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http://www.salon.com/2017/07/08/trumps- ... hat-it-is/



And there's some Godwinist garbage in there to boot.

Just wondering: What isn't racist these days?

Salon is totally around the bend.

I do think that...yes...Caucasian European civilization is disproportionately responsible for the world as we know it for better or for worse. There's no way to know because we can't create the scenario but I don't think we'd have the scientific method as we know it, the internal combustion engine, aircraft, antibiotics, the harnessing of electricity, computers as we know them, a history of having landed on the moon, satellites orbiting the Earth, nuclear weapons, and a whole bunch of other things without it. I think if you could somehow go back and eliminate the civilization we're talking about the human race would still be riding horses around...in SOME places while other places wouldn't even be doing THAT... and living in a world without things like power grids. No TV. No telephones. No air conditioning. Etc.

But it's not cool to say that.

Ivytalk wrote:Salon is totally around the bend.

Liberalism has been self immolating now for years...
but the past 12 months have been the saddest for me to watch

Chizzang wrote:

Ivytalk wrote:Salon is totally around the bend.

Liberalism has been self immolating now for years...
but the past 12 months have been the saddest for me to watch

It isn't self immolating

What Salon and others represent isn't liberalism

CID1990 wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
Liberalism has been self immolating now for years...
but the past 12 months have been the saddest for me to watch

It isn't self immolating

What Salon and others represent isn't liberalism

You got me, I give up..
What do they represent..?

Of course I'm the guy that thinks George Will is a conservative, so there's that...

Chizzang wrote:

CID1990 wrote:
It isn't self immolating

What Salon and others represent isn't liberalism

You got me, I give up..
What do they represent..?

Of course I'm the guy that thinks George Will is a conservative, so there's that...

George Will is a conservative. You haven't completely lost it.

Chizzang wrote:

CID1990 wrote:
It isn't self immolating

What Salon and others represent isn't liberalism

You got me, I give up..
What do they represent..?

Of course I'm the guy that thinks George Will is a conservative, so there's that...

Sorry I was too cryptic

There was no profound meaning there, I just was making a bad allusion to liberalism and American-flavor "progressivism" being different things

CID1990 wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
You got me, I give up..
What do they represent..?

Of course I'm the guy that thinks George Will is a conservative, so there's that...

Sorry I was too cryptic

There was no profound meaning there, I just was making a bad allusion to liberalism and American-flavor "progressivism" being different things

I dislike movements as much as I dislike labels.

kalm wrote:

CID1990 wrote:
Sorry I was too cryptic

There was no profound meaning there, I just was making a bad allusion to liberalism and American-flavor "progressivism" being different things

I dislike movements as much as I dislike labels.

I believe that's called the anti-label movement. They might even have bumper stickers if you're interested.

GannonFan wrote:

kalm wrote:
I dislike movements as much as I dislike labels.

I believe that's called the anti-label movement. They might even have bumper stickers if you're interested.

JohnStOnge wrote:I do think that...yes...Caucasian European civilization is disproportionately responsible for the world as we know it for better or for worse. There's no way to know because we can't create the scenario but I don't think we'd have the scientific method as we know it, the internal combustion engine, aircraft, antibiotics, the harnessing of electricity, computers as we know them, a history of having landed on the moon, satellites orbiting the Earth, nuclear weapons, and a whole bunch of other things without it. I think if you could somehow go back and eliminate the civilization we're talking about the human race would still be riding horses around...in SOME places while other places wouldn't even be doing THAT... and living in a world without things like power grids. No TV. No telephones. No air conditioning. Etc.

But it's not cool to say that.

Trump is pretty much unapologetic in saying things like mass immigration from the middle east with no expectation of assimilation is dangerous and saying black incarceration is the result of black crime and not racism.

Trump does not think Pat Robertson and Ken Ham are more dangerous than trying to integrate Islamic fundamentalists into society, and that's why he's as hated as he is by the left as he is, not because of his behavior or maturity. That's why the "grab 'em by the pussy" thing is a problem but having Bill Clinton leaving a trail of women making accusations of taking too many liberties is not a problem for the "how am I supposed to explain this to my daughter" idiots.

Trump is the anti-egalitarian president. And by "egalitarian" I use it in the sense you use it.

Out of context, phrases like “church, kitchen, children,” “hard work is ennobling,” “God is with us” or “one people, one nation, one leader” could be defended as traditionalist entreaties about the importance of family values, a work ethic, faith and patriotism. Translate them back into the original German, however, and they are easily recognizable as popular Nazi slogans.

Which isn’t to say that Trump is a Nazi, but he shares their authoritarian DNA. And this is what authoritarians do: They wrap their grotesque ideas in ennobling rhetoric of tradition, patriotism or family. That’s why their words need to be understood in context, rather than playing this game where a few unobjectionable quotes are taken out of context and held out to be not-that-bad.

What a complete fucking tool.

Pwns wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:I do think that...yes...Caucasian European civilization is disproportionately responsible for the world as we know it for better or for worse. There's no way to know because we can't create the scenario but I don't think we'd have the scientific method as we know it, the internal combustion engine, aircraft, antibiotics, the harnessing of electricity, computers as we know them, a history of having landed on the moon, satellites orbiting the Earth, nuclear weapons, and a whole bunch of other things without it. I think if you could somehow go back and eliminate the civilization we're talking about the human race would still be riding horses around...in SOME places while other places wouldn't even be doing THAT... and living in a world without things like power grids. No TV. No telephones. No air conditioning. Etc.

But it's not cool to say that.

Trump is pretty much unapologetic in saying things like mass immigration from the middle east with no expectation of assimilation is dangerous and saying black incarceration is the result of black crime and not racism.

Trump does not think Pat Robertson and Ken Ham are more dangerous than trying to integrate Islamic fundamentalists into society, and that's why he's as hated as he is by the left as he is, not because of his behavior or maturity. That's why the "grab 'em by the pussy" thing is a problem but having Bill Clinton leaving a trail of women making accusations of taking too many liberties is not a problem for the "how am I supposed to explain this to my daughter" idiots.

Trump is the anti-egalitarian president. And by "egalitarian" I use it in the sense you use it.

He should apologize for fraternizing with Saudi Arabia.

There is a rather obvious degree of racism involved with black crime...https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... c82c27d01c

I think we should try an integrate Pat Robertson and Ken Hamm into society. Forget about the muslims.

Chizzang wrote:

Ivytalk wrote:Salon is totally around the bend.

Liberalism has been self immolating now for years...
but the past 12 months have been the saddest for me to watch

Saddest... you mean most awesomely funny.

kalm wrote:
There is a rather obvious degree of racism involved with black crime...https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... c82c27d01c

I think we should try an integrate Pat Robertson and Ken Hamm into society. Forget about the muslims.

No, kalm, it's not obvious at all.

First of all, the accuracy of self-reported drug use across races is dubious. See This. And also see this. According to both of those blacks under-report drug use more than whites do.

Second, the issue of concurrent charges complicates using arrests statistics (e.g. how many drug offenses occur when someone is speeding or driving recklessly?)

Third, there's the question of how well you do of keeping your drug use hidden from police (which relates to the last point).

Ivytalk wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
You got me, I give up..
What do they represent..?

Of course I'm the guy that thinks George Will is a conservative, so there's that...

George Will is a conservative. You haven't completely lost it.

If George Will is a conservative, then Bernie Sanders is a moderate, Lindsey Graham and John McCain are conservatives, and Hillary Clinton is a blue dog Democrat.


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Jjoey52 wrote:

Ivytalk wrote: George Will is a conservative. You haven't completely lost it.

If George Will is a conservative, then Bernie Sanders is a moderate, Lindsey Graham and John McCain are conservatives, and Hillary Clinton is a blue dog Democrat.


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Hhave it yyour wway.

JohnStOnge wrote:I do think that...yes...Caucasian European civilization is disproportionately responsible for the world as we know it for better or for worse. There's no way to know because we can't create the scenario but I don't think we'd have the scientific method as we know it, the internal combustion engine, aircraft, antibiotics, the harnessing of electricity, computers as we know them, a history of having landed on the moon, satellites orbiting the Earth, nuclear weapons, and a whole bunch of other things without it. I think if you could somehow go back and eliminate the civilization we're talking about the human race would still be riding horses around...in SOME places while other places wouldn't even be doing THAT... and living in a world without things like power grids. No TV. No telephones. No air conditioning. Etc.

But it's not cool to say that.

Are you saying white people or western civilization? There is a big difference. There have been people of all colors who have contributed to the greatness of our country. I hate to agree with trump but he is right. However, you have to state that if it were not for Africa, the Middle East and Asia, Europe would have never known about Algebra, geometry, Modern Medicine or astronomy. It took the Crusades before Europeans learned that they needed to wash there hands before they operated on a person. But just saying. Like your view point

mrklean wrote: Are you saying white people or western civilization? There is a big difference. There have been people of all colors who have contributed to the greatness of our country. I hate to agree with trump but he is right. However, you have to state that if it were not for Africa, the Middle East and Asia, Europe would have never known about Algebra, geometry, Modern Medicine or astronomy. It took the Crusades before Europeans learned that they needed to wash there hands before they operated on a person. But just saying. Like your view point

Modern medicine? You're talking about many centuries before Koch's postulates or primitive anesthesia.

Also, it's news to me that Euclid was black or an Ay-Rab.

Pwns wrote:

mrklean wrote: Are you saying white people or western civilization? There is a big difference. There have been people of all colors who have contributed to the greatness of our country. I hate to agree with trump but he is right. However, you have to state that if it were not for Africa, the Middle East and Asia, Europe would have never known about Algebra, geometry, Modern Medicine or astronomy. It took the Crusades before Europeans learned that they needed to wash there hands before they operated on a person. But just saying. Like your view point

Modern medicine? You're talking about many centuries before Koch's postulates or primitive anesthesia.

Also, it's news to me that Euclid was black or an Ay-Rab.

Do you want a more up to date list? I can provide one for you

Jjoey52 wrote:

Ivytalk wrote: George Will is a conservative. You haven't completely lost it.

If George Will is a conservative, then Bernie Sanders is a moderate, Lindsey Graham and John McCain are conservatives, and Hillary Clinton is a blue dog Democrat.

And in your world, Ronald Reagan, Ike and Teddy Roosevelt wouldn't be true conservatives or Republicans.

Conservative is an ambiguous word with lots of meanings and too many fools think they are the final arbiter on who is and isn't a conservative.

FTR, Hillary is a neoconservative just like Dubya.

UNI88 wrote:

Jjoey52 wrote: If George Will is a conservative, then Bernie Sanders is a moderate, Lindsey Graham and John McCain are conservatives, and Hillary Clinton is a blue dog Democrat.

FTR, Hillary is a neoconservative just like Dubya.

I've been saying this for a looong time

Except that Dubya wasn't really a neocon- he just surrounded himself with them.

In terms of neoconservative foreign policy, Hillary has been a full on acolyte of Leo Strauss himself - the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya.

"We came, we saw, he died."


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UNI88 wrote:

Jjoey52 wrote: If George Will is a conservative, then Bernie Sanders is a moderate, Lindsey Graham and John McCain are conservatives, and Hillary Clinton is a blue dog Democrat.

And in your world, Ronald Reagan, Ike and Teddy Roosevelt wouldn't be true conservatives or Republicans.

Conservative is an ambiguous word with lots of meanings and too many fools think they are the final arbiter on who is and isn't a conservative.

FTR, Hillary is a neoconservative just like Dubya.

And Friedman, Hayek, Greenspan, Thatcher and Reagan were neo-liberals.

Labels are tricky and I love this topic.

kalm wrote:

UNI88 wrote: And in your world, Ronald Reagan, Ike and Teddy Roosevelt wouldn't be true conservatives or Republicans.

Conservative is an ambiguous word with lots of meanings and too many fools think they are the final arbiter on who is and isn't a conservative.

FTR, Hillary is a neoconservative just like Dubya.

And Friedman, Hayek, Greenspan, Thatcher and Reagan were neo-liberals.

Labels are tricky and I love this topic.

Because you are an unreconstructed kalmunist.