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The sole ostensible rationale for this ban — it is necessary to keep out Muslim extremists — collapses upon the most minimal scrutiny. The countries that have produced and supported the greatest number of anti-U.S. terrorists — Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, UAE — are excluded from the ban list because the tyrannical regimes that run those countries are close U.S. allies. Conversely, the countries that are included — Syria, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Iran, Sudan, and Yemen — have produced virtually no such terrorists; as the Cato Institute documented on Friday night: “Foreigners from those seven nations have killed zero Americans in terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1975 and the end of 2015.” Indeed, as of a 2015 study by the New America research center, deaths caused by terrorism from right-wing nationalists since 9/11 have significantly exceeded those from Muslim extremists.

Trump’s pledge last night to a Christian broadcasting network to prioritize Christian refugees over all others is just profane: The very idea of determining who merits refuge on the basis of religious belief is bigotry in its purest sense. Beyond the morality, it is almost also certainly unconstitutional in a country predicated on the “free exercise of religion.” In the New York Times this morning, Cato analyst David Bier also convincingly argues that the policy is illegal on statutory grounds as well.

Making this worse still is the central role the U.S. government played in the horrors from which many of these now-banned people are fleeing. The suggestion that Trump protected the countries with which he does business is preposterous. The reality is that his highly selective list reflects longstanding U.S. policy: Indeed, Obama restricted visa rights for these same seven countries, and the regimes in Riyadh and Cairo have received special U.S. protection for decades, long before Trump.

Beyond U.S. support for the world’s worst regimes, what primarily shapes Trump’s list is U.S. aggression: Five of the seven predominantly Muslim countries on Trump’s list were ones bombed by Obama, while the other two (Iran and Sudan) were punished with heavy sanctions. Thus, Trump is banning immigrants from the very countries that the U.S. government — under both Republicans and Democrats — has played a key role in destabilizing and destroying, as Democratic Sen. Chris Murphy, with surprising candor, noted this week:


It is critical to recognize and fight against the unique elements of Trump’s extremism, but also to acknowledge that a substantial portion of it has roots in political and cultural developments that long precede him. Immigration horror stories — including families being torn apart — are nothing new. As ABC News noted last August, “The Obama administration has deported more people than any other president’s administration in history. In fact, they have deported more than the sum of all the presidents of the 20th century.”

And the reason Trump is able so easily to tap into a groundswell of anti-Muslim fears and bigotry is because they have been cultivated for 16 years as the central fuel driving the war on terror. There are factions on both the center-left and right that are primarily devoted to demonizing Muslims and Islam. A government can get away with bombing, invading, and droning the same group of people for more than 15 years only by constantly demonizing and dehumanizing that group and maintaining high fear levels, which is exactly what the U.S. has done under two successive administrations. Both the Bush and Obama administrations ushered in all-new and quite extreme civil liberties erosions aimed primarily if not exclusively at Muslims.

Vidav wrote:I was attacked by seven different muslims just yesterday.

Vidav wrote:I was attacked by seven different muslims just yesterday.

Cluck U wrote:

Always fighting the last war.

Instead of looking back and seeing if there were any problems in the USA with refugees from those 7 countries, we should be asking if there been any problems in any country where refugees came from those 7 countries.

And the answer to that question is...wait for it...yes, there have been problems from refugees from those countries.

We should also be asking if our security forces have thwarted any potential problems from peeps from those countries.

As to the, "candor" of Democratic Murphy...there are two problems with his candor. 1) Obama redefined, "deported," just like he redefined, "civilian casualty" in his drone war. Murphy knows this...but he used the tweaked stats anyway. Not very candid. 2) The number of immigrants attempting to cross in to the US has increased substantially, (23% alone, according to the New York Times, in 2016 across the Mexican border) under Obama...due to his encouragement and the lack of prosecution by his administrators. So yeah, if Obama did send some more back, it was only a fraction of the number that tried to come in due to Obama's policies.

Lastly, to the silly idea that Muslins are unfairly targeted...they DESERVE to be targeted. There is no other religion out there that has a standing policy to destroy Western lifestyle.

Oh, and let's not ignore something the writer already unwittingly admitted. Muslins, and Muslin countries, countires are not being discriminated against. There are only 7 countries, all with serious problems, that are being targeted. MANY Muslin countries are not on the list.

Trump wants to make it easier for minority religions in their countries to enter this country if they are persecuted. One would think that Libs would want Trump to help minorities.

The writer should be taken out back and introduced to some Muslin extremists.

kalm wrote:

Cluck U wrote:

Always fighting the last war.

Instead of looking back and seeing if there were any problems in the USA with refugees from those 7 countries, we should be asking if there been any problems in any country where refugees came from those 7 countries.

And the answer to that question is...wait for it...yes, there have been problems from refugees from those countries.

We should also be asking if our security forces have thwarted any potential problems from peeps from those countries.

As to the, "candor" of Democratic Murphy...there are two problems with his candor. 1) Obama redefined, "deported," just like he redefined, "civilian casualty" in his drone war. Murphy knows this...but he used the tweaked stats anyway. Not very candid. 2) The number of immigrants attempting to cross in to the US has increased substantially, (23% alone, according to the New York Times, in 2016 across the Mexican border) under Obama...due to his encouragement and the lack of prosecution by his administrators. So yeah, if Obama did send some more back, it was only a fraction of the number that tried to come in due to Obama's policies.

Lastly, to the silly idea that Muslins are unfairly targeted...they DESERVE to be targeted. There is no other religion out there that has a standing policy to destroy Western lifestyle.

Oh, and let's not ignore something the writer already unwittingly admitted. Muslins, and Muslin countries, countires are not being discriminated against. There are only 7 countries, all with serious problems, that are being targeted. MANY Muslin countries are not on the list.

Trump wants to make it easier for minority religions in their countries to enter this country if they are persecuted. One would think that Libs would want Trump to help minorities.

The writer should be taken out back and introduced to some Muslin extremists.

I was waiting for this post and you rarely disappoint!

I'll reply more tomorrow but in the mean time...1) if you're going to decree a ban on refugees and travel, don't be a pussy and pick and choose select Muslim countries. Go ahead and ban travel from all.

2). If you're unwilling to kill them all, then at some point you have to quit pretending to be a badass and actually work towards empowering the good actors...

Wait...isn't that we've been doing?

Cluck U wrote:

kalm wrote:
I was waiting for this post and you rarely disappoint!

I'll reply more tomorrow but in the mean time...1) if you're going to decree a ban on refugees and travel, don't be a pussy and pick and choose select Muslim countries. Go ahead and ban travel from all.

2). If you're unwilling to kill them all, then at some point you have to quit pretending to be a badass and actually work towards empowering the good actors...

Wait...isn't that we've been doing?

1) Why would you ban refugees from everywhere? That doesn't make any sense.

2) Uh, no. It is a shame that you think in only two dimensions.

Pwns wrote:everyone is missing the most important point here - that Trump is an impulsive idiot with an apparent ready-fire-aim style of leadership..

Cluck U wrote:

kalm wrote:
I was waiting for this post and you rarely disappoint!

I'll reply more tomorrow but in the mean time...1) if you're going to decree a ban on refugees and travel, don't be a pussy and pick and choose select Muslim countries. Go ahead and ban travel from all.

2). If you're unwilling to kill them all, then at some point you have to quit pretending to be a badass and actually work towards empowering the good actors...

Wait...isn't that we've been doing?

1) Why would you ban refugees from everywhere? That doesn't make any sense.

2) Uh, no. It is a shame that you think in only two dimensions.

kalm wrote: That notion isn't just tied to the 7 countries where Trump happens to not have current or pending business deals.

kalm wrote:

Cluck U wrote:

Always fighting the last war.

Instead of looking back and seeing if there were any problems in the USA with refugees from those 7 countries, we should be asking if there been any problems in any country where refugees came from those 7 countries.

And the answer to that question is...wait for it...yes, there have been problems from refugees from those countries.

We should also be asking if our security forces have thwarted any potential problems from peeps from those countries.

As to the, "candor" of Democratic Murphy...there are two problems with his candor. 1) Obama redefined, "deported," just like he redefined, "civilian casualty" in his drone war. Murphy knows this...but he used the tweaked stats anyway. Not very candid. 2) The number of immigrants attempting to cross in to the US has increased substantially, (23% alone, according to the New York Times, in 2016 across the Mexican border) under Obama...due to his encouragement and the lack of prosecution by his administrators. So yeah, if Obama did send some more back, it was only a fraction of the number that tried to come in due to Obama's policies.

Lastly, to the silly idea that Muslins are unfairly targeted...they DESERVE to be targeted. There is no other religion out there that has a standing policy to destroy Western lifestyle.

Oh, and let's not ignore something the writer already unwittingly admitted. Muslins, and Muslin countries, countires are not being discriminated against. There are only 7 countries, all with serious problems, that are being targeted. MANY Muslin countries are not on the list.

Trump wants to make it easier for minority religions in their countries to enter this country if they are persecuted. One would think that Libs would want Trump to help minorities.

The writer should be taken out back and introduced to some Muslin extremists.

I was waiting for this post and you rarely disappoint!

I'll reply more tomorrow but in the mean time...1) if you're going to decree a ban on refugees and travel, don't be a pussy and pick and choose select Muslim countries. Go ahead and ban travel from all.

2). If you're unwilling to kill them all, then at some point you have to quit pretending to be a badass and actually work towards empowering the good actors...

Wait...isn't that we've been doing?

Cluck U wrote:

kalm wrote: That notion isn't just tied to the 7 countries where Trump happens to not have current or pending business deals.

Parrot.

As far as going first with ALL Muslin countries...that would be discriminatory.

Baby steps.

Man, do I have to teach you Left Coast people everything?

CID1990 wrote:

kalm wrote:
I was waiting for this post and you rarely disappoint!

I'll reply more tomorrow but in the mean time...1) if you're going to decree a ban on refugees and travel, don't be a pussy and pick and choose select Muslim countries. Go ahead and ban travel from all.

2). If you're unwilling to kill them all, then at some point you have to quit pretending to be a badass and actually work towards empowering the good actors...

Wait...isn't that we've been doing?

Take it from a former "democracy is what they need" ideologue who has been there ....

There are no good actors to support. They are all hideously retrogressive in the area of human rights and basic freedoms - with the usual few exceptions who amount to nothing

kalm wrote:

Cluck U wrote:
Parrot.

As far as going first with ALL Muslin countries...that would be discriminatory.

Baby steps.

Man, do I have to teach you Left Coast people everything?

Uh oh...someone is developing a KC Keeler type blind spot over Trump!

Cluck U wrote:

kalm wrote:
Uh oh...someone is developing a KC Keeler type blind spot over Trump!

Somebody (mirror, mirror on the wall...) is developing a blind spot over just about everything.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

Pwns wrote:everyone is missing the most important point here - that Trump is an impulsive idiot with an apparent ready-fire-aim style of leadership..

You think everyone is missing this? OK...

Skjellyfetti wrote:

CAA Flagship wrote:Sift through this. Please point out the inaccuracies.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... t-hysteria