Championship Subdivision Football | FCS Football | Stadiums | Blogs | Forums

Each year, tens of thousands of immigrant “guestworkers” come to the United States on special employer-sponsored visas to work temporary jobs in landscaping, hotel housekeeping and other low-wage sectors. But for decades, these workers have been demonized and scapegoated, accused of hurting "native" U.S. workers by driving down wages. At the same time, the immigrants themselves have spoken out about their poor wages and working conditions, and have even gone on strike and organized independent labor movements to demand the same rights and wages as that of their American counterparts. It seems the only people who like this system, in fact, are the bosses who rely on a surplus army of imported temporary labor, denied the labor protections and legal rights of citizens.

In 2011, the Department of Labor (DOL) issued major reforms to a flagship guestworker program known as H-2B, which funnels tens of thousands of migrants annually into low-wage jobs in workplaces from Florida hotel chains to crabmeat canneries. Business groups, predictably, sued to block the regulations—but last week, an appeals court finally put their arguments to rest.

The reforms, which the DOL based upon an assessment of wage rates and labor market conditions for U.S. workers, mandate pay high enough to maintain prevailing wages in sectors that recruit guestworkers, and thus sustain current working conditions. The wage rules are part of a package of guestworker program reforms proposed by the DOL, that has long been stalled by Congress and court challenges but, with this court victory, can finally be implemented.

In Louisiana Forestry Association v. Secretary, U.S. Department of Labor, business associations representing the forestry, seafood processing and hotel industries, among others, argued that the Labor Department lacked the legal authority to impose the reforms and was impinging upon employers’ control over wages.

However, Meredith Stewart, an attorney with the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), which represented the workers' groups that joined the Labor Department in fighting the suit in court, points out that employers supported the previous, laxer regulations that made it easy to pay substandard wages. “It really wasn't until the Department of Labor issued a wage rule that would lead to substantial increases for workers that employers decided to challenge their authority to issue any regulations for the program,” she tells Working In These Times. The new rules, she says, simply mandate that “to the extent that employers are going to employ foreign workers, those foreign workers and U.S. workers need to be treated equally and fairly.”

In court, the Labor Department and workers' advocates cited the agency's legal mandate, which explicitly directs regulators to protect workers from wage suppression and displacement by unscrupulous bosses. On February 4, the Third Circuit Appeals Court unanimously agreed that the Labor Department had the authority to make the reforms, rejecting the employers’ arguments.

While the pending regulations would hardly be a comprehensive overhaul, they strengthen the meager existing H-2B protections by barring employers from paying H-2B workers so little as to undercut existing wage levels for non-visa workers who do “substantially the same work.” Essentially, the prevailing wage standard, set according to the Labor Department's economic assessments, aims to preserve working conditions in a given sector by preventing employers from manipulating immigrants to cheapen labor costs. It also would block employers from unfairly cutting hours and from deducting transportation or equipment costs from workers’ pay. Employers would be required to disclose more information up front in the recruitment and hiring process, about job requirements and workers’ legal rights. The regulations also help shield workers from discrimination if they complain about mistreatment—a critical protection because they depend on their employer’s sponsorship for their U.S. visa authorization and are thus easily coerced into silence.

kalm wrote:Force able bodied Americans on public assistance to work these jobs.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

kalm wrote:Force able bodied Americans on public assistance to work these jobs.

You'd have to force American companies to hire them and then I'd be ok with that.

If a company has the choice between a Mexican or someone on welfare from Detroit to work his lettuce field in Arizona... he's going to pick the Mexican every damn time. The person from Detroit wouldn't last 2 hours. The Mexican will work his ass off all season.

But, you can't just force people on public assistance to do these jobs if they're not going to get hired.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

kalm wrote:Force able bodied Americans on public assistance to work these jobs.

You'd have to force American companies to hire them and then I'd be ok with that.

If a company has the choice between a Mexican or someone on welfare from Detroit to work his lettuce field in Arizona... he's going to pick the Mexican every damn time. The person from Detroit wouldn't last 2 hours. The Mexican will work his ass off all season.

But, you can't just force people on public assistance to do these jobs if they're not going to get hired.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

kalm wrote:Force able bodied Americans on public assistance to work these jobs.

If a company has the choice between a Mexican or someone on welfare from Detroit to work his lettuce field in Arizona... he's going to pick the Mexican every damn time. The person from Detroit wouldn't last 2 hours. The Mexican will work his ass off all season.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

In 2011, the Department of Labor (DOL) issued major reforms to a flagship guestworker program known as H-2B, which funnels tens of thousands of migrants annually into low-wage jobs in workplaces from Florida hotel chains to crabmeat canneries. Business groups, predictably, sued to block the regulations—but last week, an appeals court finally put their arguments to rest.

kalm wrote:Force able bodied Americans on public assistance to work these jobs.

CAA Flagship wrote:

kalm wrote:Force able bodied Americans on public assistance to work these jobs.

Who are you and how did you hack kalm's account?

kalm wrote:
Stop issuing so many worker visas. Jail illegal employers.

Cluck U wrote: Racist. Why do you think that a person from Detroit would not last 2 hours whereas a Mexican would work his ass off all season?

Skjellyfetti wrote:

kalm wrote:
Stop issuing so many worker visas. Jail illegal employers.

That will just result in crops rotting in the fields.

I agree with punishing illegal employers... but, this isn't going to fix the problem of the vast majority of unemployed Americans being unable to perform farm work. And, this isn't a recent problem. We've been importing farmworkers from south of the border for a century.

Cluck U wrote: Racist. Why do you think that a person from Detroit would not last 2 hours whereas a Mexican would work his ass off all season?

It's nothing about race. A hispanic person from Detroit would have the same issues.

Mexico has a surplus of farmworkers with experience and the work ethic to survive a summer of farmwork in Arizona or California. The United States has a deficit of these kind of workers.

Simple as that.

The guestworker program provides a way for employers to legally obtain farmworkers. They oftentimes do bend the law, take advantage of their employees, etc. But, this is a step in the right direction toward remedying the problem.

kalm wrote:

CAA Flagship wrote: Who are you and how did you hack kalm's account?

I'm a rooseveltian progressive republican.

CAA Flagship wrote:

kalm wrote:
I'm a rooseveltian progressive republican.

You are a cameleon.
I bet you were great in dodge ball as a kid.

CAA Flagship wrote:

kalm wrote:
I'm a rooseveltian progressive republican.

You are a cameleon.
I bet you were great in dodge ball as a kid.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

kalm wrote:
Stop issuing so many worker visas. Jail illegal employers.

That will just result in crops rotting in the fields.

I agree with punishing illegal employers... but, this isn't going to fix the problem of the vast majority of unemployed Americans being UNWILLING to perform farm work. And, this isn't a recent problem. We've been importing farmworkers from south of the border for a century.

Cluck U wrote: Racist. Why do you think that a person from Detroit would not last 2 hours whereas a Mexican would work his ass off all season?

It's nothing about race. A hispanic person from Detroit would have the same issues.

Mexico has a surplus of farmworkers with experience and the work ethic to survive a summer of farmwork in Arizona or California. The United States has a deficit of these kind of workers.

Simple as that.

The guestworker program provides a way for employers to legally obtain farmworkers. They oftentimes do bend the law, take advantage of their employees, etc. But, this is a step in the right direction toward remedying the problem.

Skjellyfetti wrote:
It's nothing about race. A hispanic person from Detroit would have the same issues.

Mexico has a surplus of farmworkers with experience and the work ethic to survive a summer of farmwork in Arizona or California. The United States has a deficit of these kind of workers.

Simple as that.

The guestworker program provides a way for employers to legally obtain farmworkers. They oftentimes do bend the law, take advantage of their employees, etc. But, this is a step in the right direction toward remedying the problem.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Skjellyfetti wrote:
You'd have to force American companies to hire them and then I'd be ok with that.

If a company has the choice between a Mexican or someone on welfare from Detroit to work his lettuce field in Arizona... he's going to pick the Mexican every damn time. The person from Detroit wouldn't last 2 hours. The Mexican will work his ass off all season.

But, you can't just force people on public assistance to do these jobs if they're not going to get hired.

No but there shouldn't be a single piece of litter along our highways or interstates...or in our public parks...make being on public assistance HARD WORK and maybe these **** will go out and get a real job.

CAA Flagship wrote:

kalm wrote:Force able bodied Americans on public assistance to work these jobs.

Who are you and how did you hack kalm's account?

BDKJMU wrote:

CAA Flagship wrote: Who are you and how did you hack kalm's account?

Yeah. I agree with Kalm..

Skjellyfetti wrote:I can get behind having able bodied folks on public assistance picking up trash on the highways, doing assorted volunteer work, etc.

But, thinking any but a tiny, tiny fraction are going to adapt to life as a farmworker is a pipedream.

Skjellyfetti wrote:I can get behind having able bodied folks on public assistance picking up trash on the highways, doing assorted volunteer work, etc.

But, thinking any but a tiny, tiny fraction are going to adapt to life as a farmworker is a pipedream.