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BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:09 pm 10 month old news. Curious as to how 2020 will look with the China Virus.

2019 US States (lower 48) Americans Are Leaving, Fast (Plus The States They're Moving To) according to United Van Lines.

Inbound moves (removed DC from #6 on list).
*VT highest inbound, but under 250 moves, so not included.
1.ID (67.4%)
2.OR (65.7%
3.AZ (63.2%)
4.SC (61.8%)
5.WA (59.5%) (No state income tax).
6.FL (58.1%) (No state income tax).
7.SD (57.4%) (No state income tax).
8.NC (57.3%)
9.TN (56.1%) (No state income tax).
—NM (56.1%)
11.NV (55.8%) (No state income tax).
12.TX (55.6) (No state income tax).
13.AL (55.5%)
14.DE (55.4%)
15.WY (55.3%) (No state income tax).
16.CO (53.4%)
17.RI (52.9%)
18.NH (52.8%) (No state income tax (on wages)).
19.AR (52.4%)
20.GA (51.2%)
21.WV (51.1%)
22.NE (51.%)
23.ME (50.2%)
24.OK (50%) (No state income tax).

Outbound moves
1.NJ (68.5%)
2.IL (66.5%)
3.NY (63.1%)
4.CT (63.0%)
5.KS (58.5%)
6.OH (57.8%)
7.CA (56.9%)
-.MI (56.9%)
9.ND (55.2%)
10.IA (55.0%)
11.MA (54.8%)
12.LA (54.7%)
13.MT (53.9%)
14.VA (52.9%)
15.WI (52.6%)
16.KY (52.4%)
17.IN (52.1%)
18.MI (52.0%)
19.MN (51.9%)
20.MD (51.6%)
21.UT (51.4%)
22.PA (51.2%)
23.MO (51.1%)

https://www.unitedvanlines.com/moving-t ... om-in-2019
https://moneywise.com/a/ch-b/americans- ... n_d=0.1078

To me the outbound surprises are ND, MT, and UT..
Obviously no state income tax is a draw, as all 9 nonstate income tax are in the inboud states, including 6 of the top 12.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:08 pm

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:09 pm 10 month old news. Curious as to how 2020 will look with the China Virus.

2019 US States (lower 48) Americans Are Leaving, Fast (Plus The States They're Moving To) according to United Van Lines.

Inbound moves (removed DC from #6 on list).
*VT highest inbound, but under 250 moves, so not included.
1.ID (67.4%)
2.OR (65.7%
3.AZ (63.2%)
4.SC (61.8%)
5.WA (59.5%) (No state income tax).
6.FL (58.1%) (No state income tax).
7.SD (57.4%) (No state income tax).
8.NC (57.3%)
9.TN (56.1%) (No state income tax).
—NM (56.1%)
11.NV (55.8%) (No state income tax).
12.TX (55.6) (No state income tax).
13.AL (55.5%)
14.DE (55.4%)
15.WY (55.3%) (No state income tax).
16.CO (53.4%)
17.RI (52.9%)
18.NH (52.8%) (No state income tax (on wages)).
19.AR (52.4%)
20.GA (51.2%)
21.WV (51.1%)
22.NE (51.%)
23.ME (50.2%)
24.OK (50%) (No state income tax).

Outbound moves
1.NJ (68.5%)
2.IL (66.5%)
3.NY (63.1%)
4.CT (63.0%)
5.KS (58.5%)
6.OH (57.8%)
7.CA (56.9%)
-.MI (56.9%)
9.ND (55.2%)
10.IA (55.0%)
11.MA (54.8%)
12.LA (54.7%)
13.MT (53.9%)
14.VA (52.9%)
15.WI (52.6%)
16.KY (52.4%)
17.IN (52.1%)
18.MI (52.0%)
19.MN (51.9%)
20.MD (51.6%)
21.UT (51.4%)
22.PA (51.2%)
23.MO (51.1%)

https://www.unitedvanlines.com/moving-t ... om-in-2019
https://moneywise.com/a/ch-b/americans- ... n_d=0.1078

To me the outbound surprises are ND, MT, and UT..
Obviously no state income tax is a draw, as all 9 nonstate income tax are in the inboud states, including 6 of the top 12.

I have no proof but guessing ND and MT outbound might be due to a slow down of growth in the Bakken oil patch and people that moved there for that are now moving out. Plus have you ever been to ND in the winter? Iowa's bad enough, ND is terrible.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:08 pm
I have no proof but guessing ND and MT outbound might be due to a slow down of growth in the Bakken oil patch and people that moved there for that are now moving out. Plus have you ever been to ND in the winter? Iowa's bad enough, ND is terrible.

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:05 pm

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:08 pm

I have no proof but guessing ND and MT outbound might be due to a slow down of growth in the Bakken oil patch and people that moved there for that are now moving out. Plus have you ever been to ND in the winter? Iowa's bad enough, ND is terrible.

Yeah, 2011 JMU @ NDSU 2nd round playoffs. That was early Dec, and it was still cold as fuck..

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:11 am

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:08 pm
I have no proof but guessing ND and MT outbound might be due to a slow down of growth in the Bakken oil patch and people that moved there for that are now moving out. Plus have you ever been to ND in the winter? Iowa's bad enough, ND is terrible.

Yup. Temporary bump in population due to all the rig workers. Plus technology has changed quite a bit since the start of the boom and the platforms are getting by with fewer workers due to new technology. Plus drilling overall is down.

SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:05 pm

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:11 am

Yup. Temporary bump in population due to all the rig workers. Plus technology has changed quite a bit since the start of the boom and the platforms are getting by with fewer workers due to new technology. Plus drilling overall is down.

I think it would be a driving force for ND, but not Montana. My guess would be the usual. No decent jobs for grads. It's why I had to leave.

On a separate note, we have land on Bakken. Not ideal, so probably never be developed.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:33 pm

SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:05 pm

I think it would be a driving force for ND, but not Montana. My guess would be the usual. No decent jobs for grads. It's why I had to leave.

On a separate note, we have land on Bakken. Not ideal, so probably never be developed.

What area?

There are at least 3 different fields that are in various stages of development. There are also a couple of fields outside of the traditional area that may get developed in the future depending on technology and prices (Oil and CNG).

SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:12 pm

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:33 pm

What area?

There are at least 3 different fields that are in various stages of development. There are also a couple of fields outside of the traditional area that may get developed in the future depending on technology and prices (Oil and CNG).

Outside of Plentywood, MT. 25 miles from ND and 15 from Canada. I used to love to say that I rode my bike to Saskatchewan when I would ride to the border.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:14 am

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:05 pm
Yeah, 2011 JMU @ NDSU 2nd round playoffs. That was early Dec, and it was still cold as fuck..

The high was 43°F that Friday and gameday it warmed up to 30°F. That is practically a heat wave!

SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:05 pm

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:11 am

Yup. Temporary bump in population due to all the rig workers. Plus technology has changed quite a bit since the start of the boom and the platforms are getting by with fewer workers due to new technology. Plus drilling overall is down.

I think it would be a driving force for ND, but not Montana. My guess would be the usual. No decent jobs for grads. It's why I had to leave.

On a separate note, we have land on Bakken. Not ideal, so probably never be developed.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:49 pm

SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:05 pm

I think it would be a driving force for ND, but not Montana. My guess would be the usual. No decent jobs for grads. It's why I had to leave.

On a separate note, we have land on Bakken. Not ideal, so probably never be developed.

I don't know how far the Bakken area impacts MT but I know a guy that lives in Sydney and he said it was nuts for a while.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:55 pm

SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:12 pm

Outside of Plentywood, MT. 25 miles from ND and 15 from Canada. I used to love to say that I rode my bike to Saskatchewan when I would ride to the border.

I have some friends that lived near the border and they would tell stories of checking fences that were on the border and in one particular corner there was a wooden box. Every now and then the neighbor that had land adjoining their piece but up in Canada would leave some Canadian Whiskey in the box and then they would leave a carton of cigarettes in trade (this was back in the early 90's before 9/11, not sure you could do it now).

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:14 pm

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:55 pm


I have some friends that lived near the border and they would tell stories of checking fences that were on the border and in one particular corner there was a wooden box. Every now and then the neighbor that had land adjoining their piece but up in Canada would leave some Canadian Whiskey in the box and then they would leave a carton of cigarettes in trade (this was back in the early 90's before 9/11, not sure you could do it now).

Why not? Is there now a big fence there with border guards?

CID1990 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:04 pm

dbackjon wrote:
Sobeck acknowledged that the ship's Halon fire suppression system -- which could have put out the initial fire -- was not activated because it was also receiving maintenance.

Nothing about this ship’s disposition was unusual for a vessel welded to the pier for maintenance, except for the fire watch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:29 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:14 pm

Why not? Is there now a big fence there with border guards?

Yep. And Trump made the Canadians pay for it.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:33 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:39 pm

As a small L libertarian, it pains me to agree that the greatest opening for a 3rd party is with social conservatism and fiscal irresponsibility.

Maybe Trump and his RINO supporters can form their own fiscally irresponsible party focused ironically enough on scolding people for their moral shortcomings.

Hey, I'm right there with you - I'm part of that lonely socially liberal, fiscally conservative quadrant. It's pretty lonely over here.

As for that party of Trumpers, we already had that group once - the Know-Nothings in the 1840's/1850's. Thankfully they didn't last long but they had their own former President too in Millard Fillmore. Trump is really channeling some compelling history following in those footprints.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:14 pm

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:55 pm



I have some friends that lived near the border and they would tell stories of checking fences that were on the border and in one particular corner there was a wooden box. Every now and then the neighbor that had land adjoining their piece but up in Canada would leave some Canadian Whiskey in the box and then they would leave a carton of cigarettes in trade (this was back in the early 90's before 9/11, not sure you could do it now).

Why not? Is there now a big fence there with border guards?

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:03 pm

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:14 am

The high was 43°F that Friday and gameday it warmed up to 30°F. That is practically a heat wave!

You're right on the temp, but the windchill made it feel colder. I swore I remember it as feeling way colder than that...looking at Wunderground for Fargo Sat, 12/3/11:
2 PM tailgating/walking to stadium for 3 PM kickoff, 30 degrees, with 16 mph winds, windchill of about 19.
7 PM pm leaving stadium 24 degrees, 6 mph wind, wind chill of about 17..

Leaving in the AM the next day was low 20s..Thats more like Jan/Feb weather around here..Yeah I know to the North Dakotans that's mild...

I'm not confusing the 2011 2nd round with the 2016 semis (12/16/16), which I wasn't at, but which I heard was brutal- I see low of 0 degrees, high of 6 degrees. 5 PM local, an hr before kickoff, shows 5 degrees, 29 mph wind, which would be a windchill of about -28. I remember ESPN making a big deal of it with the temperature gauge outside the Fargodome, along with the noise meter inside.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:27 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:33 pm

Hey, I'm right there with you - I'm part of that lonely socially liberal, fiscally conservative quadrant. It's pretty lonely over here.

As for that party of Trumpers, we already had that group once - the Know-Nothings in the 1840's/1850's. Thankfully they didn't last long but they had their own former President too in Millard Fillmore. Trump is really channeling some compelling history following in those footprints.

it's weird. Everyone I know claims they're part of the socially liberal, fiscally conservative crowd....yet it has the fewest voters?

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:27 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:33 pm

Hey, I'm right there with you - I'm part of that lonely socially liberal, fiscally conservative quadrant. It's pretty lonely over here.

As for that party of Trumpers, we already had that group once - the Know-Nothings in the 1840's/1850's. Thankfully they didn't last long but they had their own former President too in Millard Fillmore. Trump is really channeling some compelling history following in those footprints.

it's weird. Everyone I know claims they're part of the socially liberal, fiscally conservative crowd....yet it has the fewest voters?

To go by the post-election commentary, we libertarians are a powerful group holding sway over American politics and policy. Yet Team Blue and Team Red still enthusiastically embrace authoritarianism and scorn our insistence on letting people run their own lives.

Despite growing recognition that libertarians matter, Democrats and Republicans show little sign of extending an olive branch to people who oppose efforts to make government more abusive and intrusive. They know we exist, but they keep us in opposition.

Ibanez wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:30 am
There's a good article on Reason.com about Libertarians struggling to find a home in a major political party.

https://reason.com/2020/11/30/libertari ... cal-party/

To go by the post-election commentary, we libertarians are a powerful group holding sway over American politics and policy. Yet Team Blue and Team Red still enthusiastically embrace authoritarianism and scorn our insistence on letting people run their own lives.

Despite growing recognition that libertarians matter, Democrats and Republicans show little sign of extending an olive branch to people who oppose efforts to make government more abusive and intrusive. They know we exist, but they keep us in opposition.

For all the talk about Donald Trump’s debt, most of his loans are actually in decent shape. They’re pledged against valuable assets, which throw off big profits. But there are exceptions. Chief among them: The president owes an estimated $340 million to Deutsche Bank—all of which is mortgaged against troubled properties. No wonder the German bank is reportedly eager to sever ties with the president.

Wait, so Republican senators care about tweets now?

Texas Sen. John Cornyn is outraged -- OUTRAGED! -- that Office of Management and Budget nominee Neera Tanden said mean things about his fellow GOP senators on Twitter.

"I think, in light of her combative and insulting comments about many members of the Senate, mainly on our side of the aisle, that it creates certainly a problematic path," he said earlier this week about Tanden's Twitter feed.
Which is interesting!
Because Cornyn has not always been, um, so vigilant when it comes to things that are said on Twitter by prominent political figures.
Back in June, when reporters asked Cornyn about a tweet from President Donald Trump suggesting, with zero evidence, that a Buffalo man pushed down by police amid a Black Lives Matter protest was an Antifa plant, Cornyn simply walked away from the podium -- refusing to even deign the question with a response.
Which is very different than his outrage over Tanden's tweets, right?
The difference? Tanden is the OMB nominee of Democratic President-elect Joe Biden. Trump is, well, Trump -- the Republican president and titular head of Cornyn's party.
This is, of course, blatant hypocrisy. If Trump's tweets were something to be dismissed, then why do Tanden's tweets -- which are partisan, yes, but were not flagged by Twitter as being threatening or breaking the platform's rules of conduct -- somehow disqualify her from serving in Biden's administration? (Tanden, just after the November election, began deleting her tweets -- perhaps sensing this was all coming.)
Cornyn is far from alone in exerting this clear partisan double standard.
Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton recently referred to Tanden as a "partisan hack" for her comments and tweets about Republican senators during Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation fight and predicted she would never be confirmed.
But how did Cotton react when Trump told four female freshman Democratic members of Congress to go back to where they came from (three were born in America and the fourth is a naturalized citizen)?
"The president is gonna tweet what he's gonna tweet," Cotton told Axios.

Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:45 am Shocked but not shocking that politicians would act this way.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/03/politics ... index.html

GannonFan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:25 am

Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:45 am Shocked but not shocking that politicians would act this way.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/03/politics ... index.html

In his defense, the Senate doesn't have confirmation powers over a President, but they do over a nominated Budget director. Of course we'd like politicians to be rock solid consistent with what they say to the press and with what they do in their jobs, but these are politicians and it's rare to find any politician who meets that mold.