Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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Grizalltheway wrote:Hey Cid-please update your account to enable 3rd party hosting. Thanks.
Huh?
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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CID1990 wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:Hey Cid-please update your account to enable 3rd party hosting. Thanks.
Huh?
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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kalm wrote:
Ibanez wrote: Democrats: Obamacare is failing. Yes, it's a great law that's done great things and saved many people. As wonderful and Star-Spangled as it is, it's failing. SO,we're scrapping it for Single Payer. Trust us, this will work. Republicans want death panels. :kisswink:
Obamacare isn't failing. It's also not doing much to fix the drain on the economy, control pricing and it's almost seems like it's decreased efficiency if that's possible.

But a number of people were truly saved by it. I know a couple personally who would have gone bankrupt. It's nice if you have "coin to pay cash for medical needs" especially when you're not healthy. I'm glad I didn't have to with my youngest's kidney problems, assorted treatments, and surgeries that ran over $40,000 when he was an infant.

Not everyone can pay 100's of 1000's in cash.
:suspicious:
According to recent data released by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), in 2018, 1,332 counties in the United States will have only one health insurer operating on the Obamacare exchanges and 49 will have none.

The data comes from the Health Insurance Exchanges Issuer County Map, which shows projected issuer participation on the Health Insurance Exchanges in 2018 based on the issuer public announcements made prior to late July of 2017.

"The map currently shows that nationwide 49 counties are projected to have no issuers, meaning that Americans in these counties could be without coverage on the Exchanges in 2018," a press release for the agency states. "It's also projected that 1,332 counties—over 40 percent of counties nationwide—could only have one issuer in 2018."

The data also show that at least 27,660 Americans currently enrolled for health coverage on the Exchanges live in the counties projected to be without any coverage in 2018 – but, because of the Obamacare individual mandate, those who live in areas with no insurers offering health coverage will still be forced to buy coverage.

A CMS press release predicts that that because of lack of options in the healthcare market, more than 2.3 million Obamacare participants may not be able to receive the coverage they need.

The data also reveal that. between 2016 and 2017, average premiums have risen by 21.6 percent. In addition, carrier participation in the Health Insurance Exchange has declined by 31.2 percent since peak participation in 2015.

“We continue to see a decline in issuer participation in the Health Insurance Exchanges leaving consumers with fewer and fewer insurance options,” Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services Administrator Seema Verma said in a press release. “I am deeply concerned about the crisis situation facing the individual market in many states across the nation.”
http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/annabel-sco ... acare-2018
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by JohnStOnge »

I'm against the ACA concept. I'm against the idea that health care is a right.

However, when we talk about the idea that the ACA is failing we have to realize that the Republicans being in control in general and the Trump Administration in particular are factors in that. Those realities have impacts on how Insurance Companies view the risks of participating. Trump in particular is affirmatively attacking confidence.

Also, the Republicans being in control means it's less likely that Congress and the President will try to adjust the existing system in an effort to solve the problems associated with it. That might be a good thing. But it is nevertheless true that the Party in power wants the system to fail and if the Party in power wants the system to fail that increases the odds that it will.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by JohnStOnge »

Check out the RCP average over time below. Notice how an upsurge in support for the ACA coincides with electoral results indicating a strong possibility that it would be repealed?

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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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JohnStOnge wrote:I'm against the ACA concept. I'm against the idea that health care is a right.

However, when we talk about the idea that the ACA is failing we have to realize that the Republicans being in control in general and the Trump Administration in particular are factors in that. Those realities have impacts on how Insurance Companies view the risks of participating. Trump in particular is affirmatively attacking confidence.

Also, the Republicans being in control means it's less likely that Congress and the President will try to adjust the existing system in an effort to solve the problems associated with it. That might be a good thing. But it is nevertheless true that the Party in power wants the system to fail and if the Party in power wants the system to fail that increases the odds that it will.
Huh? So in your world health insurance companies started bailing from exchanges just as soon as Trump was voted in? :suspicious:

BTW I like Trump using the nuclear option on Obamacare...the threat to stop the (illegal) subsidies (bribes) to the health insurance companies to "convince" them to remain in the game. If there is one last card to play by Trump, that is it since no doubt the establishment on both sides of the aisle are deep in the pockets of big pharma/healthcare.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Ivytalk »

JohnStOnge wrote:Check out the RCP average over time below. Notice how an upsurge in support for the ACA coincides with electoral results indicating a strong possibility that it would be repealed?

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And this is a surprise, precisely how? Trying to take an entitlement away from the American sheeple is like trying to take candy from a baby. :protesst:

In the meantime, the pols will keep kicking Medicare, Medicaid, and Soc Sec reform down the road until the system collapses. Drain the swamp, indeed. :coffee:
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:Check out the RCP average over time below. Notice how an upsurge in support for the ACA coincides with electoral results indicating a strong possibility that it would be repealed?

Image
And this is a surprise, precisely how? Trying to take an entitlement away from the American sheeple is like trying to take candy from a baby. :protesst:

In the meantime, the pols will keep kicking Medicare, Medicaid, and Soc Sec reform down the road until the system collapses. Drain the swamp, indeed. :coffee:
It's like taking a tax break away from the Koch brothers or taking subsidies away from big Ag and oil. We all feel entitled and yes it might all come crashing down.

When do you think it will happen?
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: And this is a surprise, precisely how? Trying to take an entitlement away from the American sheeple is like trying to take candy from a baby. :protesst:

In the meantime, the pols will keep kicking Medicare, Medicaid, and Soc Sec reform down the road until the system collapses. Drain the swamp, indeed. :coffee:
It's like taking a tax break away from the Koch brothers or taking subsidies away from big Ag and oil. We all feel entitled and yes it might all come crashing down.

When do you think it will happen?
Depends on which prediction you read. Different programs will go broke at different times. I've seen Medicare 2028, Soc Sec trust fund 2035. Who really knows? Benefits will be cut before they'd let the system totally collapse.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by JohnStOnge »

SDHornet wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:I'm against the ACA concept. I'm against the idea that health care is a right.

However, when we talk about the idea that the ACA is failing we have to realize that the Republicans being in control in general and the Trump Administration in particular are factors in that. Those realities have impacts on how Insurance Companies view the risks of participating. Trump in particular is affirmatively attacking confidence.

Also, the Republicans being in control means it's less likely that Congress and the President will try to adjust the existing system in an effort to solve the problems associated with it. That might be a good thing. But it is nevertheless true that the Party in power wants the system to fail and if the Party in power wants the system to fail that increases the odds that it will.
Huh? So in your world health insurance companies started bailing from exchanges just as soon as Trump was voted in? :suspicious:

BTW I like Trump using the nuclear option on Obamacare...the threat to stop the (illegal) subsidies (bribes) to the health insurance companies to "convince" them to remain in the game. If there is one last card to play by Trump, that is it since no doubt the establishment on both sides of the aisle are deep in the pockets of big pharma/healthcare.
I don't think the subsidies are illegal as the law stands. Maybe Ivy can comment on that.

The point is that we have people in power saying the ACA is failing while they're doing everything they can to make sure it fails. They're not making a good faith effort to make it work and in fact are trying to make sure it doesn't. Again: I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. But we have to recognize that that's what's happening.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by SDHornet »

JohnStOnge wrote:
SDHornet wrote: Huh? So in your world health insurance companies started bailing from exchanges just as soon as Trump was voted in? :suspicious:

BTW I like Trump using the nuclear option on Obamacare...the threat to stop the (illegal) subsidies (bribes) to the health insurance companies to "convince" them to remain in the game. If there is one last card to play by Trump, that is it since no doubt the establishment on both sides of the aisle are deep in the pockets of big pharma/healthcare.
I don't think the subsidies are illegal as the law stands. Maybe Ivy can comment on that.

The point is that we have people in power saying the ACA is failing while they're doing everything they can to make sure it fails. They're not making a good faith effort to make it work and in fact are trying to make sure it doesn't. Again: I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. But we have to recognize that that's what's happening.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Looks like another one is going to bite the dust. :rofl:

They have a week left to pass it with 50 votes.

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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by GannonFan »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Looks like another one is going to bite the dust. :rofl:

They have a week left to pass it with 50 votes.

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The GOP are fools - they don't have an viable option to replace Obamacare and they don't have the legislative skills to work with the Dems to fix the flaws that will cause Obamacare to collapse. McCain's basically the poster-child for the GOP in Congress right now - won't vote for anything (didn't vote for Obamacare originally) and can't come up with the ideas necessary to make anything better. Why they keep going back to this well when it's clear they haven't come up with anything better since the last time they tried is a mystery. Move on to tax reform or immigration reform and actually get something done.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Chizzang »

No government on Earth has a viable sustainable healthcare system in place... Not one

Key to Note:
a) Sustainable
b) Viable

Each system is slowly going backwards
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by kalm »

Chizzang wrote:No government on Earth has a viable sustainable healthcare system in place... Not one

Key to Note:
a) Sustainable
b) Viable

Each system is slowly going backwards
Blame it on all those greedy humans wanting to live longer, avoid suffering, and shit...
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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GannonFan wrote:Move on to tax reform or immigration reform and actually get something done.
I agree. The only thing of any interest with health care now is if they'll fund all of Obamacare or assist its death spiral. You would've thought they would have got at least 1 of the 3 No's from last time to express support for their new version before trotting it out. But people/sheep keep electing the same fools....
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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GannonFan wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:Looks like another one is going to bite the dust. :rofl:

They have a week left to pass it with 50 votes.

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The GOP are fools - they don't have an viable option to replace Obamacare and they don't have the legislative skills to work with the Dems to fix the flaws that will cause Obamacare to collapse. McCain's basically the poster-child for the GOP in Congress right now - won't vote for anything (didn't vote for Obamacare originally) and can't come up with the ideas necessary to make anything better. Why they keep going back to this well when it's clear they haven't come up with anything better since the last time they tried is a mystery. Move on to tax reform or immigration reform and actually get something done.
:nod:

This Graham-Cassidy deal was just Obamacare light anyways. It does nothing to overhaul the system and keep if from collapse or do anything to vastly improve it. The whole Obamacare repeal effort was comical. conks proved to have zero solutions to this problem. :lol:
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by CAA Flagship »

SDHornet wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
The GOP are fools - they don't have an viable option to replace Obamacare and they don't have the legislative skills to work with the Dems to fix the flaws that will cause Obamacare to collapse. McCain's basically the poster-child for the GOP in Congress right now - won't vote for anything (didn't vote for Obamacare originally) and can't come up with the ideas necessary to make anything better. Why they keep going back to this well when it's clear they haven't come up with anything better since the last time they tried is a mystery. Move on to tax reform or immigration reform and actually get something done.
:nod:

This Graham-Cassidy deal was just Obamacare light anyways. It does nothing to overhaul the system and keep if from collapse or do anything to vastly improve it. The whole Obamacare repeal effort was comical. conks proved to have zero solutions to this problem. :lol:
I think you are reading this all wrong. The problem is that a few R Senators want to roll Obamacare back to zero or near zero. The rest are willing to compromise (i.e. vote for each of the proposed bills that were brought forward). But there isn't enough of them to pass it. The Dems want single payer. That would certainly thrust the majority of Americans into an inferior health system in order to help a minority of Americans.
Blame the Republican holdouts, don't blame all of them. It's like fielding a football team with 10 players.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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CAA Flagship wrote:
SDHornet wrote: :nod:

This Graham-Cassidy deal was just Obamacare light anyways. It does nothing to overhaul the system and keep if from collapse or do anything to vastly improve it. The whole Obamacare repeal effort was comical. conks proved to have zero solutions to this problem. :lol:
I think you are reading this all wrong. The problem is that a few R Senators want to roll Obamacare back to zero or near zero. The rest are willing to compromise (i.e. vote for each of the proposed bills that were brought forward). But there isn't enough of them to pass it. The Dems want single payer. That would certainly thrust the majority of Americans into an inferior health system in order to help a minority of Americans.
Blame the Republican holdouts, don't blame all of them. It's like fielding a football team with 10 players.
Not reading it wrong at all. conks and Trump ran on a repeal and replace. conks balked at a full repeal even though they control all 3 branches. Then they went to a compromise type of deal (Obamacare-lite) and still can't get it passed.

Agree that the donk endgame is single payer, and thanks to conk incompetence we'll get it the next time donks take control (since Obamacare will have completely imploded by then).

Plenty of blame to go around, and there will be more blame coming. conks get blamed for screaming repeal and replace for 7 years and now doing nothing when in control. A handful of conks will get additional blame for not going along with these Obamacare-lite deals. donks will get the blame for their healthcare system imploding since no fixes were made (donks still own Obamacare no matter how you want to spin it). We'll have single payer within the next 20 years. Bank it.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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SDHornet wrote:donks will get the blame for their healthcare system imploding since no fixes were made (donks still own Obamacare no matter how you want to spin it). We'll have single payer within the next 20 years. Bank it.
Doesn't matter what happens in the short term. Whether it happens in my lifetime or not (I'm almost 60) the United States will one day have health care as a government funded entitlement. It'll be like public schools or public libraries.

The reason is that "liberals" or "progressives" or whatever we want to call them already won the philosophical battle. The majority of Americans think health care is a "right" and that will eventually translate into a system by which government provides health care.

That will happen whether the Republican Party succeeds in repealing and replacing the Affordable Care Act in the near future or not. The Democrats will inevitably come to dominate as demographics continue to evolve and will at some point undo anything the Republicans succeed in doing.

As the cliche goes: It's not a question of if...
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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BTW I continue to experience increasing cynicism about the Republican Party. They embraced an atrocity as their Presidential candidate. One of their major voting blocks, White Evangelical Christians, decided to support someone who is practically Satan at a greater percentage than they supported any Republican candidate in the past. Now they are engaged in repeated hypocrisy with respect to the health care law thing.

All that stuff about how the Democrats abused the reconciliation process to pass the Affordable Care Act. All that stuff about the Democrats ramming it through. And now the Republicans are abusing the reconciliation process and being even worse about trying to ram what they want through than the Democrats were.

The Republicans railed against the Democrats ramming it through as the Democrats went through a process that took 8 months. Now the Republicans are trying to ram something through in a couple of weeks.

This time the Republicans don't even want to wait for a CBO score. They want to ram it through beforehand so they can abuse the reconciliation process before the deadline for being able to do that this year passes.

I heard Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana today say in a CNN interview that the CBO can't say what the effects will be anyway because they don't know what States will do. A few minutes later he said HE believes it will lower costs. Well, which is it? Is it impossible to tell what will happen or can you derive a basis for saying it will lower costs?

It's just awful. The Party I considered the lesser of two evils for decades has now shown itself to be off the charts in terms of hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty. This is just the latest manifestation of it.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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JohnStOnge wrote:
SDHornet wrote:donks will get the blame for their healthcare system imploding since no fixes were made (donks still own Obamacare no matter how you want to spin it). We'll have single payer within the next 20 years. Bank it.
Doesn't matter what happens in the short term. Whether it happens in my lifetime or not (I'm almost 60) the United States will one day have health care as a government funded entitlement. It'll be like public schools or public libraries.

The reason is that "liberals" or "progressives" or whatever we want to call them already won the philosophical battle. The majority of Americans think health care is a "right" and that will eventually translate into a system by which government provides health care.

That will happen whether the Republican Party succeeds in repealing and replacing the Affordable Care Act in the near future or not. The Democrats will inevitably come to dominate as demographics continue to evolve and will at some point undo anything the Republicans succeed in doing.

As the cliche goes: It's not a question of if...
conks don't have a spine, that is why they lost the healthcare battle. :coffee:
:lol:
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by GannonFan »

SDHornet wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Doesn't matter what happens in the short term. Whether it happens in my lifetime or not (I'm almost 60) the United States will one day have health care as a government funded entitlement. It'll be like public schools or public libraries.

The reason is that "liberals" or "progressives" or whatever we want to call them already won the philosophical battle. The majority of Americans think health care is a "right" and that will eventually translate into a system by which government provides health care.

That will happen whether the Republican Party succeeds in repealing and replacing the Affordable Care Act in the near future or not. The Democrats will inevitably come to dominate as demographics continue to evolve and will at some point undo anything the Republicans succeed in doing.

As the cliche goes: It's not a question of if...
conks don't have a spine, that is why they lost the healthcare battle. :coffee:
:lol:
It has nothing to do with spine, it has everything to do with not having a vision. We'll get the single payer healthcare system (with the attached private system that people with means will access because the single payer system will be a gradually diminishing entity in terms of quality) because the GOP doesn't have another vision. All of these failed attempts to roll back Obamacare prove that - they have nothing in mind to replace it with.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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GannonFan wrote:
SDHornet wrote: conks don't have a spine, that is why they lost the healthcare battle. :coffee:
:lol:
It has nothing to do with spine, it has everything to do with not having a vision. We'll get the single payer healthcare system (with the attached private system that people with means will access because the single payer system will be a gradually diminishing entity in terms of quality) because the GOP doesn't have another vision. All of these failed attempts to roll back Obamacare prove that - they have nothing in mind to replace it with.
Agree with them having no vision...but if they had a spine they could have repealed then replaced...like they claimed they would. Hence no spine. :coffee:
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote:
SDHornet wrote: conks don't have a spine, that is why they lost the healthcare battle. :coffee:
:lol:
It has nothing to do with spine, it has everything to do with not having a vision. We'll get the single payer healthcare system (with the attached private system that people with means will access because the single payer system will be a gradually diminishing entity in terms of quality) because the GOP doesn't have another vision. All of these failed attempts to roll back Obamacare prove that - they have nothing in mind to replace it with.
But what about the free market? And portability? And tort reform?
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