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I was thinking about the comment in AOC thread stating that Bernie is closer to Maduro than Trump is and then I came across this on FB.

Like I've been saying for years (and various polls have supported...this is just a useful meme), the American public is significantly to the left of political outcomes and the establishment of both parties.

So let's say all those things come true. What would life be like?

kalm wrote:I was thinking about the comment in AOC thread stating that Bernie is closer to Maduro than Trump is and then I came across this on FB.

Like I've been saying for years (and various polls have supported...this is just a useful meme), the American public is significantly to the left of political outcomes and the establishment of both parties.

Very few people are against not having to work for something, getting things for free, and getting things as soon as they want those things. That answers to a survey corroborate that is not necessarily surprising.

kalm wrote:I was thinking about the comment in AOC thread stating that Bernie is closer to Maduro than Trump is and then I came across this on FB.

Like I've been saying for years (and various polls have supported...this is just a useful meme), the American public is significantly to the left of political outcomes and the establishment of both parties.

People want free stuff. Shocker.

89Hen wrote:

kalm wrote:I was thinking about the comment in AOC thread stating that Bernie is closer to Maduro than Trump is and then I came across this on FB.

Like I've been saying for years (and various polls have supported...this is just a useful meme), the American public is significantly to the left of political outcomes and the establishment of both parties.

People want free stuff. Shocker.

89Hen thinks everyone wants free stuff. Shocker.

kalm wrote:I was thinking about the comment in AOC thread stating that Bernie is closer to Maduro than Trump is and then I came across this on FB.

Like I've been saying for years (and various polls have supported...this is just a useful meme), the American public is significantly to the left of political outcomes and the establishment of both parties.

Pretty much sums up why Conservative politicians continue to bang the drum of social issues (abortion, gays, religion) as well as the tried and true...."they're comin' for ya guns!!!"



By the way.....who would you trust more to NOT take your guns if they said they wouldn't take them to your face.....Obama or Trump?

89Hen wrote:

kalm wrote:I was thinking about the comment in AOC thread stating that Bernie is closer to Maduro than Trump is and then I came across this on FB.

Like I've been saying for years (and various polls have supported...this is just a useful meme), the American public is significantly to the left of political outcomes and the establishment of both parties.

People want free stuff. Shocker.

Social Security - Our own money, not socialism
Medicare - Our own money, not socialism
legalize marijuana = government out of our lives not MORE government

That’s a shitty meme.

AZGrizFan wrote:

89Hen wrote: People want free stuff. Shocker.

Social Security - Our own money, not socialism
Medicare - Our own money, not socialism
legalize marijuana = government out of our lives not MORE government

That’s a shitty meme.

Why can't an education and healthcare be another service provided by the government with taxes? Pretty much every study AND real-world example proves they positively add to an economy.

Like every other service provided by the government, it doesn't make it "socialism."

mainejeff wrote:

89Hen wrote: People want free stuff. Shocker.

89Hen thinks everyone wants free stuff. Shocker.

Jeff makes claims that aren't there. Shocker.

∞∞∞ wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Social Security - Our own money, not socialism
Medicare - Our own money, not socialism
legalize marijuana = government out of our lives not MORE government

That’s a shitty meme.

Why can't an education and healthcare be another service provided by the government with taxes? Pretty much every study AND real-world example proves they positively add to an economy.

Like every other service provided by the government, it doesn't make it "socialism."

The only way you will pay for things like that are by taxing people with more money at a higher rate. That is socialism.

https://apnews.com/4516833e7fb644c9aa8bcc11048b2169

WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans like the idea of “Medicare-for-all,” but support flips to disapproval if it would result in higher taxes or longer waits for care.

Support increased when people were told “Medicare-for-all” would guarantee health insurance as a right (71 percent) and eliminate premiums and reduce out-of-pocket costs (67 percent).

But if they were told that a government-run system could lead to delays in getting care or higher taxes, support plunged to 26 percent and 37 percent, respectively. Support fell to 32 percent if it would threaten the current Medicare program.

I've said this before, anyone who thinks people making $200k+ a year are going to be able to carry all the load is kidding themselves. People with mid to high 5-figure incomes will have to pay more taxes. If you doubt that you can look at how little of the deficit was closed when Obama let the GWB tax cuts expire (which were basically tax cuts for the rich, right?). Of course any future donk administration and congress could do what the Obama admin did with Obamacare and just lie about what it's going to cost people.

People also need to realize the bureaucracy is going to decide if they're worth it to get certain treatments and procedures. The alternative is letting hospitals milk the crap out of medicare like they do now. All this stuff sounds great to people until you get to the fine print.

89Hen wrote:

mainejeff wrote:
89Hen thinks everyone wants free stuff. Shocker.

Jeff makes claims that aren't there. Shocker.

89Hen with another lame comeback. Shocker.

∞∞∞ wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Social Security - Our own money, not socialism
Medicare - Our own money, not socialism
legalize marijuana = government out of our lives not MORE government

That’s a shitty meme.

Why can't an education and healthcare be another service provided by the government with taxes? Pretty much every study AND real-world example proves they positively add to an economy.

Like every other service provided by the government, it doesn't make it "socialism."

I’d be fine with that. Let’s close every military base in every blood-sucking European (and other) country and bring out troops home...let’s stop being the world policeman...let’s let them fend for themselves and worry about our own for a change. We can spend all that money we’d save on free education. There’s not enough money to do both.

Pwns wrote:I've said this before, anyone who thinks people making $200k+ a year are going to be able to carry all the load is kidding themselves. People with mid to high 5-figure incomes will have to pay more taxes...

If such a plan were to move forward, individuals wouldn't be the only ones taxed.

Corporations would incur higher marginal taxes as well.

∞∞∞ wrote:

Pwns wrote:I've said this before, anyone who thinks people making $200k+ a year are going to be able to carry all the load is kidding themselves. People with mid to high 5-figure incomes will have to pay more taxes...

If such a plan were to move forward, individuals wouldn't be the only ones taxed.

Corporations would incur higher marginal taxes as well.

And where do corporations get their money?

HI54UNI wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote: If such a plan were to move forward, individuals wouldn't be the only ones taxed.

Corporations would incur higher marginal taxes as well.

And where do corporations get their money?

They print it, just like everybody else, stupid!

AZGrizFan wrote:

HI54UNI wrote:
And where do corporations get their money?

They print it, just like everybody else, stupid!

No, corporations are bodiless, evil, entities straight out of hell. They are bad, very, very bad. They have no connection to people whatsoever other than as money suckers. They're like SkyNet, but worse.

People might want all those things, but ask them to open their wallets to fund them and I think you'll find a large number of people unwilling to do so. I like bridges, highways, etc. and I'm willing to fund them since I'm a user of them. Free college? Nice idea, but I have no kids and also no interest in funding it. Until the Sanders and Occasional Cortices of the world can figure out the math on making this possible without bankrupting every citizen then I'm out.
Socialism stifles innovation and incentive to do any better than the status quo because there's no incremental benefit for additional effort.

GannonFan wrote:
No, corporations are bodiless, evil, entities straight out of hell. They are bad, very, very bad. They have no connection to people whatsoever other than as money suckers. They're like SkyNet, but worse.

Now you did it....you shouldn't have mentioned their name.

Pwns wrote:https://apnews.com/4516833e7fb644c9aa8bcc11048b2169

WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans like the idea of “Medicare-for-all,” but support flips to disapproval if it would result in higher taxes or longer waits for care.

Support increased when people were told “Medicare-for-all” would guarantee health insurance as a right (71 percent) and eliminate premiums and reduce out-of-pocket costs (67 percent).

But if they were told that a government-run system could lead to delays in getting care or higher taxes, support plunged to 26 percent and 37 percent, respectively. Support fell to 32 percent if it would threaten the current Medicare program.

I've said this before, anyone who thinks people making $200k+ a year are going to be able to carry all the load is kidding themselves. People with mid to high 5-figure incomes will have to pay more taxes. If you doubt that you can look at how little of the deficit was closed when Obama let the GWB tax cuts expire (which were basically tax cuts for the rich, right?). Of course any future donk administration and congress could do what the Obama admin did with Obamacare and just lie about what it's going to cost people.

People also need to realize the bureaucracy is going to decide if they're worth it to get certain treatments and procedures. The alternative is letting hospitals milk the crap out of medicare like they do now. All this stuff sounds great to people until you get to the fine print.

Kalm's meme uses fake percentages. The poll that just came out shows 56% support medicare for all, not the 70% in the meme. And like you pointed out, support craters when mentioning could lead to delays, higher taxes & threaten current medicare.

I believe the government should absolutely be involved with 4 things:

1. Environment
2. Healthcare
3. Transportation
4. National Security

mainejeff wrote:I believe the government should absolutely be involved with 4 things:

1. Environment
2. Healthcare
3. Transportation
4. National Security

The discussions start more with how involved.

GannonFan wrote:

kalm wrote:I was thinking about the comment in AOC thread stating that Bernie is closer to Maduro than Trump is and then I came across this on FB.

Like I've been saying for years (and various polls have supported...this is just a useful meme), the American public is significantly to the left of political outcomes and the establishment of both parties.

Very few people are against not having to work for something, getting things for free, and getting things as soon as they want those things. That answers to a survey corroborate that is not necessarily surprising.

And the spoiled Millenials are beginning to enter the political realm. Hopefully I am gone before all this horse dung comes to pass.


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mainejeff wrote:

kalm wrote:I was thinking about the comment in AOC thread stating that Bernie is closer to Maduro than Trump is and then I came across this on FB.

Like I've been saying for years (and various polls have supported...this is just a useful meme), the American public is significantly to the left of political outcomes and the establishment of both parties.

Pretty much sums up why Conservative politicians continue to bang the drum of social issues (abortion, gays, religion) as well as the tried and true...."they're comin' for ya guns!!!"



By the way.....who would you trust more to NOT take your guns if they said they wouldn't take them to your face.....Obama or Trump?

Trump, Obama did the worst lie about keeping your doctor.


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ASUG8 wrote:People might want all those things, but ask them to open their wallets to fund them and I think you'll find a large number of people unwilling to do so. I like bridges, highways, etc. and I'm willing to fund them since I'm a user of them. Free college? Nice idea, but I have no kids and also no interest in funding it. Until the Sanders and Occasional Cortices of the world can figure out the math on making this possible without bankrupting every citizen then I'm out.
Socialism stifles innovation and incentive to do any better than the status quo because there's no incremental benefit for additional effort.

Yeah but we don’t HAVE to open our wallets... we can just borrow the money and there will be no pain for us right now


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