Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

[BDKJMU]

Sec 702 of the FISA Act that has enabled those 1 million warrantless searches of Americans expires at the end of this year. Congress shouldn’t reauthorize it.
https://washingtontimes.com/news/2023/a ... -reauthor/

I bet they pull the usual. "Oh we're really serious about cleaning up the surveiling of Americans, but it is crucial to capturing terrorists". It'll pass.

But now we only violated Americans’ rights 120,000 times, so we’re getting better!
https://redstate.com/jeffc/2023/05/08/t ... ts-n742974
The FBI has become hopelessly corrupted..

[kalm]

Something tells me some of you may owe Skelly an apology soon.

[UNI88]

Something tells me some of you may owe Skelly an apology soon.

Here's what the Durham report had to say ...

REPORT ON MATTERS RELATED TO INTELLIGENCE ACTIVITIES AND INVESTIGATIONS ARISING OUT OF THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS

Based on the review of Crossfire Hurricane and related intelligence activities, we conclude that the Department and the FBI failed to uphold their important mission of strict fidelity to the law in connection with certain events and activities described in this report. As noted, former FBI attorney Kevin Clinesmith committed a criminal offense by fabricating language in an email that was material to the FBI obtaining a FISA surveillance order. In other instances, FBI personnel working on that same FISA application displayed, at best, a cavalier attitude towards accuracy and completeness. FBI personnel also repeatedly disregarded important requirements when they continued to seek renewals of that FISA surveillance while acknowledging -both then and in hindsight -that they did not genuinely believe there was probable cause to believe that the target was knowingly engaged in clandestine intelligence 17 activities on behalf of a foreign power, or knowingly helping another person in such activities. And certain personnel disregarded significant exculpatory information that should have prompted investigative restraint and re-examination.

Our investigation also revealed that senior FBI personnel displayed a serious lack of analytical rigor towards the information that they received, especially information received from politically affiliated persons and entities. This information in part triggered and sustained Crossfire Hurricane and contributed to the subsequent need for Special Counsel Mueller's investigation. In particular, there was significant reliance on investigative leads provided or funded (directly or indirectly) by Trump's political opponents. The Department did not adequately examine or question these materials and the motivations of those providing them, even when at about the same time the Director of the FBI and others learned of significant and potentially contrary intelligence.

[BDKJMU]

Proves what we all know- the FBI is crooked, and needs a major house cleaning.

[kalm]

Proves what we all know- the FBI is crooked, and needs a major house cleaning.

Can we include Trump and Durham in the crookedness as well?

[SeattleGriz]

If you care to see the work of The Conservative Treehouse, here is his summation of Durham...and he even spoke to Durham.

But to save you the reading, they are pretty much going to sweep it under the rug, like everyone predicted. It's the usual DC move. I won't rat you out if you don't rat me out.

My biggest complaint following this story from the beginning was to see how corrupt and inept our government has become.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/20 ... ore-210352

Called it back on March of 2021. Durham just swept it under the rug.

[BDKJMU]

Proves what we all know- the FBI is crooked, and needs a major house cleaning.

Desantis agrees.

[kalm]

Proves what we all know- the FBI is crooked, and needs a major house cleaning.

Desantis agrees.

I don’t like facts so let’s shoot the fact finders.

[kalm]

For those thinking the Durham investigation was still a win for Trump. Informative thread here…

[BDKJMU]

Desantis agrees.

I don’t like facts so let’s shoot the fact finders.

The fact finder is Durham, and I agree with his facts.

You’re disagreeing with what the Durham reported laid out- major issues within the FBI

[kalm]

I don’t like facts so let’s shoot the fact finders.

The fact finder is Durham, and I agree with his facts.

You’re disagreeing with what the Durham reported laid out- major issues within the FBI

Durham laid down his opinions and has produced 2 indictments and zero convictions. Wanna compare that success rate to the Mueller investigation?

[BDKJMU]

The fact finder is Durham, and I agree with his facts.

You’re disagreeing with what the Durham reported laid out- major issues within the FBI

Durham laid down his opinions and has produced 2 indictments and zero convictions. Wanna compare that success rate to the Mueller investigation?

Indictments don’t matter, all that does is convictions. All Mueller did as far as convictions, with FAR more resources than Durham had, more resources than any special counsel in the history of the US, at a cost if tens of millions, was:
-get several (Flynn, Gates, Papodapolus, Stone) for lying to Congress and/or the FBI (so what).
-Cohen for hush payments to Stormy Daniels (so what)
-Manafort (for tax evasion/bank fraud).

The main premise of the investigation, Trump/Russia collusion, was shown to be a hoax.

[UNI88]

Proves what we all know- the FBI is crooked, and needs a major house cleaning.

Can we include Trump and Durham in the crookedness as well?

Any rational thinker knows that trump is as crooked as they come. It bothers me that people continue to support and vote for him but you can't fix stupid.

It troubles me more that the FBI used unethical and possibly illegal methods to justify investigating trump/russia collusion. The FBI should be the preeminent law enforcement organization in this country and as such, should be above this sh!t. This has shown that they aren't. The reality is that they've probably been getting away with using unethical methods for decades but the targets in the past were people of color and/or socialists so MAGAt types were fine with it. Now they've turned their sights on the MAGAt false god and gotten them all in a tizzy while the people that used to criticize the FBI for this kind of thing are cheering them on.

[kalm]

Can we include Trump and Durham in the crookedness as well?

Any rational thinker knows that trump is as crooked as they come. It bothers me that people continue to support and vote for him but you can't fix stupid.

It troubles me more that the FBI used unethical and possibly illegal methods to justify investigating trump/russia collusion. The FBI should be the preeminent law enforcement organization in this country and as such, should be above this sh!t. This has shown that they aren't. The reality is that they've probably been getting away with using unethical methods for decades but the targets in the past were people of color and/or socialists so MAGAt types were fine with it. Now they've turned their sights on the MAGAt false god and gotten them all in a tizzy while the people that used to criticize the FBI for this kind of thing are cheering them on.

Agreed. LE (and I’ll throw in here judges as well) are humans. Same frailties, unethical behavior tendencies, dishonesty etc. And yes, they should, through vetting and oversight, be better than the average person but sometimes you wonder.

But despite Durham’s efforts, nothing illegal has been proven. There is a process for that and they failed.

[GannonFan]

Nothing illegal has been proven? Didn't they get that FBI guy for lying on a FISA warrant? And we can't judge these things by how many convictions came out of them. Heck, the housing collapse in 2008 probably involved a slew of actual illegal activities by at least hundreds, if not thousands of people, and all we came away with was sending one financial trader to jail.

As for finding more illegality, I hate to say it, but like BDK said above even the Mueller investigation didn't result in much - they had people lie to the FBI, and the bigger stuff, like with Manafort, was for completely unrelated stuff that happened long before the actual target of the investigation. Not saying those things were minor (i.e. Manafort is a crook) but they didn't find anything then that the investigation was originally searching for.

As for the Durham investigation, this is a big deal. The FBI flat-out ran a bogus investigation on the weakest of evidence, some they made up themselves and some they should have known was from sources they shouldn't have trusted. It doesn't exonerate Trump for being a truly awful person, but even a truly awful person deserves the law to operate correctly and the FBI didn't do that in this case. They acted on politically motivated materials and they didn't properly ensure that they followed the procedures they should. When the topic they were investigating involved the election of the US President, that's a huge mistake. Trump is a terrible person, but just as it's been all along, we can't let that get in the way of an honest evaluation of what the FBI did in this case.

[kalm]

Nothing illegal has been proven? Didn't they get that FBI guy for lying on a FISA warrant? And we can't judge these things by how many convictions came out of them. Heck, the housing collapse in 2008 probably involved a slew of actual illegal activities by at least hundreds, if not thousands of people, and all we came away with was sending one financial trader to jail.

As for finding more illegality, I hate to say it, but like BDK said above even the Mueller investigation didn't result in much - they had people lie to the FBI, and the bigger stuff, like with Manafort, was for completely unrelated stuff that happened long before the actual target of the investigation. Not saying those things were minor (i.e. Manafort is a crook) but they didn't find anything then that the investigation was originally searching for.

As for the Durham investigation, this is a big deal. The FBI flat-out ran a bogus investigation on the weakest of evidence, some they made up themselves and some they should have known was from sources they shouldn't have trusted. It doesn't exonerate Trump for being a truly awful person, but even a truly awful person deserves the law to operate correctly and the FBI didn't do that in this case. They acted on politically motivated materials and they didn't properly ensure that they followed the procedures they should. When the topic they were investigating involved the election of the US President, that's a huge mistake. Trump is a terrible person, but just as it's been all along, we can't let that get in the way of an honest evaluation of what the FBI did in this case.

There are many lawyers and journalists who have read the entire report and addressed many of these things.

Here’s Marcy Wheeler’s initial thread but she has many interesting follow up tweets on specific questions. And she’s good at providing receipts.

[GannonFan]

Nothing illegal has been proven? Didn't they get that FBI guy for lying on a FISA warrant? And we can't judge these things by how many convictions came out of them. Heck, the housing collapse in 2008 probably involved a slew of actual illegal activities by at least hundreds, if not thousands of people, and all we came away with was sending one financial trader to jail.

As for finding more illegality, I hate to say it, but like BDK said above even the Mueller investigation didn't result in much - they had people lie to the FBI, and the bigger stuff, like with Manafort, was for completely unrelated stuff that happened long before the actual target of the investigation. Not saying those things were minor (i.e. Manafort is a crook) but they didn't find anything then that the investigation was originally searching for.

As for the Durham investigation, this is a big deal. The FBI flat-out ran a bogus investigation on the weakest of evidence, some they made up themselves and some they should have known was from sources they shouldn't have trusted. It doesn't exonerate Trump for being a truly awful person, but even a truly awful person deserves the law to operate correctly and the FBI didn't do that in this case. They acted on politically motivated materials and they didn't properly ensure that they followed the procedures they should. When the topic they were investigating involved the election of the US President, that's a huge mistake. Trump is a terrible person, but just as it's been all along, we can't let that get in the way of an honest evaluation of what the FBI did in this case.

There are many lawyers and journalists who have read the entire report and addressed many of these things.

Here’s Marcy Wheeler’s initial thread but she has many interesting follow up tweets on specific questions. And she’s good at providing receipts.

And? Giving me a blogger who hates Durham, while also dancing around the same idea that the FBI screwed up royally, doesn't change the equation very much. I'm impartial to Durham, I didn't know a thing about him before he took over this investigation. But at the end of the day, the FBI took steps and investigated and interfered with an election and a subsequent Presidency, and took steps to cover up the things they shouldn't have done. This blogger isn't disagreeing with that. No one you've linked so far has either. Mueller's report looked more at Trump and his stooges, this report looks at the FBI. Taken together, they paint a pretty pathetic tale of crappy people doing crappy things. And no, none of this clears Skelly and this abomination of a thread.

[kalm]

There are many lawyers and journalists who have read the entire report and addressed many of these things.

Here’s Marcy Wheeler’s initial thread but she has many interesting follow up tweets on specific questions. And she’s good at providing receipts.

And? Giving me a blogger who hates Durham, while also dancing around the same idea that the FBI screwed up royally, doesn't change the equation very much. I'm impartial to Durham, I didn't know a thing about him before he took over this investigation. But at the end of the day, the FBI took steps and investigated and interfered with an election and a subsequent Presidency, and took steps to cover up the things they shouldn't have done. This blogger isn't disagreeing with that. No one you've linked so far has either. Mueller's report looked more at Trump and his stooges, this report looks at the FBI. Taken together, they paint a pretty pathetic tale of crappy people doing crappy things. And no, none of this clears Skelly and this abomination of a thread.

Find other sources more to your liking (there are many out there) if you’d like to drill it down deeper on your own.

I’m guessing none of them will state emphatically (as you just did) that the FBI interfered with an election beyond the scope of what they’re supposed to do. That goes for Mueller as well. In fact (or as a reminder) Mueller found Russian interference. It’s pretty ironic that when it comes to assessments of what Durham found and given his revealed work with Barr that your response is “meh…the real problem is the FBI and both sides do it.”

[UNI88]

And? Giving me a blogger who hates Durham, while also dancing around the same idea that the FBI screwed up royally, doesn't change the equation very much. I'm impartial to Durham, I didn't know a thing about him before he took over this investigation. But at the end of the day, the FBI took steps and investigated and interfered with an election and a subsequent Presidency, and took steps to cover up the things they shouldn't have done. This blogger isn't disagreeing with that. No one you've linked so far has either. Mueller's report looked more at Trump and his stooges, this report looks at the FBI. Taken together, they paint a pretty pathetic tale of crappy people doing crappy things. And no, none of this clears Skelly and this abomination of a thread.

Find other sources more to your liking (there are many out there) if you’d like to drill it down deeper on your own.

I’m guessing none of them will state emphatically (as you just did) that the FBI interfered with an election beyond the scope of what they’re supposed to do. That goes for Mueller as well. In fact (or as a reminder) Mueller found Russian interference. It’s pretty ironic that when it comes to assessments of Durham found and given his revealed work with Barr that your response is “meh…the real problem is the FBI and both sides do it.”

You continue to use a double standard. You dismiss anything that clears trump or is critical of illiberals or the DoJ/FBI because of lack of convictions but don't apply the same standard to reports that are critical of trump or clear illiberals or the DoJ/FBI.

Durham might not have stated "emphatically that the FBI interfered with an election" but he did find maleficence. If that doesn't concern you then you are placing partisan priorities above justice and equal treatment under the law.

Mueller might have found russian interference but he couldn't tie it to the trump campaign no matter how hard he and the FBI tried. That doesn't mean the whole thing was a hoax but it does mean that they also spent a lot of time and money on what was essentially also "bupkis".

Something tells me some of you may owe Skelly an apology soon.

You posted this earlier. Are there convictions coming or just more bupkis heresay that trump is a despicable fascist?

[kalm]

Find other sources more to your liking (there are many out there) if you’d like to drill it down deeper on your own.

I’m guessing none of them will state emphatically (as you just did) that the FBI interfered with an election beyond the scope of what they’re supposed to do. That goes for Mueller as well. In fact (or as a reminder) Mueller found Russian interference. It’s pretty ironic that when it comes to assessments of Durham found and given his revealed work with Barr that your response is “meh…the real problem is the FBI and both sides do it.”

You continue to use a double standard. You dismiss anything that clears trump or is critical of illiberals or the DoJ/FBI because of lack of convictions but don't apply the same standard to reports that are critical of trump or clear illiberals or the DoJ/FBI.

Durham might not have stated "emphatically that the FBI interfered with an election" but he did find maleficence. If that doesn't concern you then you are placing partisan priorities above justice and equal treatment under the law.

Mueller might have found russian interference but he couldn't tie it to the trump campaign no matter how hard he and the FBI tried. That doesn't mean the whole thing was a hoax but it does mean that they also spent a lot of time and money on what was essentially also "bupkis".

Something tells me some of you may owe Skelly an apology soon.

You posted this earlier. Are there convictions coming or just more bupkis heresay that trump is a despicable fascist?

Well for starters, Mueller is a Republican (so I must have double standards for double standards based on partisan allegiance or something?) and since the cost has been mentioned a few times, forfeited assets have pretty much paid for it. It also took about half the time the Durham took.

But…they’re clearly the same. And neither should be believed? Call it a draw?

[SeattleGriz]

You continue to use a double standard. You dismiss anything that clears trump or is critical of illiberals or the DoJ/FBI because of lack of convictions but don't apply the same standard to reports that are critical of trump or clear illiberals or the DoJ/FBI.

Durham might not have stated "emphatically that the FBI interfered with an election" but he did find maleficence. If that doesn't concern you then you are placing partisan priorities above justice and equal treatment under the law.

Mueller might have found russian interference but he couldn't tie it to the trump campaign no matter how hard he and the FBI tried. That doesn't mean the whole thing was a hoax but it does mean that they also spent a lot of time and money on what was essentially also "bupkis".



You posted this earlier. Are there convictions coming or just more bupkis heresay that trump is a despicable fascist?

Well for starters, Mueller is a Republican (so I must have double standards for double standards based on partisan allegiance or something?) and since the cost has been mentioned a few times, forfeited assets have pretty much paid for it. It also took about half the time the Durham took.

But…they’re clearly the same. And neither should be believed? Call it a draw?

Comparing the staffs of Durham vs Mueller is not comparing the same things.

How about nothing was going to happen to anyone of value to the establishment. Barr was the Bondo and Durham was the spray paint.

[SeattleGriz]

Nothing illegal has been proven? Didn't they get that FBI guy for lying on a FISA warrant? And we can't judge these things by how many convictions came out of them. Heck, the housing collapse in 2008 probably involved a slew of actual illegal activities by at least hundreds, if not thousands of people, and all we came away with was sending one financial trader to jail.

As for finding more illegality, I hate to say it, but like BDK said above even the Mueller investigation didn't result in much - they had people lie to the FBI, and the bigger stuff, like with Manafort, was for completely unrelated stuff that happened long before the actual target of the investigation. Not saying those things were minor (i.e. Manafort is a crook) but they didn't find anything then that the investigation was originally searching for.

As for the Durham investigation, this is a big deal. The FBI flat-out ran a bogus investigation on the weakest of evidence, some they made up themselves and some they should have known was from sources they shouldn't have trusted. It doesn't exonerate Trump for being a truly awful person, but even a truly awful person deserves the law to operate correctly and the FBI didn't do that in this case. They acted on politically motivated materials and they didn't properly ensure that they followed the procedures they should. When the topic they were investigating involved the election of the US President, that's a huge mistake. Trump is a terrible person, but just as it's been all along, we can't let that get in the way of an honest evaluation of what the FBI did in this case.

Yes they did. Do you know the specifics? The FISA court has a lead judge that oversees the court and approves FISAs. Well, the current Judge (Boasberg) was informed by the previous judge that the surveillance system was being abused by FBI and contractors, and then he also found out it was being abused under his term. You think that would upset him.

Well, the same judge over the FISA court, got the FBI guy (Clinesmith) before him when it was revealed he lied on the FISA application. You know what his punishment was? Probation. He was an FBI lawyer who lied on one of our most important surveillance tools an got a slap on the wrist.

They don't care.

[SeattleGriz]

Durham laid down his opinions and has produced 2 indictments and zero convictions. Wanna compare that success rate to the Mueller investigation?

Indictments don’t matter, all that does is convictions. All Mueller did as far as convictions, with FAR more resources than Durham had, more resources than any special counsel in the history of the US, at a cost if tens of millions, was:
-get several (Flynn, Gates, Papodapolus, Stone) for lying to Congress and/or the FBI (so what).
-Cohen for hush payments to Stormy Daniels (so what)
-Manafort (for tax evasion/bank fraud).

The main premise of the investigation, Trump/Russia collusion, was shown to be a hoax.

Mostly process crimes.

In regards to Manafort, he essentially got double jeopardied. The FBI already looked into his cash when he was dealing with the Oligarch years before, and they weren't interested...until Mueller needed a bad guy.

Notice how Tony Podesta, brother of Hillary campaign manager, got to close up shop and file his FARA paperwork even though he was working with Manafort? Selective prosecution.

On a segue, if you are going to bust Manafort for FARA violations, you better go after Hunter Biden as well.

[BDKJMU]

Indictments don’t matter, all that does is convictions. All Mueller did as far as convictions, with FAR more resources than Durham had, more resources than any special counsel in the history of the US, at a cost if tens of millions, was:
-get several (Flynn, Gates, Papodapolus, Stone) for lying to Congress and/or the FBI (so what).
-Cohen for hush payments to Stormy Daniels (so what)
-Manafort (for tax evasion/bank fraud).

The main premise of the investigation, Trump/Russia collusion, was shown to be a hoax.

Mostly process crimes.

In regards to Manafort, he essentially got double jeopardied. The FBI already looked into his cash when he was dealing with the Oligarch years before, and they weren't interested...until Mueller needed a bad guy.

Notice how Tony Podesta, brother of Hillary campaign manager, got to close up shop and file his FARA paperwork even though he was working with Manafort? Selective prosecution.

On a segue, if you are going to bust Manafort for FARA violations, you better go after Hunter Biden as well.

Won’t happen because the current DOJ is rotten to the core..

[SeattleGriz]

If there was no merit to the Trump - Russia collusion, what were Mueller and Weissman doing for two years?

Mueller pulled the government car out of the ditch, Barr applied the bondo and Durham spray painted the car! All better now.

Durham writes a 316-page report, meticulously detailing the false construct of the Trump-Russia narrative. Yet for some reason, the Mueller/Weissmann investigation, an entire special counsel investigation that was predicated and justified by that false Trump-Russia narrative, never found the same evidence?