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Decades of price fixing and bank profiteering are over...
...consumer energy value and industry growth wins!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilp ... -dies.html

I'm sorry, but did you mention free market somewhere in there?

Say goodbye to US oil production

DSUrocks07 wrote:Say goodbye to US oil production

It will come back. It's going to bounce back and forth for the next 50 years. Cartels like OPEC are always going to be in flux, that's the nature of cartels. Oil will flood the market right now and prices will go down and eventually production will slow down. Prices will creep back up and production will as well. So the cycle will continue for probably long after we've kicked the bucket.

One of the NPR podcasts I listen to had a very good discussion OPEC and how at the beginning they were more cohesive and united as compared to today. It's amazing.

And I thought oil prices went up because of US oil kkkompany greed.

GannonFan wrote:

DSUrocks07 wrote:Say goodbye to US oil production

It will come back. It's going to bounce back and forth for the next 50 years. Cartels like OPEC are always going to be in flux, that's the nature of cartels. Oil will flood the market right now and prices will go down and eventually production will slow down. Prices will creep back up and production will as well. So the cycle will continue for probably long after we've kicked the bucket.

"FREE MARKET!!!! AAWWWWW!!"

Pwns wrote:And I thought oil prices went up because of US oil kkkompany greed.

Thanks Obama!

Ibanez wrote:One of the NPR podcasts I listen to had a very good discussion OPEC and how at the beginning they were more cohesive and united as compared to today. It's amazing.

Just the nature of cartels, they all follow the same pattern. It's game theory Nash-style.

GannonFan wrote:

Ibanez wrote:One of the NPR podcasts I listen to had a very good discussion OPEC and how at the beginning they were more cohesive and united as compared to today. It's amazing.

Just the nature of cartels, they all follow the same pattern. It's game theory Nash-style.

True. But i'll add that the cartel has increasingly been less cohesive and undermining each other. It's only a matter of time before the cartel is dead.

Ibanez wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
Just the nature of cartels, they all follow the same pattern. It's game theory Nash-style.

True. But i'll add that the cartel has increasingly been less cohesive and undermining each other. It's only a matter of time before the cartel is dead.

I agree with that - it's the global nature of oil now. The cartel was better organized when oil production was so dependent on the Middle East. Now with so much more players in the game one region can't dictate the flow.

Thank goodness for fracking.

We really DO NOT want the OPEC cartel to be "dead" people...
and the idea that OPEC ceases to exist in any meaningful way (as stated in the article is bullsh!t)

Leave it up to a British rag to completely botch the primary issue with OPEC
Any article on global OIL and OPEC that does not mention Petrol Dollars is flawed

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/ ... YZ20141103" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_recycling" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chizzang wrote:We really DO NOT want the OPEC cartel to be "dead" people...
and the idea that OPEC ceases to exist in any meaningful way (as stated in the article is bullsh!t)

Leave it up to a British rag to completely botch the primary issue with OPEC
Any article on global OIL and OPEC that does not mention Petrol Dollars is flawed

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/ ... YZ20141103" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_recycling" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Says the guy with a petroportfolio.

travelinman67 wrote:

Chizzang wrote:We really DO NOT want the OPEC cartel to be "dead" people...
and the idea that OPEC ceases to exist in any meaningful way (as stated in the article is bullsh!t)

Leave it up to a British rag to completely botch the primary issue with OPEC
Any article on global OIL and OPEC that does not mention Petrol Dollars is flawed

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/ ... YZ20141103" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_recycling" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Says the guy with a petroportfolio.

You're such a douche


BTW: I'm a big fan of OPEC

Chizzang wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:
Says the guy with a petroportfolio.

You're such a douche


BTW: I'm a big fan of OPEC

Says the guy who defends AGW theory.

Ain't the only thing you've been wrong 'bout...

travelinman67 wrote:

Chizzang wrote:

You're such a douche


BTW: I'm a big fan of OPEC

Says the guy who defends AGW theory.

Ain't the only thing you've been wrong 'bout...

Another thread where Tbag gets tbagged.

travelinman67 wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
It will come back. It's going to bounce back and forth for the next 50 years. Cartels like OPEC are always going to be in flux, that's the nature of cartels. Oil will flood the market right now and prices will go down and eventually production will slow down. Prices will creep back up and production will as well. So the cycle will continue for probably long after we've kicked the bucket.

"FREE MARKET!!!! AAWWWWW!!"

Cheap oil right now blows a big hole in the "energy independence" doctrine pushed by the right, imported oil is still more cost-effective than expanding US production.

DSUrocks07 wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:
"FREE MARKET!!!! AAWWWWW!!"

Cheap oil right now blows a big hole in the "energy independence" doctrine pushed by the right, imported oil is still more cost-effective than expanding US production.

But oil is, no pun intended, fluid. There is "energy independence" even if we get our oil from foreign suppliers. The independence comes from the threat that we could very well supply ourselves the same oil we buy elsewhere, and that to stop us from doing that, the price needs to be considerably lower than it was. That's what's happening now - countries that rely almost exclusively on oil are slashing their prices so that they can at least something. Sure, that means that we produce less here than if the price was higher, but the fact that we can produce here if we had to keeps the oil price down, limiting what the exporting country can charge. And if we don't like how a country is acting, we can choose not to buy from them at all. Politics by economics. This is what energy independence looks like - it's not us erecting a wall around the country and never looking out, it's us not being forced to accept a price or a country's behavior because we can't live without their oil.

GannonFan wrote:
But oil is, no pun intended, fluid. There is "energy independence" even if we get our oil from foreign suppliers. The independence comes from the threat that we could very well supply ourselves the same oil we buy elsewhere, and that to stop us from doing that, the price needs to be considerably lower than it was. That's what's happening now - countries that rely almost exclusively on oil are slashing their prices so that they can at least something. Sure, that means that we produce less here than if the price was higher, but the fact that we can produce here if we had to keeps the oil price down, limiting what the exporting country can charge. And if we don't like how a country is acting, we can choose not to buy from them at all. Politics by economics. This is what energy independence looks like - it's not us erecting a wall around the country and never looking out, it's us not being forced to accept a price or a country's behavior because we can't live without their oil.

This ^ is a good post GonadFan

GannonFan wrote: But oil is, no pun intended, fluid. There is "energy independence" even if we get our oil from foreign suppliers. The independence comes from the threat that we could very well supply ourselves the same oil we buy elsewhere, and that to stop us from doing that, the price needs to be considerably lower than it was. That's what's happening now - countries that rely almost exclusively on oil are slashing their prices so that they can at least something. Sure, that means that we produce less here than if the price was higher, but the fact that we can produce here if we had to keeps the oil price down, limiting what the exporting country can charge. And if we don't like how a country is acting, we can choose not to buy from them at all. Politics by economics. This is what energy independence looks like - it's not us erecting a wall around the country and never looking out, it's us not being forced to accept a price or a country's behavior because we can't live without their oil.

Yes and no. Oil production is capital and labor intensive. You can't just turn on the spigots overnight. OPEC is trying to shake out the marginal American producers who won't come back into the market even when oil prices increase. It takes a few years to really ramp up domestic oil production.

CitadelGrad wrote:

GannonFan wrote: But oil is, no pun intended, fluid. There is "energy independence" even if we get our oil from foreign suppliers. The independence comes from the threat that we could very well supply ourselves the same oil we buy elsewhere, and that to stop us from doing that, the price needs to be considerably lower than it was. That's what's happening now - countries that rely almost exclusively on oil are slashing their prices so that they can at least something. Sure, that means that we produce less here than if the price was higher, but the fact that we can produce here if we had to keeps the oil price down, limiting what the exporting country can charge. And if we don't like how a country is acting, we can choose not to buy from them at all. Politics by economics. This is what energy independence looks like - it's not us erecting a wall around the country and never looking out, it's us not being forced to accept a price or a country's behavior because we can't live without their oil.

Yes and no. Oil production is capital and labor intensive. You can't just turn on the spigots overnight. OPEC is trying to shake out the marginal American producers who won't come back into the market even when oil prices increase. It takes a few years to really ramp up domestic oil production.

My point exactly, as long as oil prices remain low its hinders development of domestic oil fields and other extraction techniques. That's where established oil producers have the advantage. Higher prices made it financially viable for newer exploratory processes to compete. To counteract this as prices fall, you will have to see more government subsidies to "Big Oil". And we know how much everyone on both sides love that.

My employer has a business relationship with another company that does a lot in the Bakken. This is what they are saying for what it's worth:

The small companies need oil at $60 to break even. The big companies need oil at $40 to break even. This means the small ones will go broke and sell out to the big ones. This will actually help lower the $40 number to maybe $35 or lower for the big guys. They also said almost every producer is hedged at prices that were profitable for the next 6-12 months so there won't be a huge impact for at least that long.

A lot could change in the next 6-12 months.

Chizzang wrote: BTW: I'm a big fan of OPIE

*corrected for spelling error.

CitadelGrad wrote:

GannonFan wrote: But oil is, no pun intended, fluid. There is "energy independence" even if we get our oil from foreign suppliers. The independence comes from the threat that we could very well supply ourselves the same oil we buy elsewhere, and that to stop us from doing that, the price needs to be considerably lower than it was. That's what's happening now - countries that rely almost exclusively on oil are slashing their prices so that they can at least something. Sure, that means that we produce less here than if the price was higher, but the fact that we can produce here if we had to keeps the oil price down, limiting what the exporting country can charge. And if we don't like how a country is acting, we can choose not to buy from them at all. Politics by economics. This is what energy independence looks like - it's not us erecting a wall around the country and never looking out, it's us not being forced to accept a price or a country's behavior because we can't live without their oil.

Yes and no. Oil production is capital and labor intensive. You can't just turn on the spigots overnight. OPEC is trying to shake out the marginal American producers who won't come back into the market even when oil prices increase. It takes a few years to really ramp up domestic oil production.

I don't disagree, but even if we turn the spigots off here domestically we still have the threat to turn them back on (and yes, that would take money and time to do so). That's what's important for energy independence - the fact that we are not reliant on another country to solely supply us. Of course, it sucks for people employed domestically in those jobs and there will be knock-down effects due to this, but from a national perspective we've reached energy independence as a bargaining chip.

Damn, my friend in TX just posted that he was let go of his job at Schlumberger because of restructuring due to the oil price decrease. He had a pretty technical and specialized position too.

The sad thing is that he just bought a new home and car about 6-8 months ago.