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JoltinJoe wrote:So, based on a SNAP press release, a handful of news outlets have reported that the UN Committee on Torture has "ordered" the Vatican to defend its record on sex abuse.

But the SNAP press release was a lie.

It turns out that the Vatican, as signatory to the UN Convention Outlawing Torture, periodically reports voluntarily to the Committee which oversees the treaty. All signatories to the treaty do the same.

The Vatican's next appearance before the Committee is scheduled for May 2, 2014. Taking note of this date, SNAP's attorneys at the radical anti-American hate organization, calling itself the Center for Constitutional Rights, filed a statement with the Committee, on behalf of SNAP, requesting that the Committee question the Vatican about the former sex abuse scandal. The Vatican responded today with a statement that the request of SNAP and the "Center for Constitutional Rights" was improper under the terms of Article 2 of the Convention.

After filing this Statement, the so-called "Center for Constitutional Rights" issued a press release on behalf of SNAP which included the lie that the Committee had ordered the Vatican to defend itself against SNAP's charges. Stupid members of the media, and slow-witted graduates of UNI, then repeated this lie.

The so-called "Center for Constitutional Rights," which represents the dishonest SNAP organization, is an anti-American hate group founded by lawyer William Kuntsler, a notorious figure who represented violent terrorist organizations which sought to destroy America because, as he said, he "loved them." Kuntslers' proteges include the notorious terrorist/lawyer Lynne Stewart. Yup, SNAP has a lot of credibility.

In response to our formal filing at the United Nations, charging that the Vatican is violating the UN treaty against torture, top Catholic officials are claiming that the treaty only has jurisdiction over the tiny Vatican city state. We hope UN committee officials will see through this desperate attempt to hide from responsibility. And we hope that before the May 5 hearing, Pope Francis will step in and stop his staff from making this cynical claim.

http://tbo.com/ap/world/vatican-respond" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 019d106f49

For decades, when confronted with abuse and cover up reports, top Catholic officials often responded with self-serving hair-splitting - claiming that priests are "independent contractors," and similar absurd legalistic arguments designed to deny responsibility for the crimes of church employees, high and low.Joltin Joe parrots the same shit here.

JoltinJoe wrote:Wow. SNAP exposed as lairs again and D1B has gone into full mental meltdown.

SNAP represented by lawyers for domestic terrorists. Sounds about right.

SNAP. William Kunstler. Lynne Stewart.

In response to our formal filing at the United Nations, charging that the Vatican is violating the UN treaty against torture, top Catholic officials are claiming that the treaty only has jurisdiction over the tiny Vatican city state. We hope UN committee officials will see through this desperate attempt to hide from responsibility. And we hope that before the May 5 hearing, Pope Francis will step in and stop his staff from making this cynical claim.

http://tbo.com/ap/world/vatican-respond" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 019d106f49

For decades, when confronted with abuse and cover up reports, top Catholic officials often responded with self-serving hair-splitting - claiming that priests are "independent contractors," and similar absurd legalistic arguments designed to deny responsibility for the crimes of church employees, high and low.Joltin Joe parrots the same shit here.

JoltinJoe wrote:SNAP. William Kunstler. Lynne Stewart. D1B.

Already addressed:



In response to our formal filing at the United Nations, charging that the Vatican is violating the UN treaty against torture, top Catholic officials are claiming that the treaty only has jurisdiction over the tiny Vatican city state. We hope UN committee officials will see through this desperate attempt to hide from responsibility. And we hope that before the May 5 hearing, Pope Francis will step in and stop his staff from making this cynical claim.

http://tbo.com/ap/world/vatican-respond" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 019d106f49

For decades, when confronted with abuse and cover up reports, top Catholic officials often responded with self-serving hair-splitting - claiming that priests are "independent contractors," and similar absurd legalistic arguments designed to deny responsibility for the crimes of church employees, high and low.Joltin Joe parrots the same shit here.


It's easy and cowardly to blame others for your own crimes and shortcomings rather than take responsibility and do the right thing.

JoltinJoe wrote:So, based on a SNAP press release, a handful of news outlets have reported that the UN Committee on Torture has "ordered" the Vatican to defend its record on sex abuse.

But the SNAP press release was a lie.

It turns out that the Vatican, as signatory to the UN Convention Outlawing Torture, periodically reports voluntarily to the Committee which oversees the treaty. All signatories to the treaty do the same.

The Vatican's next appearance before the Committee is scheduled for May 2, 2014. Taking note of this date, SNAP's attorneys at the radical anti-American hate organization, calling itself the Center for Constitutional Rights, filed a statement with the Committee, on behalf of SNAP, requesting that the Committee question the Vatican about the former sex abuse scandal. The Vatican responded today with a statement that the request of SNAP and the "Center for Constitutional Rights" was improper under the terms of Article 2 of the Convention.

After filing this Statement, the so-called "Center for Constitutional Rights" issued a press release on behalf of SNAP which included the lie that the Committee had ordered the Vatican to defend itself against SNAP's charges. Stupid members of the media, and slow-witted graduates of UNI, then repeated this lie.

The so-called "Center for Constitutional Rights," which represents the dishonest SNAP organization, is an anti-American hate group founded by lawyer William Kunstler, a notorious figure who represented violent terrorist organizations which sought to destroy America because, as he said, he "loved them." Kuntslers' proteges include the notorious terrorist/lawyer Lynne Stewart. Yup, SNAP has a lot of credibility.

For immediate release: Monday, April 14, 2014

Statement by Mary Caplan of SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (917 439 4187, mcaplan682@aol.com)

People are safest when power is checked. But roughly one billion people are involved in an institution in which power is basically unchecked. It's the Catholic Church. And its structure leaves their children vulnerable to those who would commit and conceal child sex crimes.

That vulnerability is not just historic, it's current. Kids remain in harm's way in the church today.

And that unhealthy, rigid, secretive, hierarchical, virtually all-male structure is not changing. Despite hundreds of thousands of children being sexually violated by clergy, top Catholic officials have done and are doing virtually nothing to institute a series of “checks and balances” that would make innocent kids and vulnerable adults safer – by deterring cover ups, by exposing predators, or by punishing wrongdoers.

They are making promises and adopting policies and establishing protocols and issuing apologies, none of which matter because the real decision-makers in the church – the clergy – have all the power and continue to abuse it for selfish ends: power, prestige and promotions.

So that's why we are turning to secular authorities to do what religious figures refuse to do: hold Catholic officials responsible for the pledges they've made and the choices they make – reckless, callous and deceitful choices – to protect guilty adults over innocent children.

Vatican officials signed a treaty on the rights of the child. In February, they were held responsible – via a blistering United Nations report – for breaking that treaty.

We hope the UN's Committee on Torture will issue a similar report after they read the evidence and question Vatican officials in May in Geneva.

These United Nations panels have no subpoena power. They can't compel testimony. They can't arrest, charge, convict or imprison anyone.

They can investigate, however, and issue reports and use their “bully pulpits” to do what most other secular authorities are too small, under-funded or timid to do – call out Catholic officials for saying one thing and doing another, and for putting children in harm's way time and time and time again, not just in years past, but today as well. They can lay out recommendations that remind us of the enormous gulf between how Catholic officials deal with sexual violence and how they SHOULD deal with sexual violence.

And that's real progress. To have top officials of this powerful institution exposed as complicit in devastating sexual violence across the globe by an unimpeachable source is a huge step forward toward a safer church and world for kids.

Our report says that despite decades of scandal, there has never been “an effort to systemically address the culpability of higher-level church officials who have (covered-up and enabled) offenses.” That's an understatement. The Catholic hierarchy's “systemic” efforts have been to hide, not stop or uncover sexual violence by its staff towards youngsters.

Indeed, one of the recommendations of the Committee on the Rights of the Child was to share all archives so that both direct perpetrators “and all those who concealed their crimes and knowingly placed offenders in contact with children” can be held accountable.” We share that view.

The last time Vatican officials were questioned by a UN panel, they split hairs and made excuses, claiming to have jurisdiction only over the tiny Vatican city-state itself. We hope that doesn't happen again.

And the last time Vatican officials were questioned by a UN panel, church apologists (callous fuck like Joltin Joe) attacked the motives of these dedicated, experienced and impartial panel members who serve without pay. We hope that doesn't happen again.

Let's hope that no matter how the Committee on Torture proceeds, Vatican officials can find it in their hearts to listen with open hearts to the expert advice of those who genuinely want to help stop the needless suffering of thousands.

On Friday, the Pope made what some call “his strongest remarks ever” about the church's on-going clergy sex abuse and cover up crisis, in which sexual violence against the vulnerable continues to be committed and concealed. But “remarks” protect no one. Only action protects kids. And we urge Catholics to ask themselves “What specific steps – proven, practical steps, has Francis taken that have exposed even one cleric who has committed or concealed child sex crimes?” There are none. Or ask “What has he done to disgorge current cover ups or discourage future cover ups?” The answer: nothing.

And pontiffs make “remarks” when and where they can do little else: on poverty, war, famine, and natural disasters. This crisis, however, is a man-made disaster. It's one where papal action is both possible and critical. So it's irresponsible for Francis to continue to talk about abuse but not effectively prevent abuse.

Finally, the United Nations isn't the only secular body that should be stepping up here. Local and national authorities – police, prosecutors, attorneys general, justice ministers and others – must find the courage and take the time to investigate, prosecute, convict or at least denounce those who are prolonging and perpetrating this devastating scandal.

Church officials are not “fixing” this crisis. As a Long Island grand jury concluded years ago, they are “incapable” of fixing it. And secular authorities should not even give them a chance to do so. It is first and foremost, the duty of governmental bodies and leaders to safeguard the most vulnerable citizens.

(SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, is the world’s oldest and largest support group for clergy abuse victims. We’ve been around for 25 years and have more than 15,000 members. Despite the word “priest” in our title, we have members who were molested by religious figures of all denominations, including nuns, rabbis, bishops, and Protestant ministers. Our website is SNAPnetwork.org)

D1B wrote: Joe, not even a chuckle at that **** seal gettin wave washed? Come on?

JoltinJoe wrote:

D1B wrote: Joe, not even a chuckle at that **** seal gettin wave washed? Come on?

Of course I chuckled, Kunstler.

D1B wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
Of course I chuckled, Kunstler.

BTW, WTFIWW kuntzler?

He was more Christlike than the pope. Jesus would have loved him.