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Cops need to be protected while doing their job, and I'm guessing no one was out to kill Garner, it was an accident. I still think the cop should be held accountable for some degree of negligence however and Peter King should be held accountable for first degree douchebaggery.

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) said on Wednesday that if Eric Garner had been healthier, he would not have died after a police officer placed him in a chokehold.

"If he had not had asthma, and a heart condition and was so obese, almost definitely he would not have died from this," King told CNN's Wolf Blitzer during an interview.

Even though video captured Garner saying that he couldn't breathe as officer Daniel Pantaleo placed him in a chokehold and wrestled him to the ground, King said that "police had no reason to know that he was in serious condition."


"The fact is if you can't breathe, you can't talk," King said. "If you've ever seen anyone resisting arrest, I've seen it, and it's been white guys, and they're always saying, 'You're breaking my arm, you're choking me, you're doing this,' police hear this all the time."

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I would love the see the testimony in this case.

But once again, comply with the police's request and nobody gets hurt.

Choke holds are banned as a matter of policy. The officer will be stripped of his executive authority and power of arrest, and he is going to REALLY have it broken off in his ass in the lawsuit.

But he will keep his job and pension most likely because...... public employee union.

Sounds like he needed Obamacare

Interesting that a member of the party that raised all sorts of shit about "being able to eat and drink as much as we want is the American way!!!" Is calling out someone because of their obesity.

Yet another example of how both sides are hypocrites.

Maybe if selling single cigarettes wasn't against the law and a money maker for the City, this unfortunate death wouldn't have even come close to even happening.

I wish someone would put Peter King in a chokehold.











and John McCain and Lindsey Graham

OL FU wrote:I wish someone would put Peter King in a chokehold.











and John McCain and Lindsey Graham

I'm not too familiar with the case, but wasn't this guy mentally challenged?

Regardless, the choke hold is not allowed. I saw the video, it was completely unnecessary. This death could've been supported.

Ibanez wrote:Regardless, the choke hold is not allowed. I saw the video, it was completely unnecessary. This death could've been supported.

I think you meant "irregardless".

CID1990 wrote:Choke holds are banned as a matter of policy. The officer will be stripped of his executive authority and power of arrest, and he is going to REALLY have it broken off in his ass in the lawsuit.

But he will keep his job and pension most likely because...... public employee union.

That's what I don't get - the guy did something to a civilian (a choke hold) that was expressly forbidden by police guidelines, when his own life was not really in danger, and yet the grand jury can't find something to charge him with? Equating this with the Michael Brown case is apples to oranges, IMO, in this case the cop clearly violated his own police force rules, with no apparent cause to do so, and those actions resulted in a death. It's not murder, that's way too hard to prove here, but negligent manslaughter or something like that looks like a slam dunk. Would be great if the grand jury deliberations in this case were made public.

As you know if you've seen me write about cops I think cops are allowed too much latitude in pushing citizens around. However, that was a relatively "gentle" incident. If you resist cops like that you are likely to get treated pretty harshly. I tried to find a video that was around a couple of years ago that showed this woman in her panties who stole a truck and drove it around. At the end she got up and ran up to a cop to surrender. The guy got VERY rough with her. Frankly, a lot rougher than those cops got with Garner.

The bad thing about this is the continuing narrative that it's a race thing. I think we all know, or should know, that if that had been a big White guy who responded like Garner did the same thing would've happened. And BTW I think the same is true of the Ferguson Missouri case.

I really, really wish we didn't have people "enabling" the Black Paranoia thing. And it's REALLY disgusting when you see White people doing it. Like that speech by the mayor of New York was absolutely inexcusable. Instead of telling the truth...which is that this is not a race thing...he went into a long diatribe feeding the paranoia.

That's what I don't get - the guy did something to a civilian (a choke hold) that was expressly forbidden by police guidelines,

On several occasions today I saw statements by former police officers on both Fox News and MSNBC that what that guy did was not a choke hold. They said it is a technique that is taught to police and is used all the time. A choke hold, they said, is designed to cut off the flow of the carotid artery or cut off the air flow in the trachea to render someone unconscious and that's not what the officer was doing.

So there are at least some people who happen to have experience in the field saying that what that guy did is not the thing that is forbidden by police guidelines.

kalm wrote:

Ibanez wrote:Regardless, the choke hold is not allowed. I saw the video, it was completely unnecessary. This death could've been supported.

I think you meant "irregardless".

I almost wrote that just for G8.

JohnStOnge wrote:

That's what I don't get - the guy did something to a civilian (a choke hold) that was expressly forbidden by police guidelines,

On several occasions today I saw statements by former police officers on both Fox News and MSNBC that what that guy did was not a choke hold. They said it is a technique that is taught to police and is used all the time. A choke hold, they said, is designed to cut off the flow of the carotid artery or cut off the air flow in the trachea to render someone unconscious and that's not what the officer was doing.

So there are at least some people who happen to have experience in the field saying that what that guy did is not the thing that is forbidden by police guidelines.

Didn't this guy cut off air flow?

Didn't this guy cut off air flow?

Not according to the guys I'm talking about. And besides, I think the answer to that question is obviously "no." As the accused officer said, the fact that the guy could so clearly say "I can't breath" pretty much showed he could breath. Think about it. Think about how clearly and audibly he said that. If your air flow is cut off, you're not going to be able to do that.

Now, maybe his breathing was impaired some. Maybe the hold had something to do with it or maybe he was having an asthma attack. But his air flow was obviously not cut off if you could hear him say what he was saying as clearly as you did.

And really, the bottom line is we all know that if ANYBODY resists arrest like that regardless of what their race or even sex is the chances of them ending up getting roughed up by the police are pretty darned good. I mean REALLY people. That, to me, was absolutely GENTLE treatment in a situation like that compared to some of the things I've seen on video in the past when people don't comply with police orders. I'm not saying I like that it's like that but it's like that. You do what that guy did in terms of not complying in New Orleans, for instance, and you're going to get the crap kicked out of you if you're Black or White or Asian or from Mars. It's going to be a WHOLE lot worse than what those New York cops did.

Good GRIEF. This thing of making this particular incident about race is pretty bad.

JohnStOnge wrote:And really, the bottom line is we all know that if ANYBODY resists arrest like that regardless of what their race or even sex is the chances of them ending up getting roughed up by the police are pretty darned good. I mean REALLY people. That, to me, was absolutely GENTLE treatment in a situation like that compared to some of the things I've seen on video in the past when people don't comply with police orders. I'm not saying I like that it's like that but it's like that. You do what that guy did in terms of not complying in New Orleans, for instance, and you're going to get the crap kicked out of you if you're Black or White or Asian or from Mars. It's going to be a WHOLE lot worse than what those New York cops did.

Good GRIEF. This thing of making this particular incident about race is pretty bad.

You do realize he died, right?

If the cops busted a Wall Street exec for a financial crime such as this, would he have been placed in a choke hold?

Would he have been white?

kalm wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:And really, the bottom line is we all know that if ANYBODY resists arrest like that regardless of what their race or even sex is the chances of them ending up getting roughed up by the police are pretty darned good. I mean REALLY people. That, to me, was absolutely GENTLE treatment in a situation like that compared to some of the things I've seen on video in the past when people don't comply with police orders. I'm not saying I like that it's like that but it's like that. You do what that guy did in terms of not complying in New Orleans, for instance, and you're going to get the crap kicked out of you if you're Black or White or Asian or from Mars. It's going to be a WHOLE lot worse than what those New York cops did.

Good GRIEF. This thing of making this particular incident about race is pretty bad.

You do realize he died, right?

If the cops busted a Wall Street exec for a financial crime such as this, would he have been placed in a choke hold?

Would he have been white?

Not if he din't resist.

BDKJMU wrote:

kalm wrote:
You do realize he died, right?

If the cops busted a Wall Street exec for a financial crime such as this, would he have been placed in a choke hold?

Would he have been white?

Not if he din't resist.

Why wouldn't he resist? He's above the law...

Ibanez wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:
On several occasions today I saw statements by former police officers on both Fox News and MSNBC that what that guy did was not a choke hold. They said it is a technique that is taught to police and is used all the time. A choke hold, they said, is designed to cut off the flow of the carotid artery or cut off the air flow in the trachea to render someone unconscious and that's not what the officer was doing.

So there are at least some people who happen to have experience in the field saying that what that guy did is not the thing that is forbidden by police guidelines.

Didn't this guy cut off air flow?

The Lateral Vascular Neck Hold (shown below) is what was taught to L.E. and subsequently banned by NYPD. That hold interrupts the flow of oxygenated blood to the brain and renders the person unconscious in 6 to 15 seconds. The Lateral Vascular Neck Hold was specifically designed NOT TO CONTACT THE WINDPIPE OR OBSTRUCT AIRFLOW (note the officer's arm forming a "V" at the front of the neck.).



Officer Patela wasn't using a chokehold on Garner, rather, Patela merely used his arm across the front of Garner's neck to gainleverage control against a gigantic man who was resisting.

Ultimately, had NYPD NOT banned the lateral vascular hold, and had Patela properly used a vascular hold to incapacitate Garner, Garner probably would have survived.

GannonFan wrote:

CID1990 wrote:Choke holds are banned as a matter of policy. The officer will be stripped of his executive authority and power of arrest, and he is going to REALLY have it broken off in his ass in the lawsuit.

But he will keep his job and pension most likely because...... public employee union.

That's what I don't get - the guy did something to a civilian (a choke hold) that was expressly forbidden by police guidelines, when his own life was not really in danger, and yet the grand jury can't find something to charge him with? Equating this with the Michael Brown case is apples to oranges, IMO, in this case the cop clearly violated his own police force rules, with no apparent cause to do so, and those actions resulted in a death. It's not murder, that's way too hard to prove here, but negligent manslaughter or something like that looks like a slam dunk. Would be great if the grand jury deliberations in this case were made public.

Thats the crux of the issue that so many people misunderstand in all of this. Choke holds are banned not because police use them to kill people (that would be criminal) but because they can be dangerous if you dont do them exactly right, especially with people who may have other underlying health issues. So negligence does most closely describe what this guy did, but the consequences are going to be civil, not criminal. The rules grand juries operate under make it difficult to indict police criminally for deaths where the officer is trying to make a lawful arrest. The reason for this is that if the contact itself is lawful, then so is a certain amount of violence. The grand jury would have to determine that it was the officer's intent to kill the suspect and intent is one of the hardest things to prove in any legal case.

This leads to situations like this one, but it is very similar to the "no duty to protect" rule- it is there for a very legitimate reason that is not always obvious. Especially when something like this happens.

travelinman67 wrote:

Ibanez wrote:
Didn't this guy cut off air flow?

The Lateral Vascular Neck Hold (shown below) is what was taught to L.E. and subsequently banned by NYPD. That hold interrupts the flow of oxygenated blood to the brain and renders the person unconscious in 6 to 15 seconds. The Lateral Vascular Neck Hold was specifically designed NOT TO CONTACT THE WINDPIPE OR OBSTRUCT AIRFLOW (note the officer's arm forming a "V" at the front of the neck.).



Officer Patela wasn't using a chokehold on Garner, rather, Patela merely used his arm across the front of Garner's neck to gainleverage control against a gigantic man who was resisting.

Ultimately, had NYPD NOT banned the lateral vascular hold, and had Patela properly used a vascular hold to incapacitate Garner, Garner probably would have survived.

Thanks.

All I really care about is I'm going to NYC in a month & don't want to see any jobless protestors stopping traffic, etc....