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Obama announces plan to ban refrigerant manufacture with no viable alternate technology.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... id=HP_more

"I'll just ban breathing. We add a $25 per breath fine. If air is that
important to people, they'll develop an alternative method of
breathing so their CO2 won't pollute the planet."

GObama!!!!!!! Doin' the things Reagan only dreamed he could do!!!!!






Conks said the same thing about DDT.

Reagan grew industry.

Obama's destroying America.

Which explains why you support him, Trotsky.

Why is he not going after carbonated drinks? Beer, soda, etc.?

What kind of refrigerant? ACers in cars and homes? Or refridgerators and freezers? WTF?

travelinman67 wrote:Obama announces plan to ban refrigerant manufacture with no viable alternate technology.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... id=HP_more

Maybe we didn't read the same article.

“One leading alternative to R-134a — HFO1234YF — can be used in most existing cooling systems without significant modifications.

If we don’t deal with the HFC problem now, in the future these gases are going to kill us,” Zaelke said. “Fortunately, there are already replacement technologies for most uses, and you can take steps now that are relatively small and cheap.”

Cluck U wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:Obama announces plan to ban refrigerant manufacture with no viable alternate technology.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... id=HP_more

Maybe we didn't read the same article.

“One leading alternative to R-134a — HFO1234YF — can be used in most existing cooling systems without significant modifications.

If we don’t deal with the HFC problem now, in the future these gases are going to kill us,” Zaelke said. “Fortunately, there are already replacement technologies for most uses, and you can take steps now that are relatively small and cheap.”

HFO1234YF is a Dupont proprietary (patented) product, with no current market manufacturing. Very expensive (production cost); operates at very high pressure; degrades into a highly flammable strong acid, NOT WATER SOLUBLE.

Do the math. Refrigerant leaks in a home are deadly: In a car, in a collission, becomes a bomb, or if expulsion without ignition, creates an acidic cloud strong enough to etch glass.

India and Germany have already banned HFO1234YF for commercial applications.

The proposition that it is viable is simply propaganda.

travelinman67 wrote:

Cluck U wrote:
Maybe we didn't read the same article.

“One leading alternative to R-134a — HFO1234YF — can be used in most existing cooling systems without significant modifications.

If we don’t deal with the HFC problem now, in the future these gases are going to kill us,” Zaelke said. “Fortunately, there are already replacement technologies for most uses, and you can take steps now that are relatively small and cheap.”

HFO1234YF is a Dupont proprietary (patented) product, with no current market manufacturing. Very expensive (production cost); operates at very high pressure; degrades into a highly flammable strong acid, NOT WATER SOLUBLE.

Do the math. Refrigerant leaks in a home are deadly: In a car, in a collission, becomes a bomb, or if expulsion without ignition, creates an acidic cloud strong enough to etch glass.

India and Germany have already banned HFO1234YF for commercial applications.

The proposition that it is viable is simply propaganda.

Thanks.

Then Zaeke is a liar for gObomba.

Whenever someone says there is a "cheap" alternative, you have to wonder how much money the producer of that alternative pays to people in Washington.

Cluck U wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:
HFO1234YF is a Dupont proprietary (patented) product, with no current market manufacturing. Very expensive (production cost); operates at very high pressure; degrades into a highly flammable strong acid, NOT WATER SOLUBLE.

Do the math. Refrigerant leaks in a home are deadly: In a car, in a collission, becomes a bomb, or if expulsion without ignition, creates an acidic cloud strong enough to etch glass.

India and Germany have already banned HFO1234YF for commercial applications.

The proposition that it is viable is simply propaganda.

Thanks.

Then Zaeke is a liar for gObomba.

Whenever someone says there is a "cheap" alternative, you have to wonder how much money the producer of that alternative pays to people in Washington.

Spot on.

If it sounds too good to be true, it ain't true...

...Especially when govt is involved.

HFO1234YF actually is banned because of secondary fire standards... in the automotive market
It does not degrade into acid - unless you are at an atmospheric pressure above sea level (such as a submarine) but at sea level and above it stays a gas

BUT!!!! it is a genuine fire hazard

I knew it! Tman67 is part of BigRefridgerant!

Chizzang wrote:HFO1234YF actually is banned because of secondary fire standards... in the automotive market
It does not degrade into acid - unless you are at an atmospheric pressure above sea level (such as a submarine) but at sea level and above it stays a gas

BUT!!!! it is a genuine fire hazard

It's not banned in the automotive market, GM and Chrysler have been using it for a year or two in new models. It's the German Automakers who have decided not to use it because they think the flammability issue is risky enough that they are pursuing other alternatives, none of which exist at this moment.

Of course, all of these things are tinged with politics. You have to wonder if DuPont and Honeywell, both of whom hold the lionshare of the patents on this product, weren't American companies, would Obama be pushing to speed up the adoption of this replacements? Same goes for the Germans, if this was BASF that held those patents, would we be trying to speed up the adoption and would those German Automakers be chiding us for being Luddites? At the end of the day, though, the truth is in the middle - it is a bit more of a hazard from the flammability standpoint, but it really is also immensely less dangerous to the environment than the current product.

Chizzang wrote:HFO1234YF actually is banned because of secondary fire standards... in the automotive market
It does not degrade into acid - unless you are at an atmospheric pressure above sea level (such as a submarine) but at sea level and above it stays a gas

Trifluoroacetic Acid.

Hydrogen Fluoride when burned.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HFO-1234yf

GoBama!!

Take action so your grandkids will have a world to live in!

travelinman67 wrote:

Chizzang wrote:HFO1234YF actually is banned because of secondary fire standards... in the automotive market
It does not degrade into acid - unless you are at an atmospheric pressure above sea level (such as a submarine) but at sea level and above it stays a gas

Trifluoroacetic Acid.

Hydrogen Fluoride when burned.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HFO-1234yf

Um... That Wiki article is pretty pro HFO1234
It says its NOT flamable enough to worry about and is a "drop in" replacement

Cluck U wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:
HFO1234YF is a Dupont proprietary (patented) product, with no current market manufacturing. Very expensive (production cost); operates at very high pressure; degrades into a highly flammable strong acid, NOT WATER SOLUBLE.

Do the math. Refrigerant leaks in a home are deadly: In a car, in a collission, becomes a bomb, or if expulsion without ignition, creates an acidic cloud strong enough to etch glass.

India and Germany have already banned HFO1234YF for commercial applications.

The proposition that it is viable is simply propaganda.

Thanks.

Then Zaeke is a liar for gObomba.

Whenever someone says there is a "cheap" alternative, you have to wonder how much money the producer of that alternative pays to people in Washington.

Hey…money is speech! Quit crapping on constitutional rights, will ya!

Chizzang wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:
Trifluoroacetic Acid.

Hydrogen Fluoride when burned.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HFO-1234yf

Um... That Wiki article is pretty pro HFO1234
It says its NOT flamable enough to worry about and is a "drop in" replacement

HEY!!!!!

Squirrel chaser!!!

We were talking about acidification.

Stay focused!!!





Fucking A.D.D.ers

dbackjon wrote:GoBama!!

Take action so your grandkids will have a world to live in!

Take your own advice...

...go straight. Have kids.