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Pretty soon every man with any power will be in trouble. Then they'll move on to anyone that's been mean to someone else. So...all of our days are numbered.

So I take it you didn't bother to read the article

dbackjon wrote:So I take it you didn't bother to read the article

I read the article. I've followed the news since it broke. You missed the point of my post, not surprising.

Any celeb, politician, CEO, owner, etc... will be taken to task over sexual allegations, dirty words, etc... even if it occurred 50 years ago. Even if there was a legal settlement. People are out for blood. Eventually a blink will become a wink and that'll be a sexual advance. The people coming out after legal settlements have my ire. They've accepted a legal remedy to the mistreatment. That seems shitty to me.

Ibanez wrote:Pretty soon every man with any power will be in trouble. Then they'll move on to anyone that's been mean to someone else. So...all of our days are numbered.

Bullshit, you just dont let stuff like that happen to you, be a man stand up and tell these fucking liars your going to jail but its going to be for assault not slapping a hot ass

I'm thinking AZ has a point of never meeting alone with a female without another person present as a rule.

We're just supposed to act like robots in the work place, nothing personal will ever be said.

Which is sad, I work with a lot of females.

I always left the door open when speaking with a female subordinate. A person cannot be too careful these days.


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andy7171 wrote:I'm thinking AZ has a point of never meeting alone with a female without another person present as a rule.

That's the Mike Pence route, and he was blasted for that because it somehow "discriminated" against female employees in the DC workplace. That's bologna in my book....

SuperHornet wrote:

andy7171 wrote:I'm thinking AZ has a point of never meeting alone with a female without another person present as a rule.

That's the Mike Pence route, and he was blasted for that because it somehow "discriminated" against female employees in the DC workplace. That's bologna in my book....

No, he was blasted for that because of his wife's mistrust of his or the other woman's intentions. I can have lunch with a woman without raping her or giving in to her advances. Perhaps some cannot be trusted to do the same.

kalm wrote:

SuperHornet wrote:
That's the Mike Pence route, and he was blasted for that because it somehow "discriminated" against female employees in the DC workplace. That's bologna in my book....

No, he was blasted for that because of his wife's mistrust of his or the other woman's intentions. I can have lunch with a woman without raping her or giving in to her advances. Perhaps some cannot be trusted to do the same.

Can you, as a public official, fend off her accusation that you asked her to stick her fingers in your ass in exchange for favorable treatment

It isn't about what you do when you are alone with a woman, klam. Its about what they SAY you do...

Lost in all of this that women can be assholes and liars as much as men


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kalm wrote:

SuperHornet wrote:
That's the Mike Pence route, and he was blasted for that because it somehow "discriminated" against female employees in the DC workplace. That's bologna in my book....

No, he was blasted for that because of his wife's mistrust of his or the other woman's intentions. I can have lunch with a woman without raping her or giving in to her advances. Perhaps some cannot be trusted to do the same.

It’s not ME that I’m worried about. If I’m having a closed door meeting with a female, the current climate has proven if SHE says something happened, it doesn’t even matter if it’s true. People are now fired on ACCUSATION, not fact. So, I choose not to even allow the situation to present itself. I ALWAYS have a witness.

AZGrizFan wrote:

kalm wrote:
No, he was blasted for that because of his wife's mistrust of his or the other woman's intentions. I can have lunch with a woman without raping her or giving in to her advances. Perhaps some cannot be trusted to do the same.

It’s not ME that I’m worried about. If I’m having a closed door meeting with a female, the current climate has proven if SHE says something happened, it doesn’t even matter if it’s true. People are now fired on ACCUSATION, not fact. So, I choose not to even allow the situation to present itself. I ALWAYS have a witness.

That’s a good policy!

But have you ditched the TTYFKN vanity tag? In this environment, you never know what might set someone off...

CID1990 wrote:

kalm wrote:
No, he was blasted for that because of his wife's mistrust of his or the other woman's intentions. I can have lunch with a woman without raping her or giving in to her advances. Perhaps some cannot be trusted to do the same.

Can you, as a public official, fend off her accusation that you asked her to stick her fingers in your ass in exchange for favorable treatment

It isn't about what you do when you are alone with a woman, klam. Its about what they SAY you do...

Lost in all of this that women can be assholes and liars as much as men


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Good point. I guess I'm still going off the pre-Weinstein culture but keep in mind, this stemmed from an interview with Pence in 2002.

And unless you refuse to have closed door meetings with everyone, isn't this entire deal rather sexist? What about the gays? Lesbians shouldn't have closed door meetings either.

Then there's the notion that in the end it hurts women's opportunities for advancement and closing the gender gap due to missed opportunities in mentorship and schmoozing as pointed out in this article...https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... rs/521286/

Should I never schedule a male and a female to close the shop together at night knowing they'll eventually be the only two people there finishing their work after the customers have left...alone...at night...male AND female? And there are times, where I go in and help close and lock up...with just me...and a woman.

Perhaps I should only hire men? (I'd say women, but I don't like the idea of a woman by herself, locking the doors at night at a rural business where drunk stalker golfers tend to linger far too long - call me old fashioned...I mean sexist.)

And again, what about the gay? Sorry Bob and Gary, I just can't schedule you two together...alone...and I THINK you know why...

You can't win.

But Pence is still a weirdo.

Kalm, this crap has been going on long before 2002, glad I am retired so I don’t have to worry about crap like this. BTW Kalm are you from Spokane Co? That place makes LIVE PD very interesting.


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kalm wrote:

CID1990 wrote:
Can you, as a public official, fend off her accusation that you asked her to stick her fingers in your ass in exchange for favorable treatment

It isn't about what you do when you are alone with a woman, klam. Its about what they SAY you do...

Lost in all of this that women can be assholes and liars as much as men


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Good point. I guess I'm still going off the pre-Weinstein culture but keep in mind, this stemmed from an interview with Pence in 2002.

And unless you refuse to have closed door meetings with everyone, isn't this entire deal rather sexist? What about the gays? Lesbians shouldn't have closed door meetings either.

Then there's the notion that in the end it hurts women's opportunities for advancement and closing the gender gap due to missed opportunities in mentorship and schmoozing as pointed out in this article...https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... rs/521286/

Should I never schedule a male and a female to close the shop together at night knowing they'll eventually be the only two people there finishing their work after the customers have left...alone...at night...male AND female? And there are times, where I go in and help close and lock up...with just me...and a woman.

Perhaps I should only hire men? (I'd say women, but I don't like the idea of a woman by herself, locking the doors at night at a rural business where drunk stalker golfers tend to linger far too long - call me old fashioned...I mean sexist.)

And again, what about the gay? Sorry Bob and Gary, I just can't schedule you two together...alone...and I THINK you know why...

You can't win.

But Pence is still a weirdo.

There is no way to be consistent

That is partly due to the fact that men generally act like cretins more than women in the workplace, making allegations by women more believable

which is also indicative of the fact that as much as we want to deny it.... stereotypes are mostly based in observable facts

so if I get accused of offering favors for sex, I get fired at best

whereas if I get accused of treating women differently in that I do not feel comfortable being alone with them, I might get an EEO complaint but Im still on the job

Its just like the old cop adage, "Its better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6."


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kalm wrote:But Pence is still a weirdo.

If it's "weird" in your book to honor your wife, then so be it. I happen to agree with Pence....

Another thing to remember is that it's not always the obvious "victim" who gets you busted. Quite often, when it comes to "harassment," some women at the office will go with you line for line with the banter, but ANOTHER woman can somehow feel "harassed" and get you canned.

For me, it's best to just avoid the banter altogether. That way, NOBODY can bust you for that. Particularly if you don't allow yourself to be alone with one of the women there. In this day and age, as one of you have already said, all it takes is an accusation, and the ASSUMPTION is that she's telling the truth. In many cases, she is, but there's no guarantee of that, so it's best to go out of your way to avoid the situation altogether....

kalm wrote:

CID1990 wrote:
Can you, as a public official, fend off her accusation that you asked her to stick her fingers in your ass in exchange for favorable treatment

It isn't about what you do when you are alone with a woman, klam. Its about what they SAY you do...

Lost in all of this that women can be assholes and liars as much as men


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good point. I guess I'm still going off the pre-Weinstein culture but keep in mind, this stemmed from an interview with Pence in 2002.

And unless you refuse to have closed door meetings with everyone, isn't this entire deal rather sexist? What about the gays? Lesbians shouldn't have closed door meetings either.

Then there's the notion that in the end it hurts women's opportunities for advancement and closing the gender gap due to missed opportunities in mentorship and schmoozing as pointed out in this article...https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... rs/521286/

Should I never schedule a male and a female to close the shop together at night knowing they'll eventually be the only two people there finishing their work after the customers have left...alone...at night...male AND female? And there are times, where I go in and help close and lock up...with just me...and a woman.

Perhaps I should only hire men? (I'd say women, but I don't like the idea of a woman by herself, locking the doors at night at a rural business where drunk stalker golfers tend to linger far too long - call me old fashioned...I mean sexist.)

And again, what about the gay? Sorry Bob and Gary, I just can't schedule you two together...alone...and I THINK you know why...

You can't win.

But Pence is still a weirdo.

I have very, very few closed door meetings as a matter of principle. If I DO have to have one, I make sure there’s another person in the room besides me and the person in question.

SO does Matt Lauer................

SuperHornet wrote:Another thing to remember is that it's not always the obvious "victim" who gets you busted. Quite often, when it comes to "harassment," some women at the office will go with you line for line with the banter, but ANOTHER woman can somehow feel "harassed" and get you canned.

For me, it's best to just avoid the banter altogether. That way, NOBODY can bust you for that. Particularly if you don't allow yourself to be alone with one of the women there. In this day and age, as one of you have already said, all it takes is an accusation, and the ASSUMPTION is that she's telling the truth. In many cases, she is, but there's no guarantee of that, so it's best to go out of your way to avoid the situation altogether....

It's often not banter. It's often quid pro quo to keep or accelerate your career.

Ibanez wrote:

SuperHornet wrote:Another thing to remember is that it's not always the obvious "victim" who gets you busted. Quite often, when it comes to "harassment," some women at the office will go with you line for line with the banter, but ANOTHER woman can somehow feel "harassed" and get you canned.

For me, it's best to just avoid the banter altogether. That way, NOBODY can bust you for that. Particularly if you don't allow yourself to be alone with one of the women there. In this day and age, as one of you have already said, all it takes is an accusation, and the ASSUMPTION is that she's telling the truth. In many cases, she is, but there's no guarantee of that, so it's best to go out of your way to avoid the situation altogether....

It's often not banter. It's often quid pro quo to keep or accelerate your career.

Tit for tat.