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There's a surprise side order of sourpuss getting served up in the national argument over raising the minimum wage: discontented workers say they'll stop tipping when they go out to eat.

The surprise battleground is Seattle, where a movement to raise the minimum wage -- at $9.32, already the highest in the country -- to $15, is seen as setting the tone for the nationwide discussion. The city's effort makes President Obama's push for increasing the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $10.10 appear modest in comparison. As Washington guarantees the state's full minimum wage for servers, who would continue to make tips on top of it, the drive has pitted the lower middle class against the working class who serve them food.

"I operate heavy machinery and make that... how does a fry cook get that?" said Carole Holfeld, a 39-year-old forklift operator and single mother from Tacoma, Wash. Making $16 an hour at Mega Brands, where she's worked for seven years, she doesn't think waiters deserve to make more than she does. What if the minimum wage is raised to $15? "Zero tip," she said.

“Why would I tip someone making as much as me for doing their job? Nobody tips me for doing mine!”

"Anybody trying to have a family on minimum wage needs to have their head examined," said Jan Fogel, a 47-year-old part-time dog sitter and print broker in Seattle. Based on her experience working in a pizza parlor when she was 18, she believes jobs waiting tables are stepping stones to the adult world and don't deserve a $15 per hour rate, plus tips.

"This is the age of entitlement and a wake-up call is badly needed," she said.



Damned socialist councilwoman...getting people riled up and starting class warfare.

Meh... Tempest in a Teapot
My dad can beat up your dad

They don't report that this is ancient news in Seattle
and that most employers already pay well above Minimum wage because its become the standard
The reason they're headed to $15.00 is because that's already where it is
In the day to day reality of the Seattle market place

If you're being paid enough that you are dry, warm, and fed, then you shouldn't expect to be tipped, nor should the customer be expected to tip you. If you want more get a second gig.

Chizzang wrote:Meh... Tempest in a Teapot
My dad can beat up your dad

They don't report that this is ancient news in Seattle
and that most employers already pay well above Minimum wage because its become the standard
The reason they're headed to $15.00 is because that's already where it is
In the day to day reality of the Seattle market place

What the hell do you know? It's not like you live there or anything.

Chizzang wrote:Meh... Tempest in a Teapot
My dad can beat up your dad

They don't report that this is ancient news in Seattle
and that most employers already pay well above Minimum wage because its become the standard
The reason they're headed to $15.00 is because that's already where it is
In the day to day reality of the Seattle market place

It's that's already where it is, then why bother raising it?

Just another reason not to live/visit Seattle.

Fed min wage for tipped employees is $2.13 per hour. PA is $2.83 (with tips still must meet fed min wage of $7.25). If Seattle wait staff end up getting $15 per hr (or anywhere else for that matter), and I ever go there again, I would go to European style tipping- 5-10%, instead of the around 20% I usually do.

houndawg wrote:If you're being paid enough that you are dry, warm, and fed, then you shouldn't expect to be tipped, nor should the customer be expected to tip you. If you want more get a second gig.

Stop the fucking presses. Houndawg and I agree.

Chizzang wrote:Meh... Tempest in a Teapot
My dad can beat up your dad

They don't report that this is ancient news in Seattle
and that most employers already pay well above Minimum wage because its become the standard
The reason they're headed to $15.00 is because that's already where it is
In the day to day reality of the Seattle market place

Really? Servers and dishwashers and busboys are already making $15/hour?

AZGrizFan wrote:

Chizzang wrote:Meh... Tempest in a Teapot
My dad can beat up your dad

They don't report that this is ancient news in Seattle
and that most employers already pay well above Minimum wage because its become the standard
The reason they're headed to $15.00 is because that's already where it is
In the day to day reality of the Seattle market place

Really? Servers and dishwashers and busboys are already making $15/hour?

Here let me clarify...
$15.00 is where department stores and non-food service type places are
Excluding Starbucks and fancy coffee shops etc. (which actually are at $15.00)

So yeah... dishwasher / Bus boys are getting $8.00 & $9.00
But a whole bunch of jobs that used to be minimum type jobs are now getting close to twice that amount and not because of the kind souls and loving disposition of Seattle management...

But because its easier to keep good employees if you pay them a little more

Chizzang wrote:Meh... Tempest in a Teapot
My dad can beat up your dad

They don't report that this is ancient news in Seattle
and that most employers already pay well above Minimum wage because its become the standard
The reason they're headed to $15.00 is because that's already where it is
In the day to day reality of the Seattle market place

What I took away from this was that there is a forklift driver making 16 bucks an hour who believes people should be paid according to what they do rather than by an arbitrary wage

And I guaran damn tee you she votes Democrat

They probably just made her up

Chizzang wrote: Here let me clarify...
$15.00 is where department stores and non-food service type places are
Excluding Starbucks and fancy coffee shops etc. (which actually are at $15.00)

So yeah... dishwasher / Bus boys are getting $8.00 & $9.00
But a whole bunch of jobs that used to be minimum type jobs are now getting close to twice that amount and not because of the kind souls and loving disposition of Seattle management...

But because its easier to keep good employees if you pay them a little more

But if everyone pays $15/hour, then you'll have people leaving for $17/hour. Eventually, some employers are going to get priced out...and then who will support those folks living off the government on the measly taxes since your area's largest companies are trying to avoid paying their fair share?

It is a vicious cycle...and the lower class will now be able to afford better guns when they decide to attack the castles.

Cluck U wrote:

Chizzang wrote: Here let me clarify...
$15.00 is where department stores and non-food service type places are
Excluding Starbucks and fancy coffee shops etc. (which actually are at $15.00)

So yeah... dishwasher / Bus boys are getting $8.00 & $9.00
But a whole bunch of jobs that used to be minimum type jobs are now getting close to twice that amount and not because of the kind souls and loving disposition of Seattle management...

But because its easier to keep good employees if you pay them a little more

But if everyone pays $15/hour, then you'll have people leaving for $17/hour. Eventually, some employers are going to get priced out...and then who will support those folks living off the government on the measly taxes since your area's largest companies are trying to avoid paying their fair share?

It is a vicious cycle...and the lower class will now be able to afford better guns when they decide to attack the castles.

Employers are going to be "priced out" of the Seattle market..?

I'd wager that forklift driving requires less effort and brains than waiting.

Especially in high maintenance, liberal Seattle. 'What? You don't have a gluten, dairy, nut, meat - free menu? Where the fuck are we...Monroe?'

Grizalltheway wrote:

Chizzang wrote:Meh... Tempest in a Teapot
My dad can beat up your dad

They don't report that this is ancient news in Seattle
and that most employers already pay well above Minimum wage because its become the standard
The reason they're headed to $15.00 is because that's already where it is
In the day to day reality of the Seattle market place

What the hell do you know? It's not like you live there or anything.

Boehner lives in Ohio, Pelosi lives in California...according to you, they both know what's going on in their communities.

Yes, HalWitGriz thinks everyone in their communities knows what's going on.








Thanks for playing.

Cluck U wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote: What the hell do you know? It's not like you live there or anything.

Boehner lives in Ohio, Pelosi lives in California...according to you, they both know what's going on in their communities.

Yes, HalWitGriz thinks everyone in their communities knows what's going on.








Thanks for playing.

Do you have anything to refute Chizz's statement, or just more of your snarky, irrelevant blathering?

kalm wrote:I'd wager that forklift driving requires less effort and brains than waiting.

Especially in high maintenance, liberal Seattle. 'What? You don't have a gluten, dairy, nut, meat - free menu? Where the fuck are we...Monroe?'

This is ^ a critically important point actually...
Fork truck drivers are a dime a dozen at any shipping warehouse
quality wait staff:
A) Work harder B) Need to know more C) Need to care more
All of which (A thru C) "cost" more in the real world

oh and since when does anybody actually care about anything in that specific article...
Americas lowest level of employment debating on how much they would tip a waiter

interesting stuff *Zzzz ZZzzz

Chizzang wrote:

kalm wrote:I'd wager that forklift driving requires less effort and brains than waiting.

Especially in high maintenance, liberal Seattle. 'What? You don't have a gluten, dairy, nut, meat - free menu? Where the fuck are we...Monroe?'

This is ^ a critically important point actually...
Fork truck drivers are a dime a dozen at any shipping warehouse
quality wait staff:
A) Work harder B) Need to know more C) Need to care more

All of which (A thru C) "cost" more in the real world

Grizalltheway wrote:

Cluck U wrote:
Boehner lives in Ohio, Pelosi lives in California...according to you, they both know what's going on in their communities.

Yes, HalWitGriz thinks everyone in their communities knows what's going on.








Thanks for playing.

Do you have anything to refute Chizz's statement, or just more of your snarky, irrelevant blathering?

Uh, if Seattle is already on its way to $15/hour everywhere "because that's already where it is
In the day to day reality of the Seattle market place," then there would be absolutely no need to make it the mandatory minimum wage.

Of course, the article mentions that many jobs don't pay anywhere near $15/hour, so they must be lying (or maybe they haven't used Chizzy as a news source).



You really aren't good at this.

Cluck U wrote: Boehner lives in Ohio, Pelosi lives in California...according to you, they both know what's going on in their communities.

And you live a couple thousand miles from Seattle... but, think you know what's best for them.

Typical Hourly Wages

These are the typical hourly rates for various professions in this location. Wages that are below the living wage for one adult supporting one child are marked in red.
Occupational Area Typical Hourly Wage
Management $48.90
Business and Financial Operations $30.93
Computer and Mathematical $40.44
Architecture and Engineering $37.18
Life, Physical and social Science $28.69
Community and Social Services $20.16
Legal $33.03
Education, Training and Library $22.39
Arts, Design, Entertainment, Sports and Media $21.74
Healthcare Practitioner and Technical $32.47
Healthcare Support $14.03
Protective Service $23.29
Food Preparation and Serving Related $10.51
Building and Grounds Cleaning and maintenance $12.68
Personal care and Services $13.23
Sales and Related $13.43
Office and Administrative Support $16.47
Farming, Fishing and Forestry $12.38
Construction and Extraction $23.92
Installation, Maintenance and Repair $22.14
Production $16.75
Transportation and Material Moving $15.78

Major occupational group Percent of total employment Mean hourly wage United States Seattle United States Seattle Percent difference1 Total, all occupations 100.0% 100.0% $22.01 $27.68 * 26 Management 4.9 5.7 * 52.20 58.91 * 13 Business and financial operations 4.9 7.2 * 33.44 36.91 * 10 Computer and mathematical 2.7 7.6 * 38.55 44.95 * 17 Architecture and engineering 1.8 3.5 * 37.98 41.61 * 10 Life, physical, and social science 0.8 1.3 * 32.87 34.42
5 Community and social service 1.4 1.3 * 21.27 21.29
0 Legal 0.8 0.9 * 47.39 47.13
-1 Education, training, and library 6.4 5.1 * 24.62 26.27
7 Arts, design, entertainment, sports, and media 1.3 2.0 * 26.20 28.15 * 7 Healthcare practitioners and technical 5.9 4.7 * 35.35 40.19 * 14 Healthcare support 3.0 2.3 * 13.36 17.18 * 29 Protective service 2.5 1.7 * 20.70 25.58 * 24 Food preparation and serving related 8.9 7.9 * 10.28 12.47 * 21 Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance 3.3 2.5 * 12.34 14.72 * 19 Personal care and service 2.9 3.1
11.80 14.54 * 23 Sales and related 10.6 10.5
18.26 22.13 * 21 Office and administrative support 16.4 13.9 * 16.54 19.27 * 17 Farming, fishing, and forestry 0.3 0.1 * 11.65 19.35 * 66 Construction and extraction 3.8 3.4 * 21.61 27.04 * 25 Installation, maintenance, and repair 3.9 3.6
21.09 25.15 * 19 Production 6.6 5.9 * 16.59 20.92 * 26 Transportation and material moving 6.7 5.9 * 16.15 19.71 * 22 * The

you can go to ANY wage site and it'll tell you... so you can quit making an ass of yourself
check the 2012 calculator for U.S. avg. vs. Seattle

it's right there in print

Chizzang wrote:you can go to ANY wage site and it'll tell you... so you can quit making an ass of yourself

What else would cuck be good for?

kalm wrote:I'd wager that forklift driving requires less effort and brains than waiting.

Especially in high maintenance, liberal Seattle. 'What? You don't have a gluten, dairy, nut, meat - free menu? Where the fuck are we...Monroe?'

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