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Please allow The Cap'n to frame the ensuing, ahem, "discussion".

If you are a man, you have NO standing in this issue.

Thank you. Carry on.

Cap'n Cat wrote:Please allow The Cap'n to frame the ensuing, ahem, "discussion".

If you are a man, you have NO standing in this issue.

Thank you. Carry on.

Then I expect that to be your last post on the issue.

89Hen wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:Please allow The Cap'n to frame the ensuing, ahem, "discussion".

If you are a man, you have NO standing in this issue.

Thank you. Carry on.

Then I expect that to be your last post on the issue.

Except for this:

Was going to put a poll at the top asking who would have the FIRST non-Cappy post reply. And I woulda been right!!!

Heil abortion, curbing the spawning of the less-evolved races!

Any thinking lawyer knows this case has been effectively overruled for the past 23 years.

JoltinJoe wrote:Any thinking lawyer knows this case has been effectively overruled for the past 23 years.

Conrats on your "moral" victory.

It's more than a "moral" victory. That abortion is no longer deemed a "fundamental right," requiring that any restriction on abortion be subject to the strict scrutiny test, has resulted in the enactment of thousands of reasonable restrictions on abortion which would have been deemed unconstitutional under Roe's (ridiculous) reasoning.

Roe actually has driven more people to self-identify as "pro life." We are the American pro-life majority.

Since it is discussing Roe v. Wade, shouldn't the title of this thread read "Freedom from Reproduction" rather than "Reproductive Freedom"?

Nobody is excited about - and wants to have an abortion... Yay I get to have an abortion Yipee!!!!
No.. this isn't the way it works - its a nightmare for the person going through this

Keeping it a legal option is a critical part of logic and reason playing a role in our society
As soon as you make abortion illegal you eliminate the logical discussion of rape / incest / personal health / etc

Wanting abortion to be illegal is a stupid and dangerous mind set
its a fundamentalist rigid broken mindset that comes from thinking you know everything

We must never encourage abortion
but it can also never be illegal if we want a reasonable society

For something that's supposedly a nightmare, it sure seems to be a mode of birth control for some people.

And a lot of callous pro-abortion folks like to act like there is no difference between getting an abortion and getting a pap smear.

What was stupid was Roe v. Wade.

"Keeping abortion legal" and Roe v. Wade are two different things. Roe authorized abortion throughout the entire nine-month pregnancy period, and abortion on demand without any state restrictions during the first six months of a pregnancy. Roe was indefensible morally and constitutionally.

The Court's 1992 decision in Casey v. Planned Parenthood correctly rejected Roe's declaration that abortion was a "fundamental right." By holding instead that state restrictions on abortion were legal at all times during pregnancy, so long a state did not outlaw abortion entirely prior to the fetus' viability, and that any state restriction did not place an "undue burden" on a woman's access to an abortion in the period prior to viability, the Court gave states leeway to enact reasonable restraints on abortion, so as to genuinely promote the state's interest in protecting human life.

Since then, states have enacted safety laws placing abortion at least on the same footing as other out-patient surgical procedures; waiting period laws which permit a woman to contemplate her choice; and laws which require that doctors provide meaningful information to their patients concerning fetal development. All of this is good, because these developments undermined the nonsensical claim previously made by the abortion industry that "it's just a bunch of cells." These restraints really help a woman in a troubled pregnancy to really understand what an abortion entails.

In the years between Roe and Casey, abortion rates in the US increased every year. Since Casey, the abortion rate has decreased significantly.

Dred Scott. Plessy v. Ferguson. Roe v. Wade. The three worst decisions in US Constitutional history.

Pwns wrote:For something that's supposedly a nightmare, it sure seems to be a mode of birth control for some people.

And a lot of callous pro-abortion folks like to act like there is no difference between getting an abortion and getting a pap smear.

hell yeah, I'll take a pabst beer

Pwns wrote:For something that's supposedly a nightmare, it sure seems to be a mode of birth control for some people.

And a lot of callous pro-abortion folks like to act like there is no difference between getting an abortion and getting a pap smear.

Indeed,
but that's just the point - yes - like anything this volatile and conflicted
There are ugly examples

Because somebody shoots a toddler doesn't mean guns should be illegal
but that creates a provocative example to make an extreme point

All Shock value aside - I stand by my original point

Its not addressed in the constitution, so let the states decide.
-If a state wants to allow unfettered abortion on demand, that should be their right.
-If a state wants to outlaw all abortion, that should be their right.

And most states would fall somewhere between those 2 extremes if allowed to rule on their own. But just like in some many areas over the last 80+ years, we have the fed govt sticking its nose into a issue it has no business being involved in.

I don't think abortion should be illegal.

I also do not think it should be a choice. When it is a choice, it is murder. It really is that simple.

Religious opposition to abortion is not the strongest case against the practice, because it relies solely on a book that is supposedly based on what some bearded old man in the sky said. Not the best way to argue for or against the morality of killing.

Chizzang wrote:

Pwns wrote:For something that's supposedly a nightmare, it sure seems to be a mode of birth control for some people.

And a lot of callous pro-abortion folks like to act like there is no difference between getting an abortion and getting a pap smear.

Indeed,
but that's just the point - yes - like anything this volatile and conflicted
There are ugly examples

Because somebody shoots a toddler doesn't mean guns should be illegal
but that creates a provocative example to make an extreme point

All Shock value aside - I stand by my original point

And it is a good point to stand by. Despite my personal objections to abortion I could not in good conscience disallow someone else from exercising that option. I find it sad but if we are to be free we cannot be legislating morality.

TheDancinMonarch wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
Indeed,
but that's just the point - yes - like anything this volatile and conflicted
There are ugly examples

Because somebody shoots a toddler doesn't mean guns should be illegal
but that creates a provocative example to make an extreme point

All Shock value aside - I stand by my original point

And it is a good point to stand by. Despite my personal objections to abortion I could not in good conscience disallow someone else from exercising that option. I find it sad but if we are to be free we cannot be legislating morality.

Really?

Which laws in the a typical state's criminal code are not based on legislating morality?

That's a cop out position to take. Here's your test:

If the baby is going to kill the mother or create permanent damage to her health, then you abort.

If the mother actually has a choice as to whether or not to abort, then it is murder, period. If a woman chooses to abort a child because it was the product of a rape or incest (VERY rare in comparision to the number of yearly elective abortions, BTW) then there should be a clause permitting that.

It really IS that simple.

Chizzang wrote:
We must never encourage abortion
but it can also never be illegal if we want a reasonable society

By "encourage", do you mean public funding?

Cappy seems pretty damned happy over aborted babies.

CID1990 wrote:

TheDancinMonarch wrote:
And it is a good point to stand by. Despite my personal objections to abortion I could not in good conscience disallow someone else from exercising that option. I find it sad but if we are to be free we cannot be legislating morality.

Really?

Which laws in the a typical state's criminal code are not based on legislating morality?

That's a cop out position to take. Here's your test:

If the baby is going to kill the mother or create permanent damage to her health, then you abort.

If the mother actually has a choice as to whether or not to abort, then it is murder, period. If a woman chooses to abort a child because it was the product of a rape or incest (VERY rare in comparision to the number of yearly elective abortions, BTW) then there should be a clause permitting that.

It really IS that simple.

Murder..?
So you're the decider when life begins (interesting perspective) and meets my previous posts observation
Where I mention something about coming from a place where you think you know everything

Yoga pants are destroying the movement!

At least that is the notion of many of the youngsters, mostly female, bused in from Christian and Catholic schools to present a freshly scrubbed face in place of the withered old men and women who think those same schoolgirls are in mortal danger every minute of every day of spreading their whore legs. Probably for an atheist. Also, there will be ‘sexting.’

Nowhere is that more perfectly inferred than in a tweet by Adam Cassandra, the ‘Fundraising Communications Manager’ at Human Life International (“For the Glory of God and defense of Life, Faith and Family”) who was …. oh, let’s call it “dismayed” by the attire of the young Up With Babies, Down With Abortion gals who were, to his eyes, struttin’ their sexy-stuff:

Adam Cassandra @adamcassandra
Follow
There are far too many young Catholic girls wearing yoga pants at March for Life. #modesty @MattWalshBlog
11:06 AM - 22 Jan 2015


How is one to celebrate the miracle of life — the Spark of God that marries one speedy sperm and one egg with a come-hither vibe to make a baby — with all of those pert buttocks and long tawny legs being shoved down your throat. In a manner of speaking.

Those tramps. Those harlots. The trollops. Those long lean thighs….

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/the- ... epy-tweet/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

kalm wrote:Yoga pants are destroying the movement!

At least that is the notion of many of the youngsters, mostly female, bused in from Christian and Catholic schools to present a freshly scrubbed face in place of the withered old men and women who think those same schoolgirls are in mortal danger every minute of every day of spreading their whore legs. Probably for an atheist. Also, there will be ‘sexting.’

Nowhere is that more perfectly inferred than in a tweet by Adam Cassandra, the ‘Fundraising Communications Manager’ at Human Life International (“For the Glory of God and defense of Life, Faith and Family”) who was …. oh, let’s call it “dismayed” by the attire of the young Up With Babies, Down With Abortion gals who were, to his eyes, struttin’ their sexy-stuff:

Adam Cassandra @adamcassandra
Follow
There are far too many young Catholic girls wearing yoga pants at March for Life. #modesty @MattWalshBlog
11:06 AM - 22 Jan 2015


How is one to celebrate the miracle of life — the Spark of God that marries one speedy sperm and one egg with a come-hither vibe to make a baby — with all of those pert buttocks and long tawny legs being shoved down your throat. In a manner of speaking.

Those tramps. Those harlots. The trollops. Those long lean thighs….

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/the- ... epy-tweet/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The issue of whether abortion = murder depends upon the point at which life begins. That is the basis for the debate.

Some hold life begins at conception, when the egg from the female and the sperm from the male unite to form a new person. Others argue that life begins when the baby exits the mother's womb. Many people believe life begins some where in between.

Where your personal beliefs lie on the issue of where life begins governs your thoughts about abortion.

When my wife was pregnant with our second daughter, we faced the issue of a general test that showed there could be severe genetic problems with the baby early in the pregnancy. I am very glad that the follow up, more specific tests showed that not to be the case.

From that very personal experience I have come to believe that abortion is not really a matter of government business, except to make it safe and make sure that it doesn't cross the line (which will never be established) into murder. Therefore it is my belief that government should not really be involved including paying for abortion or legislating that insurance companies pay for abortion.