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The Western nations are demanding Russia halt the alleged supply of arms to Ukrainian separatists and other actions that destabilize the situation in eastern Ukraine.

The show of Western solidarity comes as the U.S. accuses Russia of ramping up its troop presence on its border with Ukraine and shipping more heavy weaponry to the pro-Moscow rebels.

"It's precisely because we've not yet seen a strategic turn from (Russian President Vladimir) Putin that we believe it's absolutely essential to take additional measures, and that's what the Europeans and the United States intend to do this week," said Tony Blinken, Mr. Obama's deputy national security adviser.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-eu-sa ... h-ukraine/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YV2KQkBhWs[/youtube]

Putin won on the Syrian front and backed us down first, and now add to it that we decommissioned our Space Shuttle fleet with no eminent replacement, we have a $60B investment flying over our heads in the ISS, and are counting on the Russians to continue to allow us access it. We'll likely continue to get access, but the price is going up.

I thought SpaceX and other private concerns were going to be handling that?

ASUG8 wrote:

The Western nations are demanding Russia halt the alleged supply of arms to Ukrainian separatists and other actions that destabilize the situation in eastern Ukraine.

The show of Western solidarity comes as the U.S. accuses Russia of ramping up its troop presence on its border with Ukraine and shipping more heavy weaponry to the pro-Moscow rebels.

"It's precisely because we've not yet seen a strategic turn from (Russian President Vladimir) Putin that we believe it's absolutely essential to take additional measures, and that's what the Europeans and the United States intend to do this week," said Tony Blinken, Mr. Obama's deputy national security adviser.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-eu-sa ... h-ukraine/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YV2KQkBhWs[/youtube]

Putin won on the Syrian front and backed us down first, and now add to it that we decommissioned our Space Shuttle fleet with no eminent replacement, we have a $60B investment flying over our heads in the ISS, and are counting on the Russians to continue to allow us access it. We'll likely continue to get access, but the price is going up.

How appropriate! Obama has been "Blinken" at every foreign challenge since 2009.

Grizalltheway wrote:I thought SpaceX and other private concerns were going to be handling that?

Space X and Orbital Science aren't on track to transport people for some time. They have a new prototype, but NASA won't green light that for years.

Regarding the title of the thread...take Russia and the over.

Grizalltheway wrote:I thought SpaceX and other private concerns were going to be handling that?

Ignore.

Not sure you can say anyone won on Syria.


And it is amazing how many America Haters vote Republican.

Why is this Russia vs USA? Why is this our problem? Why was Syria our problem?

Obama is not getting us into any wars, and I am okay with that. If Ukraine is that big of a deal, let our European "allies" handle it. We can back them up if it makes the war hawks happy, but I don't think we should be leading here.

remember when bush looked into putin's soul and found him straight forward and trustworthy?

Skjellyfetti wrote:remember when bush looked into putin's soul and found him straight forward and trustworthy?

Can't help but wonder where Sarah is in all of this. I thought she was keeping an eye on him.

ASUG8 wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote:I thought SpaceX and other private concerns were going to be handling that?

Space X and Orbital Science aren't on track to transport people for some time. They have a new prototype, but NASA won't green light that for years.

A spat with the Russians which hampers getting astronauts into orbit will only speed up this timeline. Letting private companies compete for contracts for cargo and crewed launches are the definition of America. This problem will work itself out sooner (within the next decade) rather than later (within the next generation) and is the much better alternative to the continual funding of a bloated NASA.

SpaceX is already getting cargo into orbit at a much cheaper cost than its government subsidized competitors…and it hasn’t even completed development of its reusable Falcon Heavy launch system yet. Interesting times lay ahead.

BlueHen86 wrote:Why is this Russia vs USA? Why is this our problem? Why was Syria our problem?

Obama is not getting us into any wars, and I am okay with that. If Ukraine is that big of a deal, let our European "allies" handle it. We can back them up if it makes the war hawks happy, but I don't think we should be leading here.

Funny to see folks bitch about how USA shouldn't play Cap't Savahoe yet bitch about Obama not "doing enough". Can't have it both ways, and wanting USA to keep out of these issues means there will be other players stepping up (for better or worse) to fill the vacuum.

Skjellyfetti wrote:remember when bush looked into putin's soul and found him straight forward and trustworthy?

remember when Bush was proclaimed to be an expert on Russia by Democrats?

BlueHen86 wrote:Why is this Russia vs USA? Why is this our problem? Why was Syria our problem?

Obama is not getting us into any wars, and I am okay with that. If Ukraine is that big of a deal, let our European "allies" handle it. We can back them up if it makes the war hawks happy, but I don't think we should be leading here.

You'd just sit by and watch all those euro-pinkos push our snout out of the war profits trough?

CID1990 wrote:

Skjellyfetti wrote:remember when bush looked into putin's soul and found him straight forward and trustworthy?

remember when Bush was proclaimed to be an expert on Russia by Democrats?

Remember when Romney warned Obama about this and Obama sniped back with a cute little sound bite that made him look pompous and Romney turned out to be totally right.

Things we could do that doesn't get us involved militarily at all:

-Real economic sanctions on Russia.Looks like that might have been done today.
Obama joins EU in announcing expanded economic sanctions against Russia
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07 ... latestnews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-Much of Europe is heavily dependent on Russia for natural gas. We are the worlds #1 energy producer, and thanks to fracking, the king kong of natural gas. Speed up the approval of export licenses to export natural gas to Europe. Get Europe off of Russia's tit and onto ours. That would hurt Russia and benefit us.
http://whowhatwhy.com/2014/07/23/gaspip ... rgy-fight/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-Provide Ukraine with satellite intel on rebel troop positions and their Russian made equipment. And that's something that shouldn't be publicly announced. Heck, maybe it's already being done.

-Sell arms to Ukraine if they have the $$ to pay for anything worthwhile. Do they?. We sell arms to lots of countries. We make $$. That benefits us.

BDKJMU wrote:Things we could do that doesn't get us involved militarily at all:

-Real economic sanctions on Russia.Looks like that might have been done today.
Obama joins EU in announcing expanded economic sanctions against Russia
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07 ... latestnews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-Much of Europe is heavily dependent on Russia for natural gas. We are the worlds #1 energy producer, and thanks to fracking, the king kong of natural gas. Speed up the approval of export licenses to export natural gas to Europe. Get Europe off of Russia's tit and onto ours. That would hurt Russia and benefit us.
http://whowhatwhy.com/2014/07/23/gaspip ... rgy-fight/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-Provide Ukraine with satellite intel on rebel troop positions and their Russian made equipment. And that's something that shouldn't be publicly announced. Heck, maybe it's already being done.

-Sell arms to Ukraine if they have the $$ to pay for anything worthwhile. Do they?. We sell arms to lots of countries. We make $$. That benefits us.

Sell arms to both sides before the euros do. We make mo money.

ASUG8 wrote:

The Western nations are demanding Russia halt the alleged supply of arms to Ukrainian separatists and other actions that destabilize the situation in eastern Ukraine.

The show of Western solidarity comes as the U.S. accuses Russia of ramping up its troop presence on its border with Ukraine and shipping more heavy weaponry to the pro-Moscow rebels.

"It's precisely because we've not yet seen a strategic turn from (Russian President Vladimir) Putin that we believe it's absolutely essential to take additional measures, and that's what the Europeans and the United States intend to do this week," said Tony Blinken, Mr. Obama's deputy national security adviser.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-eu-sa ... h-ukraine/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YV2KQkBhWs[/youtube]

Putin won on the Syrian front and backed us down first, and now add to it that we decommissioned our Space Shuttle fleet with no eminent replacement, we have a $60B investment flying over our heads in the ISS, and are counting on the Russians to continue to allow us access it. We'll likely continue to get access, but the price is going up.

Backed us down?

Don't worry, there will be plenty of other wars.

BlueHen86 wrote:Why is this Russia vs USA? Why is this our problem? Why was Syria our problem?

Obama is not getting us into any wars, and I am okay with that. If Ukraine is that big of a deal, let our European "allies" handle it. We can back them up if it makes the war hawks happy, but I don't think we should be leading here.

I never said Syria was our problem, but then again I didn't draw any red lines.

I'm hardly a hawk and I'm on record that we don't need to be policing the world. To your point, the Ukraine crisis has a much larger potential impact on the Europeans from a natural gas perspective than for us plus any possible spillover into adjacent countries.

My point was simply that Obama's foreign policy has been so bad that he's made Bush look like a hero. Putin has run roughshod all over him in dealing with Syria and now Ukraine. I'd like to see diplomacy work to diffuse the situation, but I don't think (a) it's our issue, and (b) John Kerry is up to the task.

houndawg wrote:
Backed us down?

Don't worry, there will be plenty of other wars.

So I'm guessing you're conveniently forgetting the setting and subsequent crossing of some "red line" by our administration? Followed by Putin stepping in and brokering a chemical weapons intervention? Followed by crickets on our side?

ASUG8 wrote:

houndawg wrote:
Backed us down?

Don't worry, there will be plenty of other wars.

So I'm guessing you're conveniently forgetting the setting and subsequent crossing of some "red line" by our administration? Followed by Putin stepping in and brokering a chemical weapons intervention? Followed by crickets on our side?

So who should we bomb?

houndawg wrote:

ASUG8 wrote:
So I'm guessing you're conveniently forgetting the setting and subsequent crossing of some "red line" by our administration? Followed by Putin stepping in and brokering a chemical weapons intervention? Followed by crickets on our side?

So who should we bomb?

I didn't say we should - read the "I'm not hawkish" post above. The Middle East has been a hellhole for centuries, and our intervention in tribal and religious sectarian squabbles does nothing but embolden both sides to come after us. I didn't decide to set a "red line" and dare someone to cross it. Putin will beat this administration in poker all day long and twice on Sundays.

ASUG8 wrote:

houndawg wrote:
So who should we bomb?

I didn't say we should - read the "I'm not hawkish" post above. The Middle East has been a hellhole for centuries, and our intervention in tribal and religious sectarian squabbles does nothing but embolden both sides to come after us. I didn't decide to set a "red line" and dare someone to cross it. Putin will beat this administration in poker all day long and twice on Sundays.

That right there was one of the single most idiotic pieces of foreign policy over the last 20 years. You do not make ultimatums (especially with Russians or Chinese) unless you are prepared to make good on them. Period.

Much better to have not made any kind of ultimatum. Syria would be in the same shape it is in now, but I could be debated that Russia might not be quite as bold as they are being right now.

houndawg wrote:

ASUG8 wrote:
So I'm guessing you're conveniently forgetting the setting and subsequent crossing of some "red line" by our administration? Followed by Putin stepping in and brokering a chemical weapons intervention? Followed by crickets on our side?

So who should we bomb?

duh. The brown people.

ASUG8 wrote:

houndawg wrote:
So who should we bomb?

I didn't say we should - read the "I'm not hawkish" post above. The Middle East has been a hellhole for centuries, and our intervention in tribal and religious sectarian squabbles does nothing but embolden both sides to come after us. I didn't decide to set a "red line" and dare someone to cross it. Putin will beat this administration in poker all day long and twice on Sundays.

So you would rather be in Russia's position than ours?