All Things California

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Re: All Things California

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am
GannonFan wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:08 am

They do, no argument there. Difference will be the vastly more public nature of government, and people's elected officials, being the ones so close to the death panels. Government has a way of being a lightning rod for things they get closely involved with, and the death panels will be no different.
Especially when the government is controlled by special interests.
It's a government of, by, and for the people. Why do you hate people so much?? :coffee:
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Re: All Things California

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:09 am
kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am

Especially when the government is controlled by special interests.
It's a government of, by, and for the people. Why do you hate people so much?? :coffee:
“The people”. Some groups but not all.

Why do you hate some groups of people? Why do you hate democracy?

:love:
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Re: All Things California

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am
GannonFan wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:08 am
They do, no argument there. Difference will be the vastly more public nature of government, and people's elected officials, being the ones so close to the death panels. Government has a way of being a lightning rod for things they get closely involved with, and the death panels will be no different.
Especially when the government is controlled by special interests.
You do realize that minorities, women, people below the poverty level, etc. are all "special interests".
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: All Things California

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:18 am
GannonFan wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:09 am

It's a government of, by, and for the people. Why do you hate people so much?? :coffee:
“The people”. Some groups but not all.

Why do you hate some groups of people? Why do you hate democracy?

:love:
Wait, who's not allowed to participate in our democracy? We should get to work on some amendments right now to make sure that everyone who's a legal citizen of this country is allowed to participate in this democracy. Who are we missing? :coffee:
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Re: All Things California

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:33 am
kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:18 am

“The people”. Some groups but not all.

Why do you hate some groups of people? Why do you hate democracy?

:love:
Wait, who's not allowed to participate in our democracy? We should get to work on some amendments right now to make sure that everyone who's a legal citizen of this country is allowed to participate in this democracy. Who are we missing? :coffee:
Participatory government is a good thing. When problems (financial, healthcare, environmental et al) become acute people might become more interested. I think we’re fairly close to agreement here.
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Re: All Things California

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:20 am
kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am

Especially when the government is controlled by special interests.
You do realize that minorities, women, people below the poverty level, etc. are all "special interests".
Yes they are. Some of them are more global than others. Some of them lack the access and funding to get government to work for them.
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Re: All Things California

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:35 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:20 am

You do realize that minorities, women, people below the poverty level, etc. are all "special interests".
Yes they are. Some of them are more global than others. Some of them lack the access and funding to get government to work for them.
So you advocate for giving them a bigger voice while restricting others' access?
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Re: All Things California

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:46 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:35 pm

Yes they are. Some of them are more global than others. Some of them lack the access and funding to get government to work for them.
So you advocate for giving them a bigger voice while restricting others' access?
No. Circumstances will create the change.

EG: it would be interesting to see polling on healthcare that separates out the level of recent healthcare interactions. The more people who have personal experience with our broken system, the greater the demand for change.
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Re: All Things California

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:08 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:46 pm
So you advocate for giving them a bigger voice while restricting others' access?
No. Circumstances will create the change.

EG: it would be interesting to see polling on healthcare that separates out the level of recent healthcare interactions. The more people who have personal experience with our broken system, the greater the demand for change.
Your other posts say yes ...
kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:16 am We’ve more than likely debated them ad nauseam.

Medicare for all.

Money out of politics.

To name a couple. I know you’ll disagree.
Taking money out of politics is restricting others' access.
...
I'm all for changing and improving our healthcare system. I just don't want to copy what someone else is doing and think it will work here without any unintended consequences. I think we can come up with a better system that works for who we are. Maybe I just have more faith in America and the American people.
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Re: All Things California

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:20 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:08 pm

No. Circumstances will create the change.

EG: it would be interesting to see polling on healthcare that separates out the level of recent healthcare interactions. The more people who have personal experience with our broken system, the greater the demand for change.
Your other posts say yes ...
kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:16 am We’ve more than likely debated them ad nauseam.

Medicare for all.

Money out of politics.

To name a couple. I know you’ll disagree.
Taking money out of politics is restricting others' access.
...
I'm all for changing and improving our healthcare system. I just don't want to copy what someone else is doing and think it will work here without any unintended consequences. I think we can come up with a better system that works for who we are. Maybe I just have more faith in America and the American people.
Two different questions and there are changes I won’t agree with. Access is going to be restricted, I’m talking about equity. Or should we pretend that John Q Public has the same political access that Zuckerberg has?
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Re: All Things California

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:44 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:20 pm

Your other posts say yes ...



Taking money out of politics is restricting others' access.
...
I'm all for changing and improving our healthcare system. I just don't want to copy what someone else is doing and think it will work here without any unintended consequences. I think we can come up with a better system that works for who we are. Maybe I just have more faith in America and the American people.
Two different questions and there are changes I won’t agree with. Access is going to be restricted, I’m talking about equity. Or should we pretend that John Q Public has the same political access that Zuckerberg has?
In general, the pursuit of equity historically has always resulted in taking things away from others in order to make it equitable. The least common denominator. I'm not sure how pursuing equity gives us a better government, which should really be the goal, not some pursuit that has nothing to do with bettering government.
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Re: All Things California

Post by Skjellyfetti »

What did we take away from men when we gave women the right to vote?
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Re: All Things California

Post by CID1990 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:What did we take away from men when we gave women the right to vote?
Shut up with the passive aggressive questions and couch an actual argument.

You and klam hide from defending what you actually believe with nauseating frequency

Make your point clearly and defend it.


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Re: All Things California

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Our government is representative. Every step towards equality means that it represents more of the people. Representative government is better when it represents more of the people. QED.




Do *you* have a point on this topic or are you just hiding behind your crotchety old man persona to take shots?
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Re: All Things California

Post by CID1990 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Our government is representative. Every step towards equality means that it represents more of the people. Representative government is better when it represents more of the people. QED.




Do *you* have a point on this topic or are you just hiding behind your crotchety old man persona to take shots?
Skjellyfetti wrote:Our government is representative. Every step towards equality means that it represents more of the people. Representative government is better when it represents more of the people. QED.




Do *you* have a point on this topic or are you just hiding behind your crotchety old man persona to take shots?
You mean a point beyond pointing out your limp wristed non sequitur, Reek?

No.


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Re: All Things California

Post by GannonFan »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:36 pm Our government is representative. Every step towards equality means that it represents more of the people. Representative government is better when it represents more of the people. QED.




Do *you* have a point on this topic or are you just hiding behind your crotchety old man persona to take shots?
Equality is a different argument than equity. Your example earlier of women getting the right to vote was a matter of equality. I'll argue for equality for all until the cows come home, that's an easy agreement. It's when you get to equity, i.e. equal outcomes, that I diverge. Did you mean to conflate the two or was that just an oversight? :coffee:
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Re: All Things California

Post by Ivytalk »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:44 am
Skjellyfetti wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:36 pm Our government is representative. Every step towards equality means that it represents more of the people. Representative government is better when it represents more of the people. QED.




Do *you* have a point on this topic or are you just hiding behind your crotchety old man persona to take shots?
Equality is a different argument than equity. Your example earlier of women getting the right to vote was a matter of equality. I'll argue for equality for all until the cows come home, that's an easy agreement. It's when you get to equity, i.e. equal outcomes, that I diverge. Did you mean to conflate the two or was that just an oversight? :coffee:
Analjelly doesn’t know the difference, Ganny. “Equity” with its subjective result-oriented overlay is a threat to our democracy. “Equality” is not, and it’s already here.
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Re: All Things California

Post by SDHornet »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:44 am
Skjellyfetti wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:36 pm Our government is representative. Every step towards equality means that it represents more of the people. Representative government is better when it represents more of the people. QED.




Do *you* have a point on this topic or are you just hiding behind your crotchety old man persona to take shots?
Equality is a different argument than equity. Your example earlier of women getting the right to vote was a matter of equality. I'll argue for equality for all until the cows come home, that's an easy agreement. It's when you get to equity, i.e. equal outcomes, that I diverge. Did you mean to conflate the two or was that just an oversight? :coffee:
This. The Leftists conflate "equality" with "equity" because the common idiot on the street isn't smart enough to know the difference. There a difference, a big difference.
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Re: All Things California

Post by SDHornet »

Ivytalk wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:56 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:44 am

Equality is a different argument than equity. Your example earlier of women getting the right to vote was a matter of equality. I'll argue for equality for all until the cows come home, that's an easy agreement. It's when you get to equity, i.e. equal outcomes, that I diverge. Did you mean to conflate the two or was that just an oversight? :coffee:
Analjelly doesn’t know the difference, Ganny. “Equity” with its subjective result-oriented overlay is a threat to our democracy. “Equality” is not, and it’s already here.
jelly knows the difference, this is the game the Leftists play. They try to conflate the two and it needs to be called out for what it is.
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Re: All Things California

Post by houndawg »

GannonFan wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:33 am
kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:18 am

“The people”. Some groups but not all.

Why do you hate some groups of people? Why do you hate democracy?

:love:
Wait, who's not allowed to participate in our democracy? We should get to work on some amendments right now to make sure that everyone who's a legal citizen of this country is allowed to participate in this democracy. Who are we missing? :coffee:
Georgia is busily working on that very question as we speak. Stay tumed. :coffee:
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
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Re: All Things California

Post by houndawg »

GannonFan wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:44 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:44 pm

Two different questions and there are changes I won’t agree with. Access is going to be restricted, I’m talking about equity. Or should we pretend that John Q Public has the same political access that Zuckerberg has?
In general, the pursuit of equity historically has always resulted in taking things away from others in order to make it equitable. The least common denominator. I'm not sure how pursuing equity gives us a better government, which should really be the goal, not some pursuit that has nothing to do with bettering government.
What is this "better government" of which you speak?
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
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Re: All Things California

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:56 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:44 am

Equality is a different argument than equity. Your example earlier of women getting the right to vote was a matter of equality. I'll argue for equality for all until the cows come home, that's an easy agreement. It's when you get to equity, i.e. equal outcomes, that I diverge. Did you mean to conflate the two or was that just an oversight? :coffee:
Analjelly doesn’t know the difference, Ganny. “Equity” with its subjective result-oriented overlay is a threat to our democracy. “Equality” is not, and it’s already here.
I didn’t know “equity” was such a triggering term!

:rofl:
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Re: All Things California

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:01 pm
Skjellyfetti wrote:What did we take away from men when we gave women the right to vote?
Shut up with the passive aggressive questions and couch an actual argument.

You and klam hide from defending what you actually believe with nauseating frequency

Make your point clearly and defend it.


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Open mindedness and observation is hard!!!

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Re: All Things California

Post by GannonFan »

houndawg wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:40 am
GannonFan wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:33 am

Wait, who's not allowed to participate in our democracy? We should get to work on some amendments right now to make sure that everyone who's a legal citizen of this country is allowed to participate in this democracy. Who are we missing? :coffee:
Georgia is busily working on that very question as we speak. Stay tumed. :coffee:
Really? That's what you come back with? Georgia is not allowing certain groups to participate in democracy? Are they doing that by mandating the use of early voting drop boxes? Are they stopping people from voting by ensuring weekend voting and even voting on Sundays? What will Georgia do next to stop people from voting - mandate that people already in line when the voting period ends are still allowed to vote? The outrage. :rofl:
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Re: All Things California

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:22 am
Ivytalk wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:56 am

Analjelly doesn’t know the difference, Ganny. “Equity” with its subjective result-oriented overlay is a threat to our democracy. “Equality” is not, and it’s already here.
I didn’t know “equity” was such a triggering term!

:rofl:
Nah, it's not the term that's triggering, it's the intentional ignorance of what that term actually means and how we go about achieving that term that's triggering. But I think you already know that, but acknowledging that doesn't lend itself to snarky retorts. Pity.
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