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Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:23 am
by Skjellyfetti
Dennis Marx, the shooter who attempted to occupy a Forsyth County court house Friday, has been identified by law enforcement officials as a member of the Sovereign Citizens Movement.
Marx represents a still-small percentage of the anti-government organization that escalates from “paper terrorism” to acts of violence. The group, classified by the Federal Bureau of Investigation as a domestic terrorist organization, maintains the belief that they are not subject to municipal, state and federal systems of law, instead following only “common law.”
Members of this group consider the United States government illegitimate and do not believe in paying taxes, needing a valid driver’s license or even the government’s right to tell them which laws to follow, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center’s website.
The group has a long list of beliefs including that the government has enslaved its citizens by backing U.S. currency on the “full faith and credit” of the government instead of the gold standard. Also the organization is known for its belief in a secret second identity and monetary amount assigned to each citizen at birth known as a “straw man.”
The organization has a reputation for combating the government it doesn’t believe in through the use of overwhelming amounts of paperwork, largely fraudulent and amassing to thousands of pages, intended to clog the court systems, frequently resulting in financial damage.
For instance, Citizens don’t believe in a bank’s right to own property so they consider all foreclosed property up for grabs. Members use bogus paperwork to occupy government or bank owned property leading to numerous racketeering charges in the area and around the country.
But that isn’t always the end of it.
The group, which normally functions on a platform of inconveniencing the system has, as in cases like this morning been known to commit violent acts, primarily targeted at the law enforcement officials they claim have no authority when they are feeling desperate.
The SPLC reported seven law enforcement officers have been killed by Citizen extremists since 2000, with additional people injured.
Sovereign Citizens membership is believed to be sharply on the rise – as of 2011 an estimated 100,000 fully engrossed members and an additional 200,000 coming into the fold according to the SPLC .
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-n ... r-t/ngF3X/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:23 am
by CitadelGrad
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:35 am
by kalm
Sounds like the Constitution Party knuckleheads up in these parts. Armed to the teeth and disobedient toward LE...douchebags.
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:40 am
by travelinman67
So...if the government repeatedly, unaccountably ignores and subverts the foundational constitutional documents, imprisoning otherwise protected citizens for political dissent, continually violating constitutional protections against privacy, search and seizure, all for the purpose of empowering an admitted totalitarian executive branch...then those who violently resist become "terrorists"?
I guess all the "civil disobedience" activists of the 60's and 70's were terrorists...
...including the.Clintons, SOS Kerry, Cass Sunstein, George Soros, Jerry Brown, Al Sharpton...
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:55 am
by kalm
travelinman67 wrote:So...if the government repeatedly, unaccountably ignores and subverts the foundational constitutional documents, imprisoning otherwise protected citizens for political dissent, continually violating constitutional protections against privacy, search and seizure, all for the purpose of empowering an admitted totalitarian executive branch...then those who violently resist become "terrorists"?
I guess all the "civil disobedience" activists of the 60's and 70's were terrorists...
...including the.Clintons, SOS Kerry, Cass Sunstein, George Soros, Jerry Brown, Al Sharpton...
Yeah, these folks are regular Ghandis I tell ya.
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:59 am
by GrizFanStuckInUtah
kalm wrote:travelinman67 wrote:So...if the government repeatedly, unaccountably ignores and subverts the foundational constitutional documents, imprisoning otherwise protected citizens for political dissent, continually violating constitutional protections against privacy, search and seizure, all for the purpose of empowering an admitted totalitarian executive branch...then those who violently resist become "terrorists"?
I guess all the "civil disobedience" activists of the 60's and 70's were terrorists...
...including the.Clintons, SOS Kerry, Cass Sunstein, George Soros, Jerry Brown, Al Sharpton...
Yeah, these folks are regular
Ghandis I tell ya.
That is not the word I use for them for a regular basis.
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:06 am
by Pwns
How will I sleep knowing this group is active in Georgia?
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:03 pm
by ALPHAGRIZ1
kalm wrote:Sounds like the Constitution Party knuckleheads up in these parts. Armed to the teeth and disobedient toward LE...douchebags.
I can hope it gets worse.
This country is going to be taken back and I am pretty sure the left is gonna find out how the Indians felt a few years back.
It's coming
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:05 pm
by kalm
ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:kalm wrote:Sounds like the Constitution Party knuckleheads up in these parts. Armed to the teeth and disobedient toward LE...douchebags.
I can hope it gets worse.
This country is going to be taken back and I am pretty sure the left is gonna find out how the Indians felt a few years back.
It's coming
Why?
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:08 pm
by ALPHAGRIZ1
Why what?
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:38 pm
by kalm
ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:Why what?
The left gonna feel like the Indians did?
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:43 pm
by CID1990
this is a by product of ever encroaching, as well as unresponsive government
we can label these people (and they ARE nuts) all we want but their numbers are only going to increase
and since there is no such thing as centralized government rolling back its powers i really dont see much of a solution here. plus demonizing these people is only going to encourage them
i didnt see anything about them being a "hate" group- interesting that the splc is keeping tabs on them. i guess if they are classified as right wing then it is assumed they dont like the black folk
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:05 pm
by Skjellyfetti
CID1990 wrote:
we can label these people (and they ARE nuts) all we want but their numbers are only going to increase
They'll only increase until a Republican is in the White House.
skjellyfetti chart of the day
CID1990 wrote:i didnt see anything about them being a "hate" group- interesting that the splc is keeping tabs on them. i guess if they are classified as right wing then it is assumed they dont like the black folk
SPLC doesn't just track "hate groups" or "folks that don't like black people"
They also track left-wing groups like eco-terrorists, black separatist groups, etc. etc.
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:28 pm
by Chizzang
I don't really mind these terrorists any more than any others...
As was already stated on this forum - and many times over the years - We called the Taliban freedom fighters 30 years ago and now we are at WAR with them (Whatever that means today)
I don't look at these guys any differently than I do Greenpeace or Save the Whales... or whatever
Same Same
I find people who are willing to die over weird stuff to be pretty damn entertaining actually
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:41 pm
by Skjellyfetti
Do y'all support (or not have a problem with in Cleets's case) this guy because he wasn't that successful at his attempt to shoot up and bomb a federal courthouse?
Do y'all also support (or not have a problem with) more successful examples like Timothy McVeigh?
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:53 pm
by CID1990
Skjellyfetti wrote:CID1990 wrote:
we can label these people (and they ARE nuts) all we want but their numbers are only going to increase
They'll only increase until a Republican is in the White House.
skjellyfetti chart of the day
CID1990 wrote:i didnt see anything about them being a "hate" group- interesting that the splc is keeping tabs on them. i guess if they are classified as right wing then it is assumed they dont like the black folk
SPLC doesn't just track "hate groups" or "folks that don't like black people"
They also track left-wing groups like eco-terrorists, black separatist groups, etc. etc.
thanks for the correction SK, but you know exactly what i mean
white hate groups are the bailiwick of the splc- everything else is window dressing -
also- these guys are not your white supremacists like McVeigh- they are libertarians taken to absurd extremes- there are some in charleston and i have had to deal with a few of them when i was on the pd. trust me they hate republicans equally as they do democrats
all in all im with chitz on this one. im not very concerned about these guys or the lefty groups or anyone else for that matter
if they come too close to
me for comfort i know how to deal with it
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:04 pm
by Ibanez
travelinman67 wrote:So...if the government repeatedly, unaccountably ignores and subverts the foundational constitutional documents, imprisoning otherwise protected citizens for political dissent, continually violating constitutional protections against privacy, search and seizure, all for the purpose of empowering an admitted totalitarian executive branch...then those who violently resist become "terrorists"?
I guess all the "civil disobedience" activists of the 60's and 70's were terrorists...
...including the.Clintons, SOS Kerry, Cass Sunstein, George Soros, Jerry Brown, Al Sharpton...
Violent Protest is not a constitutional right.
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:19 pm
by Skjellyfetti
CID1990 wrote:
also- these guys are not your white supremacists like McVeigh- they are libertarians taken to absurd extremes- there are some in charleston and i have had to deal with a few of them when i was on the pd. trust me they hate republicans equally as they do democrats
perhaps i'm wrong - but, i always thought of mcveigh exactly how you describe he was not: a libertarian taken to absurd extremes.
i have little doubt he was a racist... but, i've never heard much about racism being the primary motivation for the ok city bombing. if it was... he sure chose a shitty target for blowing up black people.
edit:
"Why I bombed the Murrah building" by Timothy McVeigh
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/m ... cveigh.usa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
anti-government. no mention of race.
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:50 pm
by Chizzang
CID1990 wrote:
also- these guys are not your white supremacists like McVeigh- they are libertarians taken to absurd extremes- there are some in charleston and i have had to deal with a few of them when i was on the pd. trust me they hate republicans equally as they do democrats
all in all im with chitz on this one. im not very concerned about these guys or the lefty groups or anyone else for that matter
We've got some extreme environmental groups out here...
They are sincere and very specific - its no occupy nonsense - they are well informed and completely insane
quite a few of them (I'm sure) would die for their pet causes
They are not particularly dangerous however and neither are the Right Wing nut groups that function similarly in their private realms of insanity
I've discovered over the years if you take the time to actually understand what the extreme fringe is pissy about you'll likely learn something in the process and discover you're not as crazy as you might have previously believed... (all things relative in comparison)
Fear stems from ignorance - and - once you delve into their rage you see its nothing to fear...
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:24 pm
by FCS PATRIOTS
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:16 pm
by JohnStOnge
I think the terms "terrorist" and "terrorism" are used too loosely. Terrorism is a tactic. You do something to make people in general afraid in order to disrupt things. Most of the time, probably, it will involve soft targets. So like for instance when Palestinian suicide bombers were boarding passenger busses in Israel and blowing themselves up that was using terror as a tactic.
I don't know if that's what's being described with these people. The fact that someone is resisting government and willing to get into armed conflicts with agents of the State does not necessarily mean they're using terror as a tactic.
Say like if you have some group that wants to engage in revolution to overthrow the government. Say they start doing things like attacking police stations, blowing up government buildings, etc. Their objective may not be to inspire terror at all. Doesn't have to be terrorism.
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:29 pm
by Chizzang
John Stwrong and Eric Rudolph:
Are the only two people I've ever heard seriously use the phrase "Homosexual Agenda" in a sentence...
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:45 pm
by JohnStOnge
John Stwrong and Eric Rudolph:
Are the only two people I've ever heard seriously use the phrase "Homosexual Agenda" in a sentence…
Oh I know you know better than that. I just Googled "homosexual agenda" and got 1.7 million hits. It's not an uncommon concept. BTW an "agenda" does not have to include specific steps; though I could show you a manifesto that does out line the specific steps for reaching the goal of normalizing homosexuality. It can be "an underlying often ideological plan or program." If you don't realize that's been in place with respect to reaching the goal of having the society think of homosexuality as "normal" and to think of homosexual relationships as "equivalent" to heterosexual relationships you haven't been paying attention or you're being intentionally obtuse.
If you agree with it you agree with it. But it's ridiculous to say it doesn't exist. It clearly does.
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:06 pm
by JohnStOnge
What the heck here is the document I referenced that outlines the strategy with specific steps for accomplishing the homosexual agenda:
http://library.gayhomeland.org/0018/EN/ ... raight.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It was published in 1987. Note that I didn't link a site maintained by some conservative group. I linked a site that advocates for the perceived interests of homosexuals. The document is very well known and if you read it you can see that the strategy has been applied and is being applied.
If you don't think that key people involved in the movement to "normalize" homosexuality are familiar with the linked document and the concepts in it you're kidding yourself. It's clear that the playbook's been followed.
Re: Another right wing terrorist:
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:14 pm
by Chizzang
Oh John... it is NOT difficult to get you all spun up is it
