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Ibanez wrote:The battle flag and streets named after Confederate generals isn't causing crime. It's a red herring. Cultures of hate, distrust and misunderstanding in black and white communities have more to do with race problems.

I'm proud to be from Charleston. I have ancestors that fought for the Union and Confederacy, but this flag is t about hate. That's a power that groups have given it. If we're going to remove it, then why not remove the U.S. flag, the flag that has wronged more blacks than the CSA ever did. A flag which flew over the country when we massacred Indians, mistreated immigrants, kept Slavery alive during the Civil War, waged war under bogus claims and gave the world the Kardashians.


Removing the flag will change nothing. Whites don't like blacks and vice versa due to history and the current culture. You can't legislate the problem away. It'll take a conscious effort from all of us to change the culture.

mrklean wrote:

Ibanez wrote:The battle flag and streets named after Confederate generals isn't causing crime. It's a red herring. Cultures of hate, distrust and misunderstanding in black and white communities have more to do with race problems.

I'm proud to be from Charleston. I have ancestors that fought for the Union and Confederacy, but this flag is t about hate. That's a power that groups have given it. If we're going to remove it, then why not remove the U.S. flag, the flag that has wronged more blacks than the CSA ever did. A flag which flew over the country when we massacred Indians, mistreated immigrants, kept Slavery alive during the Civil War, waged war under bogus claims and gave the world the Kardashians.


Removing the flag will change nothing. Whites don't like blacks and vice versa due to history and the current culture. You can't legislate the problem away. It'll take a conscious effort from all of us to change the culture.

We have no problem with each other on Friday, Saturday and Sunday afternoons during the fall.
We have no problems with each other when we all serve in the Military.
We have no problems when we have to work together in the aftermath of a natural or man made disaster.

So why is it that we just can't treat each other like humans. You don't have to like me, but you are going to respect me. Am I know I BULLSHIT a lot, but this s a serious question.

mrklean wrote:

Ibanez wrote:The battle flag and streets named after Confederate generals isn't causing crime. It's a red herring. Cultures of hate, distrust and misunderstanding in black and white communities have more to do with race problems.

I'm proud to be from Charleston. I have ancestors that fought for the Union and Confederacy, but this flag is t about hate. That's a power that groups have given it. If we're going to remove it, then why not remove the U.S. flag, the flag that has wronged more blacks than the CSA ever did. A flag which flew over the country when we massacred Indians, mistreated immigrants, kept Slavery alive during the Civil War, waged war under bogus claims and gave the world the Kardashians.


Removing the flag will change nothing. Whites don't like blacks and vice versa due to history and the current culture. You can't legislate the problem away. It'll take a conscious effort from all of us to change the culture.

We have no problem with each other on Friday, Saturday and Sunday afternoons during the fall.
We have no problems with each other when we all serve in the Military.
We have no problems when we have to work together in the aftermath of a natural or man made disaster.

So why is it that we just can't treat each other like humans. You don't have to like me, but you are going to respect me. Am I know I BULLSHIT a lot, but this s a serious question.

93henfan wrote:

mrklean wrote:

We have no problem with each other on Friday, Saturday and Sunday afternoons during the fall.
We have no problems with each other when we all serve in the Military.
We have no problems when we have to work together in the aftermath of a natural or man made disaster.

So why is it that we just can't treat each other like humans. You don't have to like me, but you are going to respect me. Am I know I BULLSHIT a lot, but this s a serious question.

It goes both ways. Blacks are every bit as racist as whites and commit more crimes per capita.

Look within and police your own ranks first.

You've said before that you mentor and teach young black men. Continue and encourage more of your peers to do the same. Teach them not to expect entitlements and that nobody owes them anything. They have never been a slave, nor has anyone they know, nor their parents or grandparents or great grandparents. Start looking forward instead of backward and you'll start to get somewhere. Teach them that everybody will have to deal with police at some point and that when you do you shut your mouth and do what you're told. It will save you a whole lot of trouble.

tribe_pride wrote:I don't think the government should represent the Confederate flag but it has nothing to do with the race part of it (because there was a ton of racism in the North as well as the South). I just don't believe that the government should support or celebrate a group that tried to secede from the Union. Same reason why I disagree with any government in the US celebrating or supporting Robert E. Lee Day.

tribe_pride wrote:I don't think the government should represent the Confederate flag but it has nothing to do with the race part of it (because there was a ton of racism in the North as well as the South). I just don't believe that the government should support or celebrate a group that tried to secede from the Union. Same reason why I disagree with any government in the US celebrating or supporting Robert E. Lee Day.

Ibanez wrote:eh, our country was founded by traitorous secessionists.

The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor. We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States.

Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself.

A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails.

Our system commits no such violation of nature’s laws. With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place. He, by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system.

93henfan wrote:

mrklean wrote:

We have no problem with each other on Friday, Saturday and Sunday afternoons during the fall.
We have no problems with each other when we all serve in the Military.
We have no problems when we have to work together in the aftermath of a natural or man made disaster.

So why is it that we just can't treat each other like humans. You don't have to like me, but you are going to respect me. Am I know I BULLSHIT a lot, but this s a serious question.

It goes both ways. Blacks are every bit as racist as whites and commit more crimes per capita.

Look within and police your own ranks first.

You've said before that you mentor and teach young black men. Continue and encourage more of your peers to do the same. Teach them not to expect entitlements and that nobody owes them anything. They have never been a slave, nor has anyone they know, nor their parents or grandparents or great grandparents. Start looking forward instead of backward and you'll start to get somewhere. Teach them that everybody will have to deal with police at some point and that when you do you shut your mouth and do what you're told. It will save you a whole lot of trouble.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

Ibanez wrote:eh, our country was founded by traitorous secessionists.

There's a HUGE difference between the motivations of both sides. The states seceded from the Union because of slavery. They're not laudable.

I know y'all are going to disagree with this. But, just read the reasons stated at the time.

From South Carolina's Ordinance of Secession:

The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor. We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States.

Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself.

A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/southcar ... ration.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



And, this is always the kicker to me....

The Vice President of the Confederate State of America......

The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails.

Our system commits no such violation of nature’s laws. With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place. He, by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system.

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/libr ... ne-speech/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



The corner stone of the Confederate States of America was slavery.

Ibanez wrote:

tribe_pride wrote:I don't think the government should represent the Confederate flag but it has nothing to do with the race part of it (because there was a ton of racism in the North as well as the South). I just don't believe that the government should support or celebrate a group that tried to secede from the Union. Same reason why I disagree with any government in the US celebrating or supporting Robert E. Lee Day.

eh, our country was founded by traitorous secessionists.

Vidav wrote:It's about heritage, not hate.

93henfan wrote:The flag has nothing to do with crime.

It may be heritage for folks with actual ties to the Confederacy. I wholeheartedly support their right to celebrate heritage.

Up here in the north, it just really makes you look like you have a low IQ or are trying to be purposely inflammatory if you fly it if you have no tie to it. And you'd be surprised how many people fly it on eastern shore Maryland and slower Delaware. A good percentage of lifted V8 trucks have stars and bars front plates as well. The redneck is alive and well here.

JohnStOnge wrote:

Vidav wrote:It's about heritage, not hate.

A significant difference is that NAZI Germany was interested in invading other countries. The Confederate States of America was not. Instead, the Confederate States of America was invaded by the United States of America. It was just trying to defend itself.