor is doing a great job of rolling out the vaccine in NY.

New York’s slow-footed COVID-19 vaccine rollout has been a mismanaged mess, critics said Friday, with recent data showing that even Florida has doled out shots at a faster clip than the Empire State.

The harsh words come a day after The Post reported that New York State has injected less than a third of the vaccines it has — casting doubt on Mayor Bill de Blasio’s dream of jabbing a million city residents in January.

“It’s chaos out there. The state has no idea what it’s doing,” said Rensselaer County Executive Steve McLaughlin, particularly taking aim at the leadership of Gov. Andrew Cuomo.

“The Cuomo handling of the vaccine is blithering incompetence.”

https://nypost.com/2021/01/01/critics-p ... e-rollout/

State gubmints struggle to do something so simple as distribute a vaccine...

...but leftists want them making healthcare decisions from cradle to grave.

Think of the progressive benefits of getting people to the grave faster:

1. Reduced medical expenses = more money for Medicare for All.
2. People collect less of their social security benefits making the program more solvent.
3. People spending less of their personal retirement funds = increased estate tax collections help to fund the progressive wish list.
4. Old people tend to be conservative and the damn Baby Boomers are the ones who bankrupted the government for their own benefit. Fvck them, society is better off without them.

It's win/win/win/win.

Kalm, Jelly, Houndy, Jon, JSO did I miss any?