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Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:33 pm
by BDKJMU
The $2.2 Billion Bird-Scorching Solar Project
At California's Ivanpah Plant, Mirrors Produce Heat and Electricity—And Kill Wildlife

A giant solar-power project officially opening this week in the California desert is the first of its kind, and may be among the last, in part because of growing evidence that the technology it uses is killing birds.

U.S. Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz is scheduled to speak Thursday at an opening ceremony for the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating Station, which received a $1.6 billion federal loan guarantee.

The $2.2 billion solar farm, which spans over five square miles of federal land southwest of Las Vegas, includes three towers as tall as 40-story buildings. Nearly 350,000 mirrors, each the size of a garage door, reflect sunlight onto boilers atop the towers, creating steam that drives power generators.

The owners of the project— NRG Energy Inc., NRG +0.53% Google Inc. GOOG +0.24% and BrightSource Energy Inc., the company that developed the "tower power" solar technology—call the plant a major feat of engineering that can light up about 140,000 homes a year.

Image

Ivanpah is among the biggest in a spate of power-plant-sized solar projects that have begun operating in the past two years, spurred in part by a hefty investment tax credit that expires at the end of 2016. Most of them are in California, where state law requires utilities to use renewable sources for a third of the electricity they sell by 2020.

Utilities owned by PG&E Corp. and Edison International have agreed to buy electricity generated from the Ivanpah plant under 25-year contracts, according to NRG.

Utility-scale solar plants have come under fire for their costs–Ivanpah costs about four times as much as a conventional natural gas-fired plant but will produce far less electricity—and also for the amount of land they require.

That makes for expensive power. Experts have estimated that electricity from giant solar projects will cost at least twice as much as electricity from conventional sources. But neither the utilities that have contracted to buy the power nor state regulators have disclosed what the price will be, only that it will be passed on to electricity customers.

New utility-scale projects began operating at a record rate in the fourth quarter of 2013, adding 1,141 megawatts of capacity, according to research firm SNL Energy. But only a handful of new projects were announced, totaling 13 megawatts.

BrightSource wants to build a second tower-based solar farm in California's Riverside County, east of Palm Springs. But the state Energy Commission in December proposed that the company instead use more conventional technologies, such as solar panels or mirrored troughs.

One reason: the BrightSource system appears to be scorching birds that fly through the intense heat surrounding the towers, which can reach 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit.

The company, which is based in Oakland, Calif., reported finding dozens of dead birds at the Ivanpah plant over the past several months, while workers were testing the plant before it started operating in December. Some of the dead birds appeared to have singed or burned feathers, according to federal biologists and documents filed with the state Energy Commission.
Image

Regulators said they anticipated that some birds would be killed once the Ivanpah plant started operating, but that they didn't expect so many to die during the plant's construction and testing. The dead birds included a peregrine falcon, a grebe, two hawks, four nighthawks and a variety of warblers and sparrows. State and federal regulators are overseeing a two-year study of the facility's effects on birds.

"With the data we've gathered, it's far too early in the process to draw any definitive conclusions about long-term impacts on avian or other species," said Jeff Holland, a spokesman for NRG, the project's operator, which is based in Princeton, N.J.

BrightSource has "confidence in the technology and its ability to operate and perform as expected," said Joe Desmond, a spokesman for the company, adding that he thinks it will be able to resolve the problem of bird deaths and build more big plants in California and elsewhere.

The solar-technology company, which remains closely held after canceling a planned public offering in 2012, intends to use its technology in China and other countries, Mr. Desmond said.

The company put plans for a third California solar farm on indefinite hold last year, and it abandoned a proposed fourth project for which it had sought state approval in 2011.

In response to BrightSource's blueprint for its second big solar farm in Riverside County, near Joshua Tree National Park, biologists working for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service told state regulators that they were concerned that heat produced by the project could kill golden eagles and other protected species.

"We're trying to figure out how big the problem is and what we can do to minimize bird mortalities," said Eric Davis, assistant regional director for migratory birds at the federal agency's Sacramento office. "When you have new technologies, you don't know what the impacts are going to be."

The agency also is investigating the deaths of birds, possibly from colliding with structures, found at two other, unrelated solar farms. One of those projects relies on solar panels and the other one uses mirrored troughs. Biologists think some birds may have mistaken the vast shimmering solar arrays at all three installations for a lake and become trapped on the ground after landing.

Another concern about the second BrightSource project involves the height of the towers, which would be 750 feet tall, roughly the same as a 69-story building. Indian tribes have objected to the project, saying the tall towers and the light emitted from the facility's mirrors would be visually obtrusive.

The Ivanpah plant draws water for the boilers atop its towers, and for washing its many thousands of mirrors, from underground wells at the site. The water will be recycled; an on-site treatment plant will filter out wastewater sludge, which a waste hauler will remove and dispose of, according to the company.

The plant was more expensive to build than a similar-size conventional solar-power plant would be today, particularly as prices for solar panels, a rival technology, have fallen over the past few years. Many of the solar power facilities currently being developed are smaller than the Ivanpah plant, such as rooftop solar panel installations and solar farms built near cities and towns where there is less space available.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 0641329484" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Tree Huggers Murdering Birds

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:40 pm
by BDKJMU
They build a plant that takes up more land, costs 4x as much as a nat gas plant, produces far less energy, which costs at least twice as much, to be paid for by all the the idiots in CA who voted for these smucks, while killing scores of birds while they're at it..

Stupid f'ing donks.. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:42 pm
by HI54UNI

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:50 pm
by BDKJMU
The WSJ article is from 2 days ago (2/12), so I assumed this was new news. I wonder why they did this now, when USA Today ran this back in mid Nov...Anyway, I was hardly on the poly wing during FB season, esp during mid Nov. I was too busy following JMU choke away their season, losing their last 3 games to go 6-6.

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:52 pm
by HI54UNI
BDKJMU wrote:
The WSJ article is from 2 days ago (2/12), so I assumed this was new news. I wonder why they did this now, when USA Today ran this back in Nov...
The plant has been testing and finally went commercial this week so that's why the rehash I would guess.

The plant is 377 megawatts (MW). We do business with a company that put a 300 MW gas plant on line last year. Cost them $400 million. And it works at night too! :lol:

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:14 pm
by CID1990
BDKJMU wrote:The $2.2 Billion Bird-Scorching Solar Project
At California's Ivanpah Plant, Mirrors Produce Heat and Electricity—And Kill Wildlife

A giant solar-power project officially opening this week in the California desert is the first of its kind, and may be among the last, in part because of growing evidence that the technology it uses is killing birds.

U.S. Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz is scheduled to speak Thursday at an opening ceremony for the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating Station, which received a $1.6 billion federal loan guarantee.

The $2.2 billion solar farm, which spans over five square miles of federal land southwest of Las Vegas, includes three towers as tall as 40-story buildings. Nearly 350,000 mirrors, each the size of a garage door, reflect sunlight onto boilers atop the towers, creating steam that drives power generators.

The owners of the project— NRG Energy Inc., NRG +0.53% Google Inc. GOOG +0.24% and BrightSource Energy Inc., the company that developed the "tower power" solar technology—call the plant a major feat of engineering that can light up about 140,000 homes a year.

Image

Ivanpah is among the biggest in a spate of power-plant-sized solar projects that have begun operating in the past two years, spurred in part by a hefty investment tax credit that expires at the end of 2016. Most of them are in California, where state law requires utilities to use renewable sources for a third of the electricity they sell by 2020.

Utilities owned by PG&E Corp. and Edison International have agreed to buy electricity generated from the Ivanpah plant under 25-year contracts, according to NRG.

Utility-scale solar plants have come under fire for their costs–Ivanpah costs about four times as much as a conventional natural gas-fired plant but will produce far less electricity—and also for the amount of land they require.

That makes for expensive power. Experts have estimated that electricity from giant solar projects will cost at least twice as much as electricity from conventional sources. But neither the utilities that have contracted to buy the power nor state regulators have disclosed what the price will be, only that it will be passed on to electricity customers.

New utility-scale projects began operating at a record rate in the fourth quarter of 2013, adding 1,141 megawatts of capacity, according to research firm SNL Energy. But only a handful of new projects were announced, totaling 13 megawatts.

BrightSource wants to build a second tower-based solar farm in California's Riverside County, east of Palm Springs. But the state Energy Commission in December proposed that the company instead use more conventional technologies, such as solar panels or mirrored troughs.

One reason: the BrightSource system appears to be scorching birds that fly through the intense heat surrounding the towers, which can reach 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit.

The company, which is based in Oakland, Calif., reported finding dozens of dead birds at the Ivanpah plant over the past several months, while workers were testing the plant before it started operating in December. Some of the dead birds appeared to have singed or burned feathers, according to federal biologists and documents filed with the state Energy Commission.
Image

Regulators said they anticipated that some birds would be killed once the Ivanpah plant started operating, but that they didn't expect so many to die during the plant's construction and testing. The dead birds included a peregrine falcon, a grebe, two hawks, four nighthawks and a variety of warblers and sparrows. State and federal regulators are overseeing a two-year study of the facility's effects on birds.

"With the data we've gathered, it's far too early in the process to draw any definitive conclusions about long-term impacts on avian or other species," said Jeff Holland, a spokesman for NRG, the project's operator, which is based in Princeton, N.J.

BrightSource has "confidence in the technology and its ability to operate and perform as expected," said Joe Desmond, a spokesman for the company, adding that he thinks it will be able to resolve the problem of bird deaths and build more big plants in California and elsewhere.

The solar-technology company, which remains closely held after canceling a planned public offering in 2012, intends to use its technology in China and other countries, Mr. Desmond said.

The company put plans for a third California solar farm on indefinite hold last year, and it abandoned a proposed fourth project for which it had sought state approval in 2011.

In response to BrightSource's blueprint for its second big solar farm in Riverside County, near Joshua Tree National Park, biologists working for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service told state regulators that they were concerned that heat produced by the project could kill golden eagles and other protected species.

"We're trying to figure out how big the problem is and what we can do to minimize bird mortalities," said Eric Davis, assistant regional director for migratory birds at the federal agency's Sacramento office. "When you have new technologies, you don't know what the impacts are going to be."

The agency also is investigating the deaths of birds, possibly from colliding with structures, found at two other, unrelated solar farms. One of those projects relies on solar panels and the other one uses mirrored troughs. Biologists think some birds may have mistaken the vast shimmering solar arrays at all three installations for a lake and become trapped on the ground after landing.

Another concern about the second BrightSource project involves the height of the towers, which would be 750 feet tall, roughly the same as a 69-story building. Indian tribes have objected to the project, saying the tall towers and the light emitted from the facility's mirrors would be visually obtrusive.

The Ivanpah plant draws water for the boilers atop its towers, and for washing its many thousands of mirrors, from underground wells at the site. The water will be recycled; an on-site treatment plant will filter out wastewater sludge, which a waste hauler will remove and dispose of, according to the company.

The plant was more expensive to build than a similar-size conventional solar-power plant would be today, particularly as prices for solar panels, a rival technology, have fallen over the past few years. Many of the solar power facilities currently being developed are smaller than the Ivanpah plant, such as rooftop solar panel installations and solar farms built near cities and towns where there is less space available.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 0641329484" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What the fvck cliffs notes plz

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:07 am
by ∞∞∞
IMO, solar technology is the renewable energy we need to invest in. I'm perfectly fine with "dozens" of birds dying if it means another step towards helping humanity gain independence from non-renewable energy (and their greenhouse gases). Over time, and hopefully in my lifetime, solar panels will be cheap and efficient enough to be used on all new-builds. These solar farms are a step towards the right direction.

Additionally, mining destroys ecosystems and one oil spill kills more life than thousands of years of this thing zapping a few birds; it's all about the risks we deem acceptable. Oil and coal are fine solutions for today's world, but let's not pretend we shouldn't be investing in cleaner energy sources.

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:31 am
by kalm
∞∞∞ wrote:IMO, solar technology is the renewable energy we need to invest in. I'm perfectly fine with "dozens" of birds dying if it means another step towards helping humanity gain independence from non-renewable energy (and their greenhouse gases). Over time, and hopefully in my lifetime, solar panels will be cheap and efficient enough to be used on all new-builds. These solar farms are a step towards the right direction.

Additionally, mining destroys ecosystems and one oil spill kills more life than thousands of years of this thing zapping a few birds; it's all about the risks we deem acceptable. Oil and coal are fine solutions for today's world, but let's not pretend we shouldn't be investing in cleaner energy sources.
:nod:

Not to mention a good hedge against global warming.

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:37 am
by HI54UNI
∞∞∞ wrote:IMO, solar technology is the renewable energy we need to invest in. I'm perfectly fine with "dozens" of birds dying if it means another step towards helping humanity gain independence from non-renewable energy (and their greenhouse gases). Over time, and hopefully in my lifetime, solar panels will be cheap and efficient enough to be used on all new-builds. These solar farms are a step towards the right direction.

Additionally, mining destroys ecosystems and one oil spill kills more life than thousands of years of this thing zapping a few birds; it's all about the risks we deem acceptable. Oil and coal are fine solutions for today's world, but let's not pretend we shouldn't be investing in cleaner energy sources.
I don't disagree but here's my beef - groups like NRDC look the other way because this project fits their agenda. But if you would find a bunch of dead birds around a coal or gas power plant they would be raising holy hell.

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:38 am
by Baldy
BDKJMU wrote:The $2.2 Billion Bird-Scorching Solar Project
At California's Ivanpah Plant, Mirrors Produce Heat and Electricity—And Kill Wildlife

A giant solar-power project officially opening this week in the California desert is the first of its kind, and may be among the last, in part because of growing evidence that the technology it uses is killing birds.

U.S. Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz is scheduled to speak Thursday at an opening ceremony for the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating Station, which received a $1.6 billion federal loan guarantee.

The $2.2 billion solar farm, which spans over five square miles of federal land southwest of Las Vegas, includes three towers as tall as 40-story buildings. Nearly 350,000 mirrors, each the size of a garage door, reflect sunlight onto boilers atop the towers, creating steam that drives power generators.

The owners of the project— NRG Energy Inc., NRG +0.53% Google Inc. GOOG +0.24% and BrightSource Energy Inc., the company that developed the "tower power" solar technology—call the plant a major feat of engineering that can light up about 140,000 homes a year.

Image

Ivanpah is among the biggest in a spate of power-plant-sized solar projects that have begun operating in the past two years, spurred in part by a hefty investment tax credit that expires at the end of 2016. Most of them are in California, where state law requires utilities to use renewable sources for a third of the electricity they sell by 2020.

Utilities owned by PG&E Corp. and Edison International have agreed to buy electricity generated from the Ivanpah plant under 25-year contracts, according to NRG.

Utility-scale solar plants have come under fire for their costs–Ivanpah costs about four times as much as a conventional natural gas-fired plant but will produce far less electricity—and also for the amount of land they require.

That makes for expensive power. Experts have estimated that electricity from giant solar projects will cost at least twice as much as electricity from conventional sources. But neither the utilities that have contracted to buy the power nor state regulators have disclosed what the price will be, only that it will be passed on to electricity customers.

New utility-scale projects began operating at a record rate in the fourth quarter of 2013, adding 1,141 megawatts of capacity, according to research firm SNL Energy. But only a handful of new projects were announced, totaling 13 megawatts.

BrightSource wants to build a second tower-based solar farm in California's Riverside County, east of Palm Springs. But the state Energy Commission in December proposed that the company instead use more conventional technologies, such as solar panels or mirrored troughs.

One reason: the BrightSource system appears to be scorching birds that fly through the intense heat surrounding the towers, which can reach 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit.

The company, which is based in Oakland, Calif., reported finding dozens of dead birds at the Ivanpah plant over the past several months, while workers were testing the plant before it started operating in December. Some of the dead birds appeared to have singed or burned feathers, according to federal biologists and documents filed with the state Energy Commission.
Image

Regulators said they anticipated that some birds would be killed once the Ivanpah plant started operating, but that they didn't expect so many to die during the plant's construction and testing. The dead birds included a peregrine falcon, a grebe, two hawks, four nighthawks and a variety of warblers and sparrows. State and federal regulators are overseeing a two-year study of the facility's effects on birds.

"With the data we've gathered, it's far too early in the process to draw any definitive conclusions about long-term impacts on avian or other species," said Jeff Holland, a spokesman for NRG, the project's operator, which is based in Princeton, N.J.

BrightSource has "confidence in the technology and its ability to operate and perform as expected," said Joe Desmond, a spokesman for the company, adding that he thinks it will be able to resolve the problem of bird deaths and build more big plants in California and elsewhere.

The solar-technology company, which remains closely held after canceling a planned public offering in 2012, intends to use its technology in China and other countries, Mr. Desmond said.

The company put plans for a third California solar farm on indefinite hold last year, and it abandoned a proposed fourth project for which it had sought state approval in 2011.

In response to BrightSource's blueprint for its second big solar farm in Riverside County, near Joshua Tree National Park, biologists working for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service told state regulators that they were concerned that heat produced by the project could kill golden eagles and other protected species.

"We're trying to figure out how big the problem is and what we can do to minimize bird mortalities," said Eric Davis, assistant regional director for migratory birds at the federal agency's Sacramento office. "When you have new technologies, you don't know what the impacts are going to be."

The agency also is investigating the deaths of birds, possibly from colliding with structures, found at two other, unrelated solar farms. One of those projects relies on solar panels and the other one uses mirrored troughs. Biologists think some birds may have mistaken the vast shimmering solar arrays at all three installations for a lake and become trapped on the ground after landing.

Another concern about the second BrightSource project involves the height of the towers, which would be 750 feet tall, roughly the same as a 69-story building. Indian tribes have objected to the project, saying the tall towers and the light emitted from the facility's mirrors would be visually obtrusive.

The Ivanpah plant draws water for the boilers atop its towers, and for washing its many thousands of mirrors, from underground wells at the site. The water will be recycled; an on-site treatment plant will filter out wastewater sludge, which a waste hauler will remove and dispose of, according to the company.

The plant was more expensive to build than a similar-size conventional solar-power plant would be today, particularly as prices for solar panels, a rival technology, have fallen over the past few years. Many of the solar power facilities currently being developed are smaller than the Ivanpah plant, such as rooftop solar panel installations and solar farms built near cities and towns where there is less space available.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 0641329484" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Donks. :lol:

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:38 pm
by BlueHen86
kalm wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:IMO, solar technology is the renewable energy we need to invest in. I'm perfectly fine with "dozens" of birds dying if it means another step towards helping humanity gain independence from non-renewable energy (and their greenhouse gases). Over time, and hopefully in my lifetime, solar panels will be cheap and efficient enough to be used on all new-builds. These solar farms are a step towards the right direction.

Additionally, mining destroys ecosystems and one oil spill kills more life than thousands of years of this thing zapping a few birds; it's all about the risks we deem acceptable. Oil and coal are fine solutions for today's world, but let's not pretend we shouldn't be investing in cleaner energy sources.
:nod:

Not to mention a good hedge against global warming.
:nod: :nod:

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:05 pm
by CAA Flagship
Image

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:57 pm
by Grizalltheway
Yawn. No one ever said progress would come without a price.

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:28 pm
by CAA Flagship
Grizalltheway wrote:Yawn. No one ever said progress would come without a price.
Remember that when we discuss fracking. :coffee:

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:08 pm
by Chizzang
CAA Flagship wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:Yawn. No one ever said progress would come without a price.
Remember that when we discuss fracking. :coffee:
ha.. :rofl:

He used the word "progress" in his sentence to define the parameters of the conversation
hydraulic fracturing is not progress
Unless you consider a practice started 75 years ago in the 1940's progress?

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:20 pm
by Baldy
Chizzang wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: Remember that when we discuss fracking. :coffee:
ha.. :rofl:

He used the word "progress" in his sentence to define the parameters of the conversation
hydraulic fracturing is not progress
Unless you consider a practice started 75 years ago in the 1940's progress?
Well, some people consider wind turbines progress, and those were in existence as early as the 1st century AD. :coffee:

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:26 pm
by Cap'n Cat
Baldy wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
ha.. :rofl:

He used the word "progress" in his sentence to define the parameters of the conversation
hydraulic fracturing is not progress
Unless you consider a practice started 75 years ago in the 1940's progress?
Well, some people consider wind turbines progress, and those were in existence as early as the 1st century AD. :coffee:

Those people are idiots and, likely, Southern Conklodytes........

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:29 pm
by Chizzang
Baldy wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
ha.. :rofl:

He used the word "progress" in his sentence to define the parameters of the conversation
hydraulic fracturing is not progress
Unless you consider a practice started 75 years ago in the 1940's progress?
Well, some people consider wind turbines progress, and those were in existence as early as the 1st century AD. :coffee:

This ^ is exactly why the conservative mind is so odd to me... :dunce:

hydraulic fracturing is not progress - it's an extreme extraction process
and we used to only do it in other peoples countries because we didn't give a flying fuck about them
Now we're doing it to ourselves - so its NEWS

1100 Megawatt solar power plants (in a real sense) are progress

Please note:
I'm not debating "good or bad" here I'm debating progress as a parameter of conversation

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:22 pm
by Baldy
Chizzang wrote:
Baldy wrote: Well, some people consider wind turbines progress, and those were in existence as early as the 1st century AD. :coffee:

This ^ is exactly why the conservative mind is so odd to me... :dunce:

hydraulic fracturing is not progress - it's an extreme extraction process
and we used to only do it in other peoples countries because we didn't give a flying fuck about them
Now we're doing it to ourselves - so its NEWS

1100 Megawatt solar power plants (in a real sense) are progress

Please note:
I'm not debating "good or bad" here I'm debating progress as a parameter of conversation
It doesn't surprise me that common sense is so uncommon to you. :dunce: :dunce:

Fracking was "extreme" maybe 50 years ago, but with the development of vertical drilling techniques, environmentally safe (even consumable) fracking fluids, and multi-directional wells, fracking is now an ordinary, common and safe process.

We only did it in other countries because it wasn't allowed here. However, since the EPA studied and said that with all the advancements in technology and safety, fracking is now an environmentally safe practice for extracting the abundant and virtually unlimited energy resources in the US.

Progress. :nod:

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:34 pm
by Chizzang
Baldy wrote:
Chizzang wrote:

This ^ is exactly why the conservative mind is so odd to me... :dunce:

hydraulic fracturing is not progress - it's an extreme extraction process
and we used to only do it in other peoples countries because we didn't give a flying fuck about them
Now we're doing it to ourselves - so its NEWS

1100 Megawatt solar power plants (in a real sense) are progress

Please note:
I'm not debating "good or bad" here I'm debating progress as a parameter of conversation
It doesn't surprise me that common sense is so uncommon to you. :dunce: :dunce:

Fracking was "extreme" maybe 50 years ago, but with the development of vertical drilling techniques, environmentally safe (even consumable) fracking fluids, and multi-directional wells, fracking is now an ordinary, common and safe process.

We only did it in other countries because it wasn't allowed here. However, since the EPA studied and said that with all the advancements in technology and safety, fracking is now an environmentally safe practice for extracting the abundant and virtually unlimited energy resources in the US.

Progress. :nod:
Well that's certainly one story...
In fact it's a lot like the stockholder brochures I get from Royal Dutch Shell corporation

I bet you wouldn't allow hydraulic fracturing on any of your properties :nod:
But nice try anyway

:clap:

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:13 pm
by BDKJMU
Chizzang wrote:
Baldy wrote: It doesn't surprise me that common sense is so uncommon to you. :dunce: :dunce:

Fracking was "extreme" maybe 50 years ago, but with the development of vertical drilling techniques, environmentally safe (even consumable) fracking fluids, and multi-directional wells, fracking is now an ordinary, common and safe process.

We only did it in other countries because it wasn't allowed here. However, since the EPA studied and said that with all the advancements in technology and safety, fracking is now an environmentally safe practice for extracting the abundant and virtually unlimited energy resources in the US.

Progress. :nod:
Well that's certainly one story...
In fact it's a lot like the stockholder brochures I get from Royal Dutch Shell corporation

I bet you wouldn't allow hydraulic fracturing on any of your properties :nod:
But nice try anyway

:clap:
Bet he would with all of the lease and royalty revenue. I sure as hell would. :nod:

If only I had bought land in NE PA about 10-15 years ago...

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:49 pm
by Chizzang
BDKJMU wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
Well that's certainly one story...
In fact it's a lot like the stockholder brochures I get from Royal Dutch Shell corporation

I bet you wouldn't allow hydraulic fracturing on any of your properties :nod:
But nice try anyway

:clap:
Bet he would with all of the lease and royalty revenue. I sure as hell would. :nod:

If only I had bought land in NE PA about 10-15 years ago...
Oh... that's right I forgot
Never under estimate a republicans love of money

:rofl:

I've attached the Hydraulic Fracturing Water Analysis applications (you can start tomorrow)

http://www.hach.com/cms-view.jsa?page=/ ... fgodvW0AfA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:29 am
by HI54UNI
Chizzang wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
Bet he would with all of the lease and royalty revenue. I sure as hell would. :nod:

If only I had bought land in NE PA about 10-15 years ago...
Oh... that's right I forgot
Never under estimate a republicans love of money

:rofl:

I've attached the Hydraulic Fracturing Water Analysis applications (you can start tomorrow)

http://www.hach.com/cms-view.jsa?page=/ ... fgodvW0AfA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Or the liberal's love of money for flying all over the world on vacations.

:coffee:

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:10 am
by Chizzang
HI54UNI wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
Oh... that's right I forgot
Never under estimate a republicans love of money

:rofl:

I've attached the Hydraulic Fracturing Water Analysis applications (you can start tomorrow)

http://www.hach.com/cms-view.jsa?page=/ ... fgodvW0AfA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Or the liberal's love of money for flying all over the world on vacations.

:coffee:

I just got back from 14 days in Hawaii... :shock: how did you know..?

Re: Tree hugging donks murdering birds

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:11 am
by BDKJMU
Now its blinding pilots... :ohno:

"Airplane pilots hit by ‘nearly blinding’ glare from massive Calif. solar facility

Airplane pilots cruising over southern California have been complaining about a “nearly blinding” glare emanating from a massive government-funded solar thermal facility.

The Ivanpah solar energy plant in San Bernardino County is the world’s largest solar thermal plant and has 173,500 large mirrors that reflect sunlight onto boilers in three 459-foot towers. A feat of modern engineering — to green energy advocates, but a flying hazard to pilots.........."
http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/18/airpl ... -facility/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Donks... :ohno: