Thank you coal!

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HI54UNI
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by HI54UNI »

Col Hogan wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:41 pm
HI54UNI wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:14 am Power and natural gas markets going absolutely crazy yesterday, today, and expected through Tuesday due to the extreme cold in flyover country. We had to run our fleet of diesel generators yesterday and again today through Tuesday.

Our region of the power market has 20,000 MW of coal capacity. 18,000 MW were online and working yesterday. It also has 27,000 MW of wind capacity but only 2,700 MW were operating due to lack of wind. So at that ratio we would have needed another 180,000 MW of wind to replace the coal that was running. Shutting down fossil fuel generation is going to be a great idea!
There are predictions of possible intermittent power outages in Texas because of our large wind power farms, due to the polar vortex...just like in the upper mid-west...

https://energynews.us/2019/02/27/midwes ... st-debate/
I see there are rolling blackouts in Texas. Hope you're safe and warm Colonel.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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HI54UNI wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:54 am
Col Hogan wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:41 pm

There are predictions of possible intermittent power outages in Texas because of our large wind power farms, due to the polar vortex...just like in the upper mid-west...

https://energynews.us/2019/02/27/midwes ... st-debate/
I see there are rolling blackouts in Texas. Hope you're safe and warm Colonel.
Ours is out for 5 minutes every hour in SAn Antonio. Currently 12 degrees here. External hose bibs frozen solid....deep sink & washing machine water in the laundry room are no bueno. Gonna be a fun couple fo days....
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Re: Thank you coal!

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HI54UNI
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Re: Thank you coal!

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AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:01 pm
HI54UNI wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:54 am

I see there are rolling blackouts in Texas. Hope you're safe and warm Colonel.
Ours is out for 5 minutes every hour in SAn Antonio. Currently 12 degrees here. External hose bibs frozen solid....deep sink & washing machine water in the laundry room are no bueno. Gonna be a fun couple fo days....
Damn. That sucks.

Thanks Joe Biden!
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Re: Thank you coal!

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SDHornet wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:20 pm
:lol: :lol:

:ohno: :ohno:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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HI54UNI wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:54 am
Col Hogan wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:41 pm

There are predictions of possible intermittent power outages in Texas because of our large wind power farms, due to the polar vortex...just like in the upper mid-west...

https://energynews.us/2019/02/27/midwes ... st-debate/
I see there are rolling blackouts in Texas. Hope you're safe and warm Colonel.
I know a number of friends who have been hit by the blackouts, but so far we’re OK :thumb:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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SDHornet wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:20 pm
A little sneak peek into our future under the GND.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Col Hogan wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:12 pm
HI54UNI wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:54 am

I see there are rolling blackouts in Texas. Hope you're safe and warm Colonel.
I know a number of friends who have been hit by the blackouts, but so far we’re OK :thumb:
Up to 10 minutes every hour now. House temp has dropped 7 degrees in the last hour. Still haven’t gotten pipes unfroze. :ohno: :ohno:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Yay renewable energy...the savior of the world (especially the current generation of equipment)...

https://texasscorecard.com/state/wind-t ... sWyG2pZLAA
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Col Hogan wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:37 pm Yay renewable energy...the savior of the world (especially the current generation of equipment)...

https://texasscorecard.com/state/wind-t ... sWyG2pZLAA
Now we’re getting 10 minutes on, 10 off. Juuuuuuuust enough time for the DirecTV satellite to complete it’s reset, get about 90 seconds of the show I’m attempting to watch, and poof! Gone again.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Col Hogan wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:37 pm Yay renewable energy...the savior of the world (especially the current generation of equipment)...

https://texasscorecard.com/state/wind-t ... sWyG2pZLAA
All those turbines just sitting there using precious power to keep their systems from icing/freezing up.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Winterborn wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:53 pm
Col Hogan wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:37 pm Yay renewable energy...the savior of the world (especially the current generation of equipment)...

https://texasscorecard.com/state/wind-t ... sWyG2pZLAA
All those turbines just sitting there using precious power to keep their systems from icing/freezing up.
Only it didn’t work. They froze.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:18 pm
SDHornet wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:20 pm
A little sneak peek into our future under the GND.
No it is not. This is just poor planning from the energy providers specifying the wind turbines, and frankly I see this often in my industry with Southern clients: "Oh how many times will I really need freeze-protection, no need to pay the extra cost." Ok maybe makes sense for a tiny HVAC unit, not for primary energy infrastructure.

Plenty of states and nations, in much colder areas, have wind turbines that work in freezing temperatures (at least newer ones). And like all technology, it's only going to improve with time.

Texas' bigger issue here is that they have their own independent power grid with no connection to the national grid, all because they didn't want to follow federal standards. And for what it's worth, wind energy isn't the only thing failing: apparently some TX energy providers don't have heat tracing on their natural gas pipes which is another egregious decision (natural gas loses pressure as temperatures dip).
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Re: Thank you coal!

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We just had our first outage...just over an hour...

That was fun
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:49 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:18 pm

A little sneak peek into our future under the GND.
No it is not. This is just poor planning from the energy providers specifying the wind turbines, and frankly I see this often in my industry with Southern clients: "Oh how many times will I really need freeze-protection, no need to pay the extra cost." Ok maybe makes sense for a tiny HVAC unit, not for primary energy infrastructure.

Plenty of states and nations, in much colder areas, have wind turbines that work in freezing temperatures (at least newer ones). And like all technology, it's only going to improve with time.

Texas' bigger issue here is that they have their own independent power grid with no connection to the national grid, all because they didn't want to follow federal standards. And for what it's worth, wind energy isn't the only thing failing: apparently some TX energy providers don't have heat tracing on their natural gas pipes which is another egregious decision (natural gas loses pressure as temperatures dip).
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yes. GOVERNMENT officials made crappy decisions. Imagine that. Green energy....there only when you dont' need it.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:05 am
∞∞∞ wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:49 am

No it is not. This is just poor planning from the energy providers specifying the wind turbines, and frankly I see this often in my industry with Southern clients: "Oh how many times will I really need freeze-protection, no need to pay the extra cost." Ok maybe makes sense for a tiny HVAC unit, not for primary energy infrastructure.

Plenty of states and nations, in much colder areas, have wind turbines that work in freezing temperatures (at least newer ones). And like all technology, it's only going to improve with time.

Texas' bigger issue here is that they have their own independent power grid with no connection to the national grid, all because they didn't want to follow federal standards. And for what it's worth, wind energy isn't the only thing failing: apparently some TX energy providers don't have heat tracing on their natural gas pipes which is another egregious decision (natural gas loses pressure as temperatures dip).
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yes. GOVERNMENT officials made crappy decisions. Imagine that. Green energy....there only when you dont' need it.
The same government officials who rushed the closing of a coal-fired plant to advance their renewable percentage...damn the torpedos, full speed ahead...

I’m all for renewable...as soon as it can provide the same capacity as fossil fuels...

And that, we know, is not possible right now...thus, rolling blackouts created by government...

:ohno:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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There‘s only 1 way we are going to get mostly get rid of fossil fuels & be mostly renewables. Massively into NUCLEAR. The end.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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BDKJMU wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:45 am There‘s only 1 way we are going to get mostly get rid of fossil fuels & be mostly renewables. Massively into NUCLEAR. The end.
Hey buddy (and AZ):

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... power-woes
While ice has forced some turbines to shut down just as a brutal cold wave drives record electricity demand, that’s been the least significant factor in the blackouts, according to Dan Woodfin, a senior director for the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which operates the state’s power grid.

The main factors: Frozen instruments at natural gas, coal and even nuclear facilities, as well as limited supplies of natural gas, he said. “Natural gas pressure” in particular is one reason power is coming back slower than expected Tuesday, added Woodfin.

“We’ve had some issues with pretty much every kind of generating capacity in the course of this multi-day event,” he said.

If you poorly plan the infrastructure, it won't help no matter if it's nuclear, gas, wind, sun, or magic fairy dust. This is a case of Texas allowing private energy corporations to run with minor government oversight and here were the results: frozen pipes, frozen blades, frozen instruments, blackouts instead of rolling blackouts, and what seems like no prep for an event they knew was going to happen.

I get Texas isn't the north, but cold weather isn't unheard of down there either. And with climate change - something warned about for decades - unusual weather events are going to increase in frequency (we're already there).
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:49 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:18 pm

A little sneak peek into our future under the GND.
No it is not. This is just poor planning from the energy providers specifying the wind turbines, and frankly I see this often in my industry with Southern clients: "Oh how many times will I really need freeze-protection, no need to pay the extra cost." Ok maybe makes sense for a tiny HVAC unit, not for primary energy infrastructure.

Plenty of states and nations, in much colder areas, have wind turbines that work in freezing temperatures (at least newer ones). And like all technology, it's only going to improve with time.

Texas' bigger issue here is that they have their own independent power grid with no connection to the national grid, all because they didn't want to follow federal standards. And for what it's worth, wind energy isn't the only thing failing: apparently some TX energy providers don't have heat tracing on their natural gas pipes which is another egregious decision (natural gas loses pressure as temperatures dip).
I can see them in the distance operating in winter from my front porch.

But technology always goes from 0-60 in 2.3 seconds so I get the frustration.

Some of you need to go back and watch this a few times...

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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:34 am
BDKJMU wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:45 am There‘s only 1 way we are going to get mostly get rid of fossil fuels & be mostly renewables. Massively into NUCLEAR. The end.
Hey buddy (and AZ):

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... power-woes
While ice has forced some turbines to shut down just as a brutal cold wave drives record electricity demand, that’s been the least significant factor in the blackouts, according to Dan Woodfin, a senior director for the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which operates the state’s power grid.

The main factors: Frozen instruments at natural gas, coal and even nuclear facilities, as well as limited supplies of natural gas, he said. “Natural gas pressure” in particular is one reason power is coming back slower than expected Tuesday, added Woodfin.

“We’ve had some issues with pretty much every kind of generating capacity in the course of this multi-day event,” he said.

If you poorly plan the infrastructure, it won't help no matter if it's nuclear, gas, wind, sun, or magic fairy dust. This is a case of Texas allowing private energy corporations to run with minor government oversight and here were the results: frozen pipes, frozen blades, frozen instruments, blackouts instead of rolling blackouts, and what seems like no prep for an event they knew was going to happen.

I get Texas isn't the north, but cold weather isn't unheard of down there either. And with climate change - something warned about for decades - unusual weather events are going to increase in frequency (we're already there).
How can something that provides 23% of the grid power going offline NOT be “significant”?
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Before global warming was imagined, we would go a week with -20 for the high, and no talk of power outages. Something change over the years.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Gil Dobie wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:32 pm Before global warming was imagined, we would go a week with -20 for the high, and no talk of power outages. Something change over the years.
Aging infrastructure and decades-long tax cuts. Some states and localities decided to increasingly privatize utilities to offset the lack of incoming money, but the utilities business is a low-margin industry which makes cost-cutting a real issue.

The Feds also continue to bail out private companies because energy delivery is a matter of national security.

I can understand disagreements about what services government should and shouldn't provide, but I feel like utilities should be an open-and-shut case of a public service paid for through taxes.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:05 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:32 pm Before global warming was imagined, we would go a week with -20 for the high, and no talk of power outages. Something change over the years.
Aging infrastructure and decades-long tax cuts. Some states and localities decided to increasingly privatize utilities to offset the lack of incoming money, but the utilities business is a low-margin industry which makes cost-cutting a real issue.

The Feds also continue to bail out private companies because energy delivery is a matter of national security

I can understand disagreements about what services government should and shouldn't provide, but I feel like utilities should be an open-and-shut case of a public service paid for through taxes.
CA has experienced zero tax cuts wrt to energy and we have only had increases in issues with our power grid/generation. So yeah, not buying that it's a lack of tax revenue that's the problem. You're trying to put the blame on private companies (I'm sure they are not blameless in this) and you are assuming the gubmint actually knows how to properly reinvest its revenues, or spec equipment which is probably the most comical part of your "pro-green energy" rant.

And I'm not against green energy, but when it fails this spectacularly...well... :rofl:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:23 pm
How can something that provides 23% of the grid power going offline NOT be “significant”?
"Least significant."

The entire system failed spectacularly, including fossil fuels and nuclear. Again this is not a indictment of one energy source over another, but it's an indictment of the people who poorly planned the infrastructure.

However, I think this episode is making a better case for solar energy at the individual level. You still have to be smart about energy-use during an emergency (ex. setting a thermostat to 50 instead of 70), but I'm sure a bunch of people would love to have solar battery-banks right now. And of course during regular times, solar partially or fully produces a home's energy. It almost makes too much sense in a flat, sun-rich state like TX.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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How well do solar panels work with a few inches of snow on them?
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