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kalm wrote:I didn't pay much attention to this when it happened but with the recent assasination of the Honduran activist and some revelations in Hillary's emails last year, it seems to be getting some traction.

From what I understand:

Left leaning president threatens horrific things like the morning after pill, gay rights, indigenous people's rights, protecting the environment, increasing the minimum wage and gets taken out in a military coup that Hillary refuses to acknowledge as a coup and then (along with Lanny Davis who represents the Honduran oligarchy and trans-national firms) does everything she can to prevent the ousted president from coming back and getting re-elected.

Oligarch's get their peeps in power and rights have been trampled ever since.

(CID might have some incite here)

http://www.thenation.com/article/the-cl ... s-leaders/

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/08/exclusi ... democracy/

I mean just look at Berta Caceras...is she not the spitting image of danger or what?

CID1990 wrote:

kalm wrote:I didn't pay much attention to this when it happened but with the recent assasination of the Honduran activist and some revelations in Hillary's emails last year, it seems to be getting some traction.

From what I understand:

Left leaning president threatens horrific things like the morning after pill, gay rights, indigenous people's rights, protecting the environment, increasing the minimum wage and gets taken out in a military coup that Hillary refuses to acknowledge as a coup and then (along with Lanny Davis who represents the Honduran oligarchy and trans-national firms) does everything she can to prevent the ousted president from coming back and getting re-elected.

Oligarch's get their peeps in power and rights have been trampled ever since.

(CID might have some incite here)

http://www.thenation.com/article/the-cl ... s-leaders/

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/08/exclusi ... democracy/

I mean just look at Berta Caceras...is she not the spitting image of danger or what?

I prefer not to incite anything.

kalm wrote:I didn't pay much attention to this when it happened but with the recent assasination of the Honduran activist and some revelations in Hillary's emails last year, it seems to be getting some traction.

From what I understand:

Left leaning president threatens horrific things like the morning after pill, gay rights, indigenous people's rights, protecting the environment, increasing the minimum wage and gets taken out in a military coup that Hillary refuses to acknowledge as a coup and then (along with Lanny Davis who represents the Honduran oligarchy and trans-national firms) does everything she can to prevent the ousted president from coming back and getting re-elected.

Oligarch's get their peeps in power and rights have been trampled ever since.

(CID might have some incite here)

http://www.thenation.com/article/the-cl ... s-leaders/

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/08/exclusi ... democracy/

I mean just look at Berta Caceras...is she not the spitting image of danger or what?

GannonFan wrote:This would be a bigger thing if Obama hadn't gone along with everything that Clinton was doing (or vice versa - Obama wasn't just a bystander in all of this). Dems aren't going to want to tarnish Obama by going after Hillary on this. Of course it was a coup, and of course it was illegal, but as far as anyone knows it wasn't instigated or initiated from outside the country - basically the elite in Honduras were fearful that this guy was going to follow the Chavez playbook and have the constitution changed to get rid of Presidential term limits right when his term was going to be up, and because he had made moves popular with the very poor in that country (of which there are a lot) getting rid of the term limits would keep him in power indefinitely. That course of action hasn't really helped Venezuela in the long term, so not sure Honduras would be any better either way. I'm sure Bernie has a real compelling take on how he would have handled this differently.

Cluck U wrote:

GannonFan wrote:This would be a bigger thing if Obama hadn't gone along with everything that Clinton was doing (or vice versa - Obama wasn't just a bystander in all of this). Dems aren't going to want to tarnish Obama by going after Hillary on this. Of course it was a coup, and of course it was illegal, but as far as anyone knows it wasn't instigated or initiated from outside the country - basically the elite in Honduras were fearful that this guy was going to follow the Chavez playbook and have the constitution changed to get rid of Presidential term limits right when his term was going to be up, and because he had made moves popular with the very poor in that country (of which there are a lot) getting rid of the term limits would keep him in power indefinitely. That course of action hasn't really helped Venezuela in the long term, so not sure Honduras would be any better either way. I'm sure Bernie has a real compelling take on how he would have handled this differently.

It will be interesting to see exactly how, and why, they got the Honduras' President out through an American military air base.

Base Security: Uh, what's in the van?

Kidnappers: Nothing.

Security: Oh, OK. Go ahead...I think there is a plane over there that is used for transporting nothings out of the country. Have a nice day.

GannonFan wrote:

Cluck U wrote:
It will be interesting to see exactly how, and why, they got the Honduras' President out through an American military air base.

Base Security: Uh, what's in the van?

Kidnappers: Nothing.

Security: Oh, OK. Go ahead...I think there is a plane over there that is used for transporting nothings out of the country. Have a nice day.

Like I said, anything that tarnishes Hillary would tarnish Obama even more, hence why it won't really come to anything.

"If you want to understand who the real power behind the [Honduran] coup is," says Robert White, president of the Washington-based Center for International Policy, during a recent interview, "you need to find out who's paying Lanny Davis."

Davis, an ally of the Clinton family who is best known as the lawyer who defended Bill during the presidential impeachment proceedings, was recently on Capitol Hill lobbying members of Congress and testifying against exiled President Manuel Zelaya before the House Foreign Relations Committee. White, who previously served as the United States ambassador to El Salvador, thought that such information about Davis' clients would be "very difficult to find."

But the answer proved easy to find. Davis, a partner at the law firm Orrick, Herrington, & Sutcliffe, openly named them -- and his clients are the same powerful Hondurans behind the military coup.

"My clients represent the CEAL, the [Honduras Chapter of] Business Council of Latin America," Davis said when reached at his office last Thursday. "I do not represent the government and do not talk to President [Roberto] Micheletti. My main contacts are Camilo Atala and Jorge Canahuati. I'm proud to represent businessmen who are committed to the rule of law." Atala, Canahuati, and other families that own the corporate interests represented by Davis and the CEAL are at the top of an economic pyramid in which 62 percent of the population lives in poverty, according to the World Bank.

For many Hondurans and Honduras watchers, the confirmation that Davis is working with powerful, old Honduran families like the Atalas and Canahuatis is telling: To them, it proves that Davis serves the powerful business interests that ran, repressed, and ruined Honduras during the decades prior to the leftward turn of the Zelaya presidency.

"No coup just happens because some politicians and military men decide one day to simply take over," White says upon hearing for whom Davis is working. "Coups happen because very wealthy people want them and help to make them happen, people who are used to seeing the country as a money machine and suddenly see social legislation on behalf of the poor as a threat to their interests. The average wage of a worker in free trade zones is 77 cents per hour."

"The tragedy," adds White, "is that the Canahuatis and the Atalas and the other big businesspeople don't understand that it's in their best interest to help to do things like help people make a decent living, reduce unemployment, and raise the minimum wage."

kalm wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
Like I said, anything that tarnishes Hillary would tarnish Obama even more, hence why it won't really come to anything.

Not only that, but the average American could give a rat's ass about what happens in Honduras or whether or not the US government and corporations influence what happens there even at the potential expense of democracy and rights.

"If you want to understand who the real power behind the [Honduran] coup is," says Robert White, president of the Washington-based Center for International Policy, during a recent interview, "you need to find out who's paying Lanny Davis."

Davis, an ally of the Clinton family who is best known as the lawyer who defended Bill during the presidential impeachment proceedings, was recently on Capitol Hill lobbying members of Congress and testifying against exiled President Manuel Zelaya before the House Foreign Relations Committee. White, who previously served as the United States ambassador to El Salvador, thought that such information about Davis' clients would be "very difficult to find."

But the answer proved easy to find. Davis, a partner at the law firm Orrick, Herrington, & Sutcliffe, openly named them -- and his clients are the same powerful Hondurans behind the military coup.

"My clients represent the CEAL, the [Honduras Chapter of] Business Council of Latin America," Davis said when reached at his office last Thursday. "I do not represent the government and do not talk to President [Roberto] Micheletti. My main contacts are Camilo Atala and Jorge Canahuati. I'm proud to represent businessmen who are committed to the rule of law." Atala, Canahuati, and other families that own the corporate interests represented by Davis and the CEAL are at the top of an economic pyramid in which 62 percent of the population lives in poverty, according to the World Bank.

For many Hondurans and Honduras watchers, the confirmation that Davis is working with powerful, old Honduran families like the Atalas and Canahuatis is telling: To them, it proves that Davis serves the powerful business interests that ran, repressed, and ruined Honduras during the decades prior to the leftward turn of the Zelaya presidency.

"No coup just happens because some politicians and military men decide one day to simply take over," White says upon hearing for whom Davis is working. "Coups happen because very wealthy people want them and help to make them happen, people who are used to seeing the country as a money machine and suddenly see social legislation on behalf of the poor as a threat to their interests. The average wage of a worker in free trade zones is 77 cents per hour."

"The tragedy," adds White, "is that the Canahuatis and the Atalas and the other big businesspeople don't understand that it's in their best interest to help to do things like help people make a decent living, reduce unemployment, and raise the minimum wage."

http://prospect.org/article/our-man-honduras

No it's not, you sanctimonious liberal do-gooder. Their best interest is to make caaaash!

DSUrocks07 wrote:

kalm wrote:
Not only that, but the average American could give a rat's ass about what happens in Honduras or whether or not the US government and corporations influence what happens there even at the potential expense of democracy and rights.





http://prospect.org/article/our-man-honduras

No it's not, you sanctimonious liberal do-gooder. Their best interest is to make caaaash!

YEAH! EMBRACE INEFFICIENCY IN THE NAME OF PROVIDING UNLIMITED EMPLOYMENT!! PROFITS (and keeping the doors open) BE DAMNED!

kalm wrote:Efficiency is relative.

DSUrocks07 wrote:

kalm wrote:Efficiency is relative.

It is, but not in the context you are implying.

I had a discussion with a hardcore, $15/hr minimum wage, 20 something lib the other day.

He argued that McDonald's could afford to pay $15 an hour because they make "millions of dollars a day".

So I asked him, "where would a multinational corporation get the money to be able to afford to pay the equivalent of $60-$100 million MORE in wages PER DAY to employees if they are making "millions a day".

"Oh they'll find it, if they can't afford it then maybe they shouldn't be in business."

The future leaders of the world everyone.

kalm wrote:

DSUrocks07 wrote:
It is, but not in the context you are implying.

I had a discussion with a hardcore, $15/hr minimum wage, 20 something lib the other day.

He argued that McDonald's could afford to pay $15 an hour because they make "millions of dollars a day".

So I asked him, "where would a multinational corporation get the money to be able to afford to pay the equivalent of $60-$100 million MORE in wages PER DAY to employees if they are making "millions a day".

"Oh they'll find it, if they can't afford it then maybe they shouldn't be in business."

The future leaders of the world everyone.

Yes it's always relative. It can be said that it's a highly efficient system when the "average free trade zone worker is making $.77 per hour". It's very efficient for some.

But this is only a part of the story regarding Honduras's issues of self-determination vs. oligarchy.

DSUrocks07 wrote:

kalm wrote:
Yes it's always relative. It can be said that it's a highly efficient system when the "average free trade zone worker is making $.77 per hour". It's very efficient for some.

But this is only a part of the story regarding Honduras's issues of self-determination vs. oligarchy.

But wasnt the free trade zone is supposed to be this wonderful thing that embraces everyone in the world and gives them all the same opportunities?

At least that's what the left claims.

It's interesting how supposedly implementing tariffs would "cause the price of goods to skyrocket, hurting the poor and middle class", but effectively doubling the minimum wage, increasing labor costs on the economy by trillions of dollars, will have "only a miniscule impact on prices"

Efficiency IS relative.

But so is economic policies.

andy7171 wrote:Minimum wage jobs are for dumb fucks and teenagers in high school, and self-admittedly college students. Trying to get by with some kind of spending money. Have we fallen down so far to expect a burger flipper, or bouncer(in my case) to live on that shitty wage? When I was making 7.25 it was 24 hours a week. Three 6 hour shifts. If I were on my own, I'd be busting my ass with 3-4 of those fucking menial jobs. Eventually, in a matter of weeks, you get promoted.

Pwns wrote:Henry Kissinger has taught her the ways of the force.

kalm wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
Like I said, anything that tarnishes Hillary would tarnish Obama even more, hence why it won't really come to anything.

Not only that, but the average American could give a rat's ass about what happens in Honduras or whether or not the US government and corporations influence what happens there even at the potential expense of democracy and rights.

"If you want to understand who the real power behind the [Honduran] coup is," says Robert White, president of the Washington-based Center for International Policy, during a recent interview, "you need to find out who's paying Lanny Davis."

Davis, an ally of the Clinton family who is best known as the lawyer who defended Bill during the presidential impeachment proceedings, was recently on Capitol Hill lobbying members of Congress and testifying against exiled President Manuel Zelaya before the House Foreign Relations Committee. White, who previously served as the United States ambassador to El Salvador, thought that such information about Davis' clients would be "very difficult to find."

But the answer proved easy to find. Davis, a partner at the law firm Orrick, Herrington, & Sutcliffe, openly named them -- and his clients are the same powerful Hondurans behind the military coup.

"My clients represent the CEAL, the [Honduras Chapter of] Business Council of Latin America," Davis said when reached at his office last Thursday. "I do not represent the government and do not talk to President [Roberto] Micheletti. My main contacts are Camilo Atala and Jorge Canahuati. I'm proud to represent businessmen who are committed to the rule of law." Atala, Canahuati, and other families that own the corporate interests represented by Davis and the CEAL are at the top of an economic pyramid in which 62 percent of the population lives in poverty, according to the World Bank.

For many Hondurans and Honduras watchers, the confirmation that Davis is working with powerful, old Honduran families like the Atalas and Canahuatis is telling: To them, it proves that Davis serves the powerful business interests that ran, repressed, and ruined Honduras during the decades prior to the leftward turn of the Zelaya presidency.

"No coup just happens because some politicians and military men decide one day to simply take over," White says upon hearing for whom Davis is working. "Coups happen because very wealthy people want them and help to make them happen, people who are used to seeing the country as a money machine and suddenly see social legislation on behalf of the poor as a threat to their interests. The average wage of a worker in free trade zones is 77 cents per hour."

"The tragedy," adds White, "is that the Canahuatis and the Atalas and the other big businesspeople don't understand that it's in their best interest to help to do things like help people make a decent living, reduce unemployment, and raise the minimum wage."

http://prospect.org/article/our-man-honduras

No it's not, you sanctimonious liberal do-gooder. Their best interest is to make caaaash!

kalm wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
Like I said, anything that tarnishes Hillary would tarnish Obama even more, hence why it won't really come to anything.

Not only that, but the average American could give a rat's ass about what happens in Honduras or whether or not the US government and corporations influence what happens there even at the potential expense of democracy and rights.

AZGrizFan wrote:

kalm wrote:
Not only that, but the average American could give a rat's ass about what happens in Honduras or whether or not the US government and corporations influence what happens there even at the potential expense of democracy and rights.

Hell, the average American couldn't give a rat's ass about what happened in BENGHAZI, let alone Honduras.

DSUrocks07 wrote: So I asked him, "where would a multinational corporation get the money to be able to afford to pay the equivalent of $60-$100 million MORE in wages PER DAY to employees if they are making "millions a day".

"Oh they'll find it, if they can't afford it then maybe they shouldn't be in business."

The future leaders of the world everyone.

Cluck U wrote:

DSUrocks07 wrote: So I asked him, "where would a multinational corporation get the money to be able to afford to pay the equivalent of $60-$100 million MORE in wages PER DAY to employees if they are making "millions a day".

"Oh they'll find it, if they can't afford it then maybe they shouldn't be in business."

The future leaders of the world everyone.

Scary.