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A Ruby Ridge-style standoff is brewing in Nevada, where dozens of armed federal agents are closing in on cattle rancher Cliven Bundy over claims that Bundy has allowed his cows to graze illegally on government land, endangering a protected species of tortoise.

Very interesting story. Here's the video:

http://www.8newsnow.com/category/28259/ ... d=10021724" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He has no "god-given right" to the land. Dude needs to get his fucking cattle under control and play by the same rules as everyone else on the planet.

He's been doing this for how many years? What took the authorities so long?

VictorG wrote:He's been doing this for how many years? What took the authorities so long?

Gov't efficiency in action.

AZGrizFan wrote:

VictorG wrote:He's been doing this for how many years? What took the authorities so long?

Gov't efficiency in action.

More like no one local wanted to stir the pot........we have similar here in the Bitterroot!

VictorG wrote:He's been doing this for how many years? What took the authorities so long?

Grazing cattle is probably low on the list of what needs to be done.


Although, 19 years is a long time to let this fester. The gov't is to blame as much as this guy.

Ibanez wrote:

VictorG wrote:He's been doing this for how many years? What took the authorities so long?

Grazing cattle is probably low on the list of what needs to be done.


Although, 19 years is a long time to let this fester. The gov't is to blame as much as this guy.

That would be the local government.....Like said previously...I bet no one wanted to stir the pot.....

A number of Cattle ranchers have abused the land for decades and decades. And the Government did little about it - why, because powerful people allowed it.

It took pressure from environmental groups to get the law enforced as intended.



Fuck this asshole. Another "independent" jackass that is nothing but a leach on society, and is unable to be successful without government charity/welfare.

dbackjon wrote:**** this asshole. Another "independent" jackass that is nothing but a leach on society, and is unable to be successful without government charity/welfare.

Gawd, dback. When they passed out the Milk of Human Kindness, you got a dry udder.

The guy sounds more like Al Bundy to me. Or maybe Ted.

Yet another "rugged individual" that thinks he is entitled to a free ride.

WAFJ. This guy is a dumbass but the BLM is a bunch of even bigger dumbasses for how they are handling this.

I wonder how much this stupidity will cost us taxpayers.

You have to give credit for the locals pointing out how absurd a "1st Amendment Area" is..

Ivytalk wrote:

dbackjon wrote:**** this asshole. Another "independent" jackass that is nothing but a leach on society, and is unable to be successful without government charity/welfare.

Gawd, dback. When they passed out the Milk of Human Kindness, you got a dry udder.

The guy sounds more like Al Bundy to me. Or maybe Ted.

On the contrary - I am full of kindness.

To those that deserve it.

expandspanos wrote:You have to give credit for the locals pointing out how absurd a "1st Amendment Area" is..

yeah, fifteen years later they finally get it...

Ivytalk wrote:Gawd, dback. When they passed out the Milk of Human Kindness, you got a dry udder.

Spoken like a true Sussex Countian.

expandspanos wrote:A Ruby Ridge-style standoff is brewing in Nevada, where dozens of armed federal agents are closing in on cattle rancher Cliven Bundy over claims that Bundy has allowed his cows to graze illegally on government land, endangering a protected species of tortoise.

Very interesting story. Here's the video:

http://www.8newsnow.com/category/28259/ ... d=10021724" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nevada's State animal should be the deer tick.

This individual gives those of us who do graze cattle on public land a very bad name. We lease around 5,000 acres on top of the continental divide. We are only allowed 60 units (cow calf pairs) and they have to be up there a certain date and off by a certain date. Sometimes due to drought we have to bring them home sooner than we wanted to. This is prime elk habitat and we realize that and work with the forest service. We are also responsible for the upkeep of the allotment (fences, springs) and to make sure the cattle do not wander off the allotment. Do we get a deal? Yes, but we have to follow certain rules to be able to keep using the allotment or permit. Individuals like this tend to abuse public lands because they feel they have no stake in it. They will put in way too many animals that the place can handle and for too long. I will almost bet his place is pretty run down and his cattle look like the Last of the 5000.

There shouldn't be as much Federally owned land as there is to begin with. The Federal Government should own the land it needs to put Federal government buildings on and that's about it.

The second problem is the Endangered Species Act. This thing of trying to prevent species extinctions is absurd. If you're denying people access to land to graze their cattle in order to prevent a tortoise species from going extinct you're doing the wrong thing.

JohnStOnge wrote:There shouldn't be as much Federally owned land as there is to begin with. The Federal Government should own the land it needs to put Federal government buildings on and that's about it.

The second problem is the Endangered Species Act. This thing of trying to prevent species extinctions is absurd. If you're denying people access to land to graze their cattle in order to prevent a tortoise species from going extinct you're doing the wrong thing.

Wrong according to who?

kalm wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:There shouldn't be as much Federally owned land as there is to begin with. The Federal Government should own the land it needs to put Federal government buildings on and that's about it.

The second problem is the Endangered Species Act. This thing of trying to prevent species extinctions is absurd. If you're denying people access to land to graze their cattle in order to prevent a tortoise species from going extinct you're doing the wrong thing.

Wrong according to who?

The Gospel of John.

I would venture to guess there's a hell of a lot more going on than a few cows and some turtles here....

Wrong according to who?

To me it's wrong according to anyone who really thinks about it and has a lick of sense. What is the point of having a law that seeks to prevent extinction for the sake of preventing extinction when extinction for every species is inevitable?

Species are going to go extinct. They would go extinct if we weren't here.

This thing of making it this big HUGE priority to prevent ANY species from going extinct regardless of the circumstances is ridiculous. It really is.

If you can show that it's important to our own survival to prevent something from going extinct then that should matter. But, seriously, do you think having this desert tortoise go extinct is going to be a threat to our survival?

If it's possible to keep the desert tortoise they're talking about around for a while longer without disrupting things too much that's fine. But the problem with the Endangered Species Act is that it makes keeping ANY species around the TOP priority regardless of anything else. It shouldn't be like that.

Do you know what would happen if that desert tortoise went extinct? I think I do: Nothing. Nobody would even notice except for people who are pathologically focused on that tortoise. It would make NO difference at all in the lives of 99.999999999999999….and a bunch of other 9s to the right of the decimal point percent of the people. The planet wouldn't crumble. The ecosystems wouldn't collapse. The heavens wouldn't fall from the skies.

Life would go on fine without that species of tortoise.

What? They're paying a million dollars for someone to round up some cattle?

Holy crap...that alone should be investigated.

Cripes, was there a bid for that service? I'd take alphagriz and a half dozen other CS.com guys with me and we'd be done in a couple weeks (and we'd eat very well...steak every night ) with an additional large profit from selling the cattle.

Seriously...a million dollars to clear some cattle?

JohnStOnge wrote:

Wrong according to who?

To me it's wrong according to anyone who really thinks about it and has a lick of sense. What is the point of having a law that seeks to prevent extinction for the sake of preventing extinction when extinction for every species is inevitable?

Species are going to go extinct. They would go extinct if we weren't here.

This thing of making it this big HUGE priority to prevent ANY species from going extinct regardless of the circumstances is ridiculous. It really is.

If you can show that it's important to our own survival to prevent something from going extinct then that should matter. But, seriously, do you think having this desert tortoise go extinct is going to be a threat to our survival?

If it's possible to keep the desert tortoise they're talking about around for a while longer without disrupting things too much that's fine. But the problem with the Endangered Species Act is that it makes keeping ANY species around the TOP priority regardless of anything else. It shouldn't be like that.

Do you know what would happen if that desert tortoise went extinct? I think I do: Nothing. Nobody would even notice except for people who are pathologically focused on that tortoise. It would make NO difference at all in the lives of 99.999999999999999….and a bunch of other 9s to the right of the decimal point percent of the people. The planet wouldn't crumble. The ecosystems wouldn't collapse. The heavens wouldn't fall from the skies.

Life would go on fine without that species of tortoise.

So you don't think I have a lick of sense?

Are you an atheist?

(Two seperate questions)

Chizzang wrote:I would venture to guess there's a hell of a lot more going on than a few cows and some turtles here....

Bingo! You earned your pay today, Hippie.

The Bundys have been grazing on this land since the 1870's. The non-sensical $1.35 per animal fee was established in 1993 to make the point that BLM could do it, not that it was necessary or even cost effective (costs the govt more to collect than it brings in). This was just a political pissing match between the ranchers and the Big Govt liberals. The Desert Tortoise is not endangered...anyone who has lived or worked from Palm Springs up to Vegas knows the shits breed like jackrabbits. The Center for Biological Diversity works in concett with the EPA and BLM to target ANY AMERICAN lawfully utilizing our nation's natural resources for "beneficial" purpose.

Both CBD and BLM should be investigated for civil rights (property rights) violations.

That the govt has used approx 200 -armed federal agents including snipers is WHOLLY INAPPROPRIATE. At np time did the Bundys threaten the use of deadly force to resist: More apt, the feds recognized the outrageous degree of their action and are responding out of fear and cowardice in expectation of a NORMAL persons response to their unlawful assault.