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So by now I'm sure we all know the basics of the story...

Whistleblowers say there were efforts to cover up the deaths of up to 40 veterans while they were awaiting appointments at the department's giant medical center in Phoenix.

And today we get the news that:

The top official for veterans health care has resigned amid a firestorm over long appointment waits, treatment delays and falsified records at VA hospitals.

Veterans Secretary Eric Shinseki says he has accepted the resignation of Robert Petzel, undersecretary for health care at the VA. It comes the day after both men were grilled by the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Fox News has characterized this as another "scandal", but I have two questions:

1) (Rhetorical): Did everyone in the V.A. just decide to stop doing their job when Obama was elected? Or is this something that's been going on for quite some time...
2) If this doesn't scare the shit out of "government controlled healthcare" for the Obamacare enthusiasts and supporters, you're beyond hope.

AZGrizFan wrote:So by now I'm sure we all know the basics of the story...

Whistleblowers say there were efforts to cover up the deaths of up to 40 veterans while they were awaiting appointments at the department's giant medical center in Phoenix.

And today we get the news that:

The top official for veterans health care has resigned amid a firestorm over long appointment waits, treatment delays and falsified records at VA hospitals.

Veterans Secretary Eric Shinseki says he has accepted the resignation of Robert Petzel, undersecretary for health care at the VA. It comes the day after both men were grilled by the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Fox News has characterized this as another "scandal", but I have two questions:

1) (Rhetorical): Did everyone in the V.A. just decide to stop doing their job when Obama was elected? Or is this something that's been going on for quite some time...
2) If this doesn't scare the shit out of "government controlled healthcare" for the Obamacare enthusiasts and supporters, you're beyond hope.

That has been one of the many bleats from the single payer advocates for years now.

(Paraphrasing)
"If its good enough for the military."
"The military has been single payer forever and it's working just fine."



Now we'll have kalm, and of course AARPdawg drop in and try to deflect....

Baldy wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:So by now I'm sure we all know the basics of the story...



And today we get the news that:



Fox News has characterized this as another "scandal", but I have two questions:

1) (Rhetorical): Did everyone in the V.A. just decide to stop doing their job when Obama was elected? Or is this something that's been going on for quite some time...
2) If this doesn't scare the shit out of "government controlled healthcare" for the Obamacare enthusiasts and supporters, you're beyond hope.

That has been one of the many bleats from the single payer advocates for years now.

(Paraphrasing)
"If its good enough for the military."
"The military has been single payer forever and it's working just fine."



Now we'll have kalm, and of course AARPdawg drop in and try to deflect....

Its too bad we didn't pass all that Republican legislation to fix healthcare when we had the chance...

And yet while thousands of veterans can't get timely attention from the VA, the Pentagon is expediting Bradley Manning's gender reassignment treatments and surgery.

Fuck the government.

CitadelGrad wrote:And yet while thousands of veterans can't get timely attention from the VA, the Pentagon is expediting Bradley Manning's gender reassignment treatments and surgery.

Fuck the government.

As ^ we can see clearly "The Government" doesn't give a flying f_ck about washed up veterans waiting to die in some VA hospital... and "The Government" never will

More reasons to gleefully join the Military..!!! (The governments garbage bin for human lives)

AZGrizFan wrote:So by now I'm sure we all know the basics of the story...

Whistleblowers say there were efforts to cover up the deaths of up to 40 veterans while they were awaiting appointments at the department's giant medical center in Phoenix.

And today we get the news that:

The top official for veterans health care has resigned amid a firestorm over long appointment waits, treatment delays and falsified records at VA hospitals.

Veterans Secretary Eric Shinseki says he has accepted the resignation of Robert Petzel, undersecretary for health care at the VA. It comes the day after both men were grilled by the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Fox News has characterized this as another "scandal", but I have two questions:

1) (Rhetorical): Did everyone in the V.A. just decide to stop doing their job when Obama was elected? Or is this something that's been going on for quite some time...
2) If this doesn't scare the shit out of "government controlled healthcare" for the Obamacare enthusiasts and supporters, you're beyond hope.

I haven't read too much on this. Is this isolated or are other instances coming to light?

Chizzang wrote:

Baldy wrote: That has been one of the many bleats from the single payer advocates for years now.

(Paraphrasing)
"If its good enough for the military."
"The military has been single payer forever and it's working just fine."



Now we'll have kalm, and of course AARPdawg drop in and try to deflect....

Its too bad we didn't pass all that Republican legislation to fix healthcare when we had the chance...

Yeah, like tort reform and allowing purchasing of insurance across state lines. But since they were Republican solutions, they were not considered...

BDKJMU wrote:

Chizzang wrote:

Its too bad we didn't pass all that Republican legislation to fix healthcare when we had the chance...

Yeah, like tort reform and allowing purchasing of insurance across state lines. But since they were Republican solutions, they were not considered...

Dude, that post was an inside joke between Baldy and myself - no worries
When the next Republican takes the office of the presidency I'm completely confident they will fix the healthcare issues facing America

Chizzang wrote:

Baldy wrote: That has been one of the many bleats from the single payer advocates for years now.

(Paraphrasing)
"If its good enough for the military."
"The military has been single payer forever and it's working just fine."



Now we'll have kalm, and of course AARPdawg drop in and try to deflect....

Its too bad we didn't pass all that Republican legislation to fix healthcare when we had the chance...

Indeed, but this was the VA. Two entirely different systems.

Even with all the problems the old system had, chances are the vets who died would probably wouldn't have if they were being seen by physicians who aren't on the gubbermint payroll.

CitadelGrad wrote:And yet while thousands of veterans can't get timely attention from the VA, the Pentagon is expediting Bradley Manning's gender reassignment treatments and surgery.

**** the government.

and spending 100 million plus per plane on a fighter that can't fly half the time...

All I can say is that I used to have the VAs in the 5 PAC NW States as clients at my old job and used to hate visiting them because it was so depressing. Was really disappointing to see a Vet sit in a lobby for hours just to see a provider. I never thought they were being mistreated, just had hoped they would have had better service as payment for their sacrafice.

houndawg wrote:

CitadelGrad wrote:And yet while thousands of veterans can't get timely attention from the VA, the Pentagon is expediting Bradley Manning's gender reassignment treatments and surgery.

**** the government.

and spending 100 million plus per plane on a fighter that can't fly half the time...

Hell it's not that it can't fly... shit if we paid the promised amount of $130 million each and they didn't fly well f_ck, no problem! We all win! It's that they cost $675 million and still don't fly

That's good business if you can get it my friend

SeattleGriz wrote:All I can say is that I used to have the VAs in the 5 PAC NW States as clients at my old job and used to hate visiting them because it was so depressing. Was really disappointing to see a Vet sit in a lobby for hours just to see a provider. I never thought they were being mistreated, just had hoped they would have had better service as payment for their sacrafice.

That ain't the way it works.

Chizzang wrote:

houndawg wrote:
and spending 100 million plus per plane on a fighter that can't fly half the time...

Hell it's not that it can't fly... **** if we paid the promised amount of $130 million each and they didn't fly well f_ck, no problem! We all win! It's that they cost $675 million and still don't fly

That's good business if you can get it my friend

At that price they will never see combat - too expensive to lose. Kind like how the mere threat of SAMS kept the Apaches on the ground in Kosovo.

houndawg wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
Hell it's not that it can't fly... **** if we paid the promised amount of $130 million each and they didn't fly well f_ck, no problem! We all win! It's that they cost $675 million and still don't fly

That's good business if you can get it my friend

At that price they will never see combat - too expensive to lose. Kind like how the mere threat of SAMS kept the Apaches on the ground in Kosovo.

Meh... that dollar number is a best calculation based on all of the cost over runs and service issues etc. etc. the Pentagon would deny that number to their last dying breath - no matter how accurate it is

Because that's what they do... Like all social programs the Pentagon is no different
It's seeks to sustain itself as well as muddy and mire the waters of clarity

Transparency is the devil to all acts of politics

houndawg wrote:

SeattleGriz wrote:All I can say is that I used to have the VAs in the 5 PAC NW States as clients at my old job and used to hate visiting them because it was so depressing. Was really disappointing to see a Vet sit in a lobby for hours just to see a provider. I never thought they were being mistreated, just had hoped they would have had better service as payment for their sacrafice.

That ain't the way it works.

I know. If the VA was my current provider, I would find a new one, and this is before what is happening now.

AZGrizFan wrote:So by now I'm sure we all know the basics of the story...

Whistleblowers say there were efforts to cover up the deaths of up to 40 veterans while they were awaiting appointments at the department's giant medical center in Phoenix.

And today we get the news that:

The top official for veterans health care has resigned amid a firestorm over long appointment waits, treatment delays and falsified records at VA hospitals.

Veterans Secretary Eric Shinseki says he has accepted the resignation of Robert Petzel, undersecretary for health care at the VA. It comes the day after both men were grilled by the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Fox News has characterized this as another "scandal", but I have two questions:

1) (Rhetorical): Did everyone in the V.A. just decide to stop doing their job when Obama was elected? Or is this something that's been going on for quite some time...
2) If this doesn't scare the shit out of "government controlled healthcare" for the Obamacare enthusiasts and supporters, you're beyond hope.

Only because a donk is Prez., if a conk were Prez it would be MSNBC calling it a scandal.

Remember last yr when the IRS announced the "firing" of the acting IRS commissioner due to the illegal targeting of conservative groups, but come to find out he was retiring anyway?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/resignat ... d=19193192" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, deja vu:

"....“Today, I accepted the resignation of Dr. Robert Petzel, Under Secretary for Health in the Department of Veterans Affairs," Shinseki said in a statement. "As we know from the veteran community, most veterans are satisfied with the quality of their VA health care, but we must do more to improve timely access to that care. I am committed to strengthening veterans' trust and confidence in their VA healthcare system.""

Ooops!

"..the VA announced in September that Petzel would retire in 2014. And the White House announced May 1 that it intended to nominate Jeffrey Murawsky, director of the VA's Illinois-based Great Lakes Health Care System, as his replacement......"
http://washingtonexaminer.com/veterans- ... le/2548546" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

White House modus operandi whenver dealing with scandal (which is quite often): find the highest ranking official who has already announced his retirement, and say he is fired..

Chizzang wrote:

Baldy wrote: That has been one of the many bleats from the single payer advocates for years now.

(Paraphrasing)
"If its good enough for the military."
"The military has been single payer forever and it's working just fine."



Now we'll have kalm, and of course AARPdawg drop in and try to deflect....

Its too bad we didn't pass all that Republican legislation to fix healthcare when we had the chance...

Would Harry Reid have put any of them before the Senate? Doubtful but they should have passed some anyway.

BlueHen86 wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:So by now I'm sure we all know the basics of the story...



And today we get the news that:



Fox News has characterized this as another "scandal", but I have two questions:

1) (Rhetorical): Did everyone in the V.A. just decide to stop doing their job when Obama was elected? Or is this something that's been going on for quite some time...
2) If this doesn't scare the shit out of "government controlled healthcare" for the Obamacare enthusiasts and supporters, you're beyond hope.

Only because a donk is Prez., if a conk were Prez it would be MSNBC calling it a scandal.

No doubt.

Senator Obama in 2007: “After seven years of an Administration that has stretched our military to the breaking point, ignored deplorable conditions at some VA hospitals, and neglected the planning and preparation necessary to care for our returning heroes, America’s veterans deserve a President who will fight for them not just when it’s easy or convenient, but every hour of every day for the next four years.”

Obama 2012: “For the first time ever, we’ve made military families and veterans a top priority not just at DOD, not just at the VA, but across the government.”

This was AFTER the time for VA to process a claim for disability compensation went from about 4 months in 2009 to 9 months in 2012.
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign- ... m-geraghty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why in the world would he make that above statement? Is Obama that f'ing oblivious? Does he think somehow people won't find out things have gotten worse at the VA under his watch? He's like Baghdad Bob..

BDKJMU wrote:Senator Obama in 2007: “After seven years of an Administration that has stretched our military to the breaking point, ignored deplorable conditions at some VA hospitals, and neglected the planning and preparation necessary to care for our returning heroes, America’s veterans deserve a President who will fight for them not just when it’s easy or convenient, but every hour of every day for the next four years.”

Obama 2012: “For the first time ever, we’ve made military families and veterans a top priority not just at DOD, not just at the VA, but across the government.”

This was AFTER the time for VA to process a claim for disability compensation went from about 4 months in 2009 to 9 months in 2012.
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign- ... m-geraghty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why in the world would he make that above statement? Is Obama that f'ing oblivious? Does he think somehow people won't find out things have gotten worse at the VA under his watch? He's like Baghdad Bob..

I'll assume that's a rhetorical question.

Obama.

CHANGE!

Baldy wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:So by now I'm sure we all know the basics of the story...



And today we get the news that:



Fox News has characterized this as another "scandal", but I have two questions:

1) (Rhetorical): Did everyone in the V.A. just decide to stop doing their job when Obama was elected? Or is this something that's been going on for quite some time...
2) If this doesn't scare the shit out of "government controlled healthcare" for the Obamacare enthusiasts and supporters, you're beyond hope.

That has been one of the many bleats from the single payer advocates for years now.

(Paraphrasing)
"If its good enough for the military."
"The military has been single payer forever and it's working just fine."



Now we'll have kalm, and of course AARPdawg drop in and try to deflect....

...."system for veterans is by all accounts one of the best-performing and most cost-effective elements in the American medical establishment......"
-Nicholas Kristoff 2009
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/03/opini ... istof.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"...What Mr. Romney and everyone else should know is that the V.H.A. is a huge policy success story, which offers important lessons for future health reform.....
......The most efficient health care systems are integrated systems like the V.H.A..."
-Paul Krugman, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/opini ... .html?_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And other examples of stupid fooking liberals praising the inept VA here:
http://www.truthrevolt.org/commentary/s ... -back-bite" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;