The Ukraine Crisis

[SeattleGriz]

What does that have to do with blowing up your own pipeline? It's a non sequitur.

What is crazy is Tony Blinken saying that blowing up the pipelines doesn't benefit anyone and then in the same breath saying it will benefit the US greatly.

It shows he's crazy.

Why are you so heavily invested in defending/deflecting for Putin and the Russians?

It's not defending Putin as much as it is pointing out that if we set the rules, we need to follow those rules and not change them when we feel like it. Rules based by the way, is horseshit. Following the set laws is correct and we seem to skirt those. Ukraine gets the right of self determination, but those ethnic Russians in E Ukraine don't get to choose?

Essentially, if you had a choice, would you do business with the US? Many, many people outside the US say, "hell no".

Is that an indictment in the US? Not really, as I'd love to see the rest of the world have our standard of living, but it is a strong indictment of the neocons pushing this shit.

[UNI88]

It shows he's crazy.

Why are you so heavily invested in defending/deflecting for Putin and the Russians?

It's not defending Putin as much as it is pointing out that if we set the rules, we need to follow those rules and not change them when we feel like it. Rules based by the way, is horseshit. Following the set laws is correct and we seem to skirt those.

Essentially, if you had a choice, would you do business with the US? Many, many people outside the US say, "hell no".

Is that an indictment in the US? Not really, as I'd love to see the rest of the world have our standard of living, but it is a strong indictment of the neocons pushing this shit.

We're not perfect but we're better than China or Russia when it comes to the "rules".

Speaking of not wanting to do business with someone, I wouldn't do business with trump unless I was paid upfront. At least the US hasn't fallen to that level of dishonesty.

I know tDS, blah, blah, blah.

[SeattleGriz]

It's not defending Putin as much as it is pointing out that if we set the rules, we need to follow those rules and not change them when we feel like it. Rules based by the way, is horseshit. Following the set laws is correct and we seem to skirt those.

Essentially, if you had a choice, would you do business with the US? Many, many people outside the US say, "hell no".

Is that an indictment in the US? Not really, as I'd love to see the rest of the world have our standard of living, but it is a strong indictment of the neocons pushing this shit.

We're not perfect but we're better than China or Russia when it comes to the "rules".

Speaking of not wanting to do business with someone, I wouldn't do business with trump unless I was paid upfront. At least the US hasn't fallen to that level of dishonesty.

I know tDS, blah, blah, blah.

This is the timeline as I see it.

1 Donbass vote to leave Ukraine because they were treated like shit by Ukraine.
2 Russia agrees to Minsk agreements and Ukraine does not honor Dobass self determination.
3 Ukraine increases bombing of Donbass from 40 strikes a day to 2200 forcing Russia SMO.
4 Russia offers means to prevent escalation, Ukraine refuses.
5 Russia shows restraint and implements a Special Operation which is designed to simply chew up Ukraine/Nazi weaponry and forces.
6 Russia offers truce, but UK/USA deny
7 Oblasts vote to leave Ukrainian persecution through self determination, which is how Ukraine formed itself.
8 Russia accepts Oblasts into Russia.
9 Russia vows to defend

Putin played the long game and he schooled the rules based order(Biden, Nuland, Blinken, Cid).

[kalm]

We're not perfect but we're better than China or Russia when it comes to the "rules".

Speaking of not wanting to do business with someone, I wouldn't do business with trump unless I was paid upfront. At least the US hasn't fallen to that level of dishonesty.

I know tDS, blah, blah, blah.

This is the timeline as I see it.

1 Donbass vote to leave Ukraine because they were treated like shit by Ukraine.
2 Russia agrees to Minsk agreements and Ukraine does not honor Dobass self determination.
3 Ukraine increases bombing of Donbass from 40 strikes a day to 2200 forcing Russia SMO.
4 Russia offers means to prevent escalation, Ukraine refuses.
5 Russia shows restraint and implements a Special Operation which is designed to simply chew up Ukraine/Nazi weaponry and forces.
6 Russia offers truce, but UK/USA deny
7 Oblasts vote to leave Ukrainian persecution through self determination, which is how Ukraine formed itself.
8 Russia accepts Oblasts into Russia.
9 Russia vows to defend

Putin played the long game and he schooled the rules based order(Biden, Nuland, Blinken, Cid).

Russia good…other guys bad. Transsexual satanists, Nazis, Hunter Biden. Is rotten potato.

[UNI88]

We're not perfect but we're better than China or Russia when it comes to the "rules".

Speaking of not wanting to do business with someone, I wouldn't do business with trump unless I was paid upfront. At least the US hasn't fallen to that level of dishonesty.

I know tDS, blah, blah, blah.

This is the timeline as I see it.

1 Donbass vote to leave Ukraine because they were treated like shit by Ukraine.
2 Russia agrees to Minsk agreements and Ukraine does not honor Dobass self determination.
3 Ukraine increases bombing of Donbass from 40 strikes a day to 2200 forcing Russia SMO.
4 Russia offers means to prevent escalation, Ukraine refuses.
5 Russia shows restraint and implements a Special Operation which is designed to simply chew up Ukraine/Nazi weaponry and forces.
6 Russia offers truce, but UK/USA deny
7 Oblasts vote to leave Ukrainian persecution through self determination, which is how Ukraine formed itself.
8 Russia accepts Oblasts into Russia.
9 Russia vows to defend

Putin played the long game and he schooled the rules based order(Biden, Nuland, Blinken, Cid).

History through the eyes of a Putin apologist.

The US hasn't used tactics similar to how Russia is annexing the oblasts since we were stealing the land that you grew up on from Native Americans.
If the Oblast votes to join Russia were valid then Japan should kidnap a couple of Russian fisherman, get them drunk and have them sign over the Sakhalin Oblast and Kamchatka Krai.

[SeattleGriz]

This is the timeline as I see it.

1 Donbass vote to leave Ukraine because they were treated like shit by Ukraine.
2 Russia agrees to Minsk agreements and Ukraine does not honor Dobass self determination.
3 Ukraine increases bombing of Donbass from 40 strikes a day to 2200 forcing Russia SMO.
4 Russia offers means to prevent escalation, Ukraine refuses.
5 Russia shows restraint and implements a Special Operation which is designed to simply chew up Ukraine/Nazi weaponry and forces.
6 Russia offers truce, but UK/USA deny
7 Oblasts vote to leave Ukrainian persecution through self determination, which is how Ukraine formed itself.
8 Russia accepts Oblasts into Russia.
9 Russia vows to defend

Putin played the long game and he schooled the rules based order(Biden, Nuland, Blinken, Cid).

History through the eyes of a Putin apologist.

The US hasn't used tactics similar to how Russia is annexing the oblasts since we were stealing the land that you grew up on from Native Americans.
If the Oblast votes to join Russia were valid then Japan should kidnap a couple of Russian fisherman, get them drunk and have them sign over the Sakhalin Oblast and Kamchatka Krai.

So Ukraine has no right to self determination. Got it. If it doesn't work for them, it doesn't work for anyone else. Nice and hominem by the way. Maybe a straw man next please.

[SeattleGriz]

This is the timeline as I see it.

1 Donbass vote to leave Ukraine because they were treated like shit by Ukraine.
2 Russia agrees to Minsk agreements and Ukraine does not honor Dobass self determination.
3 Ukraine increases bombing of Donbass from 40 strikes a day to 2200 forcing Russia SMO.
4 Russia offers means to prevent escalation, Ukraine refuses.
5 Russia shows restraint and implements a Special Operation which is designed to simply chew up Ukraine/Nazi weaponry and forces.
6 Russia offers truce, but UK/USA deny
7 Oblasts vote to leave Ukrainian persecution through self determination, which is how Ukraine formed itself.
8 Russia accepts Oblasts into Russia.
9 Russia vows to defend

Putin played the long game and he schooled the rules based order(Biden, Nuland, Blinken, Cid).

Russia good…other guys bad. Transsexual satanists, Nazis, Hunter Biden. Is rotten potato.

I'm sorry you are hurt over your go to sources having lied about Nazis in Ukraine. Finding better ones isn't too hard.

[UNI88]

History through the eyes of a Putin apologist.

The US hasn't used tactics similar to how Russia is annexing the oblasts since we were stealing the land that you grew up on from Native Americans.
If the Oblast votes to join Russia were valid then Japan should kidnap a couple of Russian fisherman, get them drunk and have them sign over the Sakhalin Oblast and Kamchatka Krai.

So Ukraine has no right to self determination. Got it. If it doesn't work for them, it doesn't work for anyone else. Nice and hominem by the way. Maybe a straw man next please.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia guaranteed that sovereignty when Ukraine gave up their nukes. Russia went back on it's word and violated Ukraine's sovereignty. Russia has repeatedly violated international law (i.e. the rules/laws). Trying to justify Russia's invasion is being a Putin apologist, it cannot be justified.

[SeattleGriz]

So Ukraine has no right to self determination. Got it. If it doesn't work for them, it doesn't work for anyone else. Nice and hominem by the way. Maybe a straw man next please.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia guaranteed that sovereignty when Ukraine gave up their nukes. Russia went back on it's word and violated Ukraine's sovereignty. Russia has repeatedly violated international law (i.e. the rules/laws). Trying to justify Russia's invasion is being a Putin apologist, it cannot be justified.

The oblasts have no say? They are to be treated like shit? You apparently are only for self determination when it suits your rules. Not law.

[kalm]

Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia guaranteed that sovereignty when Ukraine gave up their nukes. Russia went back on it's word and violated Ukraine's sovereignty. Russia has repeatedly violated international law (i.e. the rules/laws). Trying to justify Russia's invasion is being a Putin apologist, it cannot be justified.

The oblasts have no say? They are to be treated like shit? You apparently are only for self determination when it suits your rules. Not law.

According to my buddy who got out of Kharkiv with his Ukrainian wife a week after the invasion started, about 1/3 of the population supported being a part of Russia.

[Skjellyfetti]

The oblasts have no say? They are to be treated like shit? You apparently are only for self determination when it suits your rules. Not law.

What about Russian oblasts? Poland can invade Kalingrad and have a sham referendum. No problem? Make Konigsberg Prussian Again!

[SeattleGriz]

The oblasts have no say? They are to be treated like shit? You apparently are only for self determination when it suits your rules. Not law.

What about Russian oblasts? Poland can invade Kalingrad and have a sham referendum. No problem? Make Konigsberg Prussian Again!

Have the ethnic Polish been treated like shit and bombed for the last eight years? Be my guest if yes.

[SeattleGriz]

Master diplomat, Elon Musk chimes in.

Sure hope that Ukrainian tough guy doesn't get his American allowance cut, especially now that Germany has to buy American LNG. How many companies do you suppose have free LNG, as they usually sell it two years in advance? I know. Maybe they can still buy Russian gas from China at jacked up prices.

[Skjellyfetti]

Have the ethnic Polish been treated like shit and bombed for the last eight years? Be my guest if yes.

Why limited to the last 8 years? Did Russia send troops into the Donbas 8 years ago or something?

BTW, Russia always denied sending troops. I'm sure you ate that up. But, official obits of soldiers killed since February are full or Russian soldiers who have been fighting in Donbas for the last 8 years.

[SeattleGriz]

Have the ethnic Polish been treated like shit and bombed for the last eight years? Be my guest if yes.

Why limited to the last 8 years? Did Russia send troops into the Donbas 8 years ago or something?

BTW, Russia always denied sending troops. I'm sure you ate that up. But, official obits of soldiers killed since February are full or Russian soldiers who have been fighting in Donbas for the last 8 years.

How long has Ukraine been bombing the Donbas? Since 2014.

Has Russia been bombing the "Polish" area for the last eight years?

[kalm]

Master diplomat, Elon Musk chimes in.

Sure hope that Ukrainian tough guy doesn't get his American allowance cut, especially now that Germany has to buy American LNG. How many companies do you suppose have free LNG, as they usually sell it two years in advance? I know. Maybe they can still buy Russian gas from China at jacked up prices.

Musk said Ukraine should be neutral in Russia’s war in Ukraine?

[SeattleGriz]

Sure hope that Ukrainian tough guy doesn't get his American allowance cut, especially now that Germany has to buy American LNG. How many companies do you suppose have free LNG, as they usually sell it two years in advance? I know. Maybe they can still buy Russian gas from China at jacked up prices.

Musk said Ukraine should be neutral in Russia’s war in Ukraine?

Ukraine's ambassador to Germany told Musk to fuck off.

[kalm]

Musk said Ukraine should be neutral in Russia’s war in Ukraine?

Ukraine's ambassador to Germany told Musk to fuck off.

Yes. And?

[SeattleGriz]

Ukraine's ambassador to Germany told Musk to fuck off.

Yes. And?

What I previously said. As a guy who gets his allowance from the American taxpayers he sure does talk tough, especially considering the Germans are now fucked for nat gas. I would send the joke of a diplomat to his bedroom without dinner.

[UNI88]

What about Russian oblasts? Poland can invade Kalingrad and have a sham referendum. No problem? Make Konigsberg Prussian Again!

Have the ethnic Polish been treated like shit and bombed for the last eight years? Be my guest if yes.

So Pakistan or another Muslim nation could legally invade China to protect the Uighurs?

Mexico could invade the US to protect ethnic Mexicans who are being treated like shit?

You don't get to invade a sovereign nation to protect your kindred. If human rights violations are occuring you work through the UN, Amnesty International, etc. to bring them to light. Russia has a hard time doing that because they are just as guilty if not more so. If you can't do that then encourage them to move back to the motherland.

You bitch about the US not following the rules and then defend Russia when they say hold my beer.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[SeattleGriz]

Have the ethnic Polish been treated like shit and bombed for the last eight years? Be my guest if yes.

So Pakistan or another Muslim nation could legally invade China to protect the Uighurs?

Mexico could invade the US to protect ethnic Mexicans who are being treated like shit?

You don't get to invade a sovereign nation to protect your kindred. If human rights violations are occuring you work through the UN, Amnesty International, etc. to bring them to light. Russia has a hard time doing that because they are just as guilty if not more so. If you can't do that then encourage them to move back to the motherland.

You bitch about the US not following the rules and then defend Russia when they say hold my beer.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Do either of your examples involve the active shelling of people? By the way, rules are not laws.

Why are you cool with the way the E Ukrainians have been treated? Why are you for self determination for some but not others?

[kalm]

Yes. And?

What I previously said. As a guy who gets his allowance from the American taxpayers he sure does talk tough, especially considering the Germans are now fucked for nat gas. I would send the joke of a diplomat to his bedroom without dinner.

What does Ukraine ambassador to Germany’s highly appropriate response to a petulant egotist billionaire with zero diplomatic experience but a giant inferiority megaphone, and who‘s own allowance has switched from his parents to American tax payers have to do with anything?

What a strange take.

[SeattleGriz]

What I previously said. As a guy who gets his allowance from the American taxpayers he sure does talk tough, especially considering the Germans are now fucked for nat gas. I would send the joke of a diplomat to his bedroom without dinner.

What does Ukraine ambassador to Germany’s highly appropriate response to a petulant egotist billionaire with zero diplomatic experience but a giant inferiority megaphone, and who‘s own allowance has switched from his parents to American tax payers have to do with anything?

What a strange take.

Gotta love your tough guy reply, especially since you have no skin in the game. Go get em tiger! I'm backing you all the way from my clubhouse in Cheney!

He's supposed to be a professional and if I'm paying his salary, he better grow the fuck up until he bears arms and puts his big mouth on the line.

It's called starting a dialogue and was simply a poll, but that asshat wouldn't know because he takes orders from others outside Ukraine. Guy's a bitch.

Sure hope Elon doesn't turn off his internet (starlink).

[Skjellyfetti]

Yeah, SDHornet is going to eat his words. The Russians West of the Dnipro have no resupply route. Ukraine is advancing slower in Kharkiv but the Kherson counteroffensive isn't over and certainly not an "utter failure." Lol.

Anyone claiming the Kerson counteroffensive wasn't a failure just isn't paying attention. At best you can claim it was a feign for the Kharkov counteroffensive.

What if the eastern counteroffensive was a feint for Kherson?? It's always a feint, right?

Ukraine make their push past the Oskil River yet?

[∞∞∞]

I find it funny how all the people which "want to be" part of Russia continue to celebrate when Ukrainian forces liberate them.

I suggest SD reads "The Moon is Down" by Steinbeck. Russia can't win this war.