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It's been agonizing watching a close college friend become ingrained into Baptism these last few months, to the point that he quit a fantastic engineering position this week to do two years of missionary work in Africa. And of course all his Baptist "friends," most of which have accomplished very little in life (spreading the word of God doesn't count), are rallying around his decision - and were in fact a large part of swaying him into that decision. I'll support him, but it's funny how his well-educated, professional friends said it was a bad idea, and all his Church friends (most of which have no degrees and work retail/restaurant jobs, or for the Church itself) said that it was his "calling."

Ultimately to each their own, but this one really hurts.

/rant.

Meh. He is old enough to decide what will make him happy. If after a month or two he decides to bail and come back to continue his career, he is young enough to rekindle a strong career.
He may find the experience very rewarding and very educational.

Can he not come back to his job? What is more sacrificial than putting others before your needs? I applaud his choice. As a side note, I get what you are saying and hope a future employer views his sacrifice as exactly that and he gets rewarded.

Life's not a dress rehearsal. Find a job that doesn't suck.

And no offense, but you come off as a bit self-righteous. Just because you feel like religion is a waste of time doesn't mean anyone who makes a career out of it is wasting their life.

SeattleGriz wrote:Can he not come back to his job? What is more sacrificial than putting others before your needs? I applaud his choice. As a side note, I get what you are saying and hope a future employer views his sacrifice as exactly that and he gets rewarded.

He quit his job.

Also, I don't consider missionary work as sacrificial. We'll teach you English...while you read the Bible. We'll give you food and medical supplies...while you listen to our sermons. It's classic exploitation of the poor and uneducated. The Peace Corp, UNICEF, American Red Cross, or WFP...these are organizations that I admire and respect...helping for the sake of helping.

Pwns wrote:And no offense, but you come off as a bit self-righteous. Just because you feel like religion is a waste of time doesn't mean anyone who makes a career out of it is wasting their life.

No offense taken; I do think they're wasting their life. I'm sure many people think what I do is a waste and that's fine too. We're human; judging each other is what we do.

Agreed, putting others before you is always a good thing.

One would have to wonder just how "educated" these professional friends are. If they cannot understand this guy is better than they are and way less selfish, maybe they need to go back to school.

∞∞∞ wrote:

SeattleGriz wrote:Can he not come back to his job? What is more sacrificial than putting others before your needs? I applaud his choice. As a side note, I get what you are saying and hope a future employer views his sacrifice as exactly that and he gets rewarded.

He quit his job.

Also, I don't consider missionary work as sacrificial. We'll teach you English...while you read the Bible. We'll give you food and medical supplies...while you listen to our sermons. It's classic exploitation of the poor and uneducated. The Peace Corp, UNICEF, American Red Cross, or WFP...these are organizations that I admire and respect...helping for the sake of helping.

Pwns wrote:And no offense, but you come off as a bit self-righteous. Just because you feel like religion is a waste of time doesn't mean anyone who makes a career out of it is wasting their life.

No offense taken; I do think they're wasting their life. I'm sure many people think what I do is a waste and that's fine too. We're human; judging each other is what we do.

To your bashing of Christianity, who else is stepping up to help these people? Where are the atheists? Any of them quit their job to help?

Food for thought.

Why drag that fraud D1B into this?

Ivytalk wrote:Why drag that fraud D1B into this?

Because he will task others to prove something random and obfuscate the thread.

SeattleGriz wrote:To your bashing of Christianity, who else is stepping up to help these people? Where are the atheists? Any of them quit their job to help?

Food for thought.

What do atheists have to do with this? There are a ton of secular organizations that help the poor (some listed above). And they're made up of all walks of life...from young to old, Americans to Chinese, Christians to atheists. And these people generally help with no alternative motive. That is admirable.

Ivytalk wrote:Why drag that fraud D1B into this?

You're correct, but not because he's a fraud. It's unfair (and wrong) that I included his name in this.

Title changed.

∞∞∞ wrote:

SeattleGriz wrote:To your bashing of Christianity, who else is stepping up to help these people? Where are the atheists? Any of them quit their job to help?

Food for thought.

What do atheists have to do with this? There are a ton of secular organizations that help the poor (some listed above). And they're made up of all walks of life...from young to old, Americans to Chinese, Christians to atheists. And these people generally help with no alternative motive. That is admirable.

You bashed your friend because he was a Christian. My question to you, was how many atheists do you know who quit their job to help others.

Not trying to be a dick here, just trying to point out that Christianity requires sacrifice that few acknowledge. You even admitted that yourself.

∞∞∞ wrote:

Pwns wrote:And no offense, but you come off as a bit self-righteous. Just because you feel like religion is a waste of time doesn't mean anyone who makes a career out of it is wasting their life.

No offense taken; I do think they're wasting their life. I'm sure many people think what I do is a waste and that's fine too. We're human; judging each other is what we do.

Good point.

I wouldn't judge anyone going over there to preach the gospel or to do humanitarian work, but if you have someone going over there to talk about the evils of contraception and homosexuality, I would have a problem with that.

I would guess, though, that with this guy's education he isn't some hardcore fundy.

∞∞∞ wrote:

SeattleGriz wrote:To your bashing of Christianity, who else is stepping up to help these people? Where are the atheists? Any of them quit their job to help?

Food for thought.

What do atheists have to do with this? There are a ton of secular organizations that help the poor (some listed above). And they're made up of all walks of life...from young to old, Americans to Chinese, Christians to atheists. And these people generally help with no alternative motive. That is admirable.

Why do they?

They don't.

Neither do Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Taoists, Muslims, etc...

No one HAS to help anyone....ever...in any way, for any reason, at any time.

However, there are people/religions/organizations that do.

I guess you'd be happier if your friend was offered the chance to go help someone - even if it meant "preaching Christianity" - and he replied with "Nah...fuck those assholes. I have my degree and a job. Fuck those asshats for not having it this good. I don't give a fuck about them"


I'm as "down" on organized religion as a number of people but holy fuck do you sound like a douche right now. Some offense meant in that to make you realize that.

SeattleGriz wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote: What do atheists have to do with this? There are a ton of secular organizations that help the poor (some listed above). And they're made up of all walks of life...from young to old, Americans to Chinese, Christians to atheists. And these people generally help with no alternative motive. That is admirable.

You bashed your friend because he was a Christian. My question to you, was how many atheists do you know who quit their job to help others.

Not trying to be a dick here, just trying to point out that Christianity requires sacrifice that few acknowledge. You even admitted that yourself.

First of all, you're not being a dick.

Second, I'm bashing his decision because it was heavily influenced by other people. Something as personal as spreading the word of God shouldn't be pressured into by others (although I disagree with it, I actually don't mind people spreading the word). But he ultimately made the final decision and like the rest of us, he'll have to face the consequences - for better or worse.

And finally, I only know two other atheist and neither has joined a humanitarian program. But I'm sure you know that two people isn't exactly a solid statistic to base assumptions off of.

edit: It's fine Clenzy. I don't mind.

∞∞∞ wrote:

SeattleGriz wrote:
You bashed your friend because he was a Christian. My question to you, was how many atheists do you know who quit their job to help others.

Not trying to be a dick here, just trying to point out that Christianity requires sacrifice that few acknowledge. You even admitted that yourself.

First of all, you're not being a dick.

Second, I'm bashing his decision because it was heavily influenced by other people. Something as personal as spreading the word of God shouldn't be pressured into by others (although I disagree with it, I actually don't mind people spreading the word). But ultimately it's his decision and like all of us, he'll have to face the consequences - for better or worse.

And finally, I only know two other atheist and neither has joined a humanitarian program. But I'm sure you know that two people isn't exactly a solid statistic to base assumptions off of.

Were good dude. Thank you for your candor.

∞∞∞ wrote:

SeattleGriz wrote:
You bashed your friend because he was a Christian. My question to you, was how many atheists do you know who quit their job to help others.

Not trying to be a dick here, just trying to point out that Christianity requires sacrifice that few acknowledge. You even admitted that yourself.

First of all, you're not being a dick.

Second, I'm bashing his decision because it was heavily influenced by other people. Something as personal as spreading the word of God shouldn't be pressured into by others (although I disagree with it, I actually don't mind people spreading the word). But he ultimately made the final decision and like the rest of us, he'll have to face the consequences - for better or worse.

And finally, I only know two other atheist and neither has joined a humanitarian program. But I'm sure you know that two people isn't exactly a solid statistic to base assumptions off of.

edit: It's fine Clenzy. I don't mind.

So he made his decision based on the influence of others who think like he does.

Unless he is going to shove complete extreme fundy beliefs I don't see the harm it's doing ANYONE. You aren't hurt, he isn't hurt, the people who he is giving food/water/clothes/shelter to sure as hell aren't hurt.

I grew up in a baptist church and went on multiple mission trips to Mexico and Canada - though only for a couple weeks at a time - largely based on the fact my friends were going and I wanted to travel. That doesn't change the extremely positive influence my time in those countries had on the communities I was working with

The world needs more people willing to quit their comfy lives to help others.

I get that you don't like it because it is "Christian" though what harm is it really doing?

clenz wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote: First of all, you're not being a dick.

Second, I'm bashing his decision because it was heavily influenced by other people. Something as personal as spreading the word of God shouldn't be pressured into by others (although I disagree with it, I actually don't mind people spreading the word). But he ultimately made the final decision and like the rest of us, he'll have to face the consequences - for better or worse.

And finally, I only know two other atheist and neither has joined a humanitarian program. But I'm sure you know that two people isn't exactly a solid statistic to base assumptions off of.

edit: It's fine Clenzy. I don't mind.

So he made his decision based on the influence of others who think like he does.

Unless he is going to shove complete extreme fundy beliefs I don't see the harm it's doing ANYONE. You aren't hurt, he isn't hurt, the people who he is giving food/water/clothes/shelter to sure as hell aren't hurt.

I grew up in a baptist church and went on multiple mission trips to Mexico and Canada - though only for a couple weeks at a time - largely based on the fact my friends were going and I wanted to travel. That doesn't change the extremely positive influence my time in those countries had on the communities I was working with

The world needs more people willing to quit their comfy lives to help others.

I get that you don't like it because it is "Christian" though what harm is it really doing?

Clenz and I are now buddies! I love you man.

I know more atheists who have worked for relief organizations than Baptists.

kalm wrote:I know more atheists who have worked for relief organizations than Baptists.

Okay D1B.

kalm wrote:I know more atheists who have worked for relief organizations than Baptists.

and I more baptists than atheists.

The church I grew up in sends about 60-70 high school students on about a 3 week mission trip every summer and has for the last 15-20 years...I was going into my freshman year of HS when I went on my first and I am now 10 years out of HS. They were going for a couple years before that. The church also has about 100 people who are full time missionaries just traveling the world (the church is about 500-600 members so it's about 20% of the churches congregation).

We can all make anecdotal evidence and claim it's proof.

Also....fuck me, I'm agreeing with SeaGriz.

kalm wrote:I know more atheists who have worked for relief organizations than Baptists.

Sure you do.



Atheists generally are self absorbed and into me, me, me. That's what happens when you don't have The Lord in your life, most become selfish pricks that bad mouth religion to justify their selfishness to not help others.

clenz wrote:

kalm wrote:I know more atheists who have worked for relief organizations than Baptists.

and I more baptists than atheists.

The church I grew up in sends about 60-70 high school students on about a 3 week mission trip every summer and has for the last 15-20 years...I was going into my freshman year of HS when I went on my first and I am now 10 years out of HS. They were going for a couple years before that. The church also has about 100 people who are full time missionaries just traveling the world (the church is about 500-600 members so it's about 20% of the churches congregation).

We can all make anecdotal evidence and claim it's proof.

That was entirely my point.

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:

kalm wrote:I know more atheists who have worked for relief organizations than Baptists.

Sure you do.



Atheists generally are self absorbed and into me, me, me. That's what happens when you don't have The Lord in your life, most become selfish pricks that bad mouth religion to justify their selfishness to not help others.

Having the "The Lord in your life" is often times different than being a Christian...especially from fundi denominations (channeling my inner Cleets here).

At least the atheists offer help without any strings attached while honoring cultural beliefs.