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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/24/13 ... -shooting/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yikes! My boys have an arsenal of airsoft weaponry and it's extremely realistic. They have battles with a pair of brothers who live up the street, and their dad coincidentally happens to be a cop. It's walking distance but I typically drive them over with their gilly suits, guns, and ammo. Gonna have to have a serious talk about where they play, confrontations with neighbors, cops etc.

Terrible tragedy for the family, but I also feel sorry for the cops involved with this shooting.

Darwin award finalist..? (Hello)
The only thing you should point at a cop is your open palms


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ITqS2uTPD4[/youtube]

Is there more to the story? Did the cops have reason to believe there was a threat? Or is just seeing a person with a gun enough to justify deadly force? It seems that the kid fucked up, maybe he didn't hear the cops, maybe he underestimated the situation; but I'm not sure why the cops immediately felt the need to draw their weapons and call for back up just because that saw someone carrying a gun.

If you're taking an Airsoft rifle out in public, leave the orange barrel marker on it so cops know it's not real. Or, if you want to take that off, maybe don't point it at cops who are yelling at you to put it on the ground.

Hello.

93henfan wrote:If you're taking an Airsoft rifle out in public, leave the orange barrel marker on it so cops know it's not real. Or, if you want to take that off, maybe don't point it at cops who are yelling at you to out it on the ground.

Hello.

Agreed. That still doesn't explain why the cops felt the need to react the way they did. Aren't guns legal in this country? Are cops trained to draw their weapons and call for back up every time they see someone carrying? Something doesn't add up here.

BlueHen86 wrote:

93henfan wrote:If you're taking an Airsoft rifle out in public, leave the orange barrel marker on it so cops know it's not real. Or, if you want to take that off, maybe don't point it at cops who are yelling at you to out it on the ground.

Hello.

Agreed. That still doesn't explain why the cops felt the need to react the way they did. Aren't guns legal in this country? Are cops trained to draw their weapons and call for back up every time they see someone carrying? Something doesn't add up here.

Well, it was California. Merely saying "AK-47" can land you in jail there. Owning a toy that looks like one pretty much makes you a felon.

93henfan wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:
Agreed. That still doesn't explain why the cops felt the need to react the way they did. Aren't guns legal in this country? Are cops trained to draw their weapons and call for back up every time they see someone carrying? Something doesn't add up here.

Well, it was California. Merely saying "AK-47" can land you in jail there. Owning a toy that looks like one pretty much makes you a felon.

DC has the highest gun deaths at 21.8 per 100K citizens
The next closest (ins't even in double digits) is Louisiana at 9.6 per 100K citizens

California is in the 4% range
All the higher percentage states are east of the Mississippi

BlueHen86 wrote:

93henfan wrote:If you're taking an Airsoft rifle out in public, leave the orange barrel marker on it so cops know it's not real. Or, if you want to take that off, maybe don't point it at cops who are yelling at you to out it on the ground.

Hello.

Agreed. That still doesn't explain why the cops felt the need to react the way they did. Aren't guns legal in this country? Are cops trained to draw their weapons and call for back up every time they see someone carrying? Something doesn't add up here.

Pointing AK's ( or replicas) at cops will generally warrant lethal force. Just sayin'

grizzaholic wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:
Agreed. That still doesn't explain why the cops felt the need to react the way they did. Aren't guns legal in this country? Are cops trained to draw their weapons and call for back up every time they see someone carrying? Something doesn't add up here.

Pointing AK's ( or replicas) at cops will generally warrant lethal force. Just sayin'

Yeah. The police don't take kindly to weapons being pointed at them. Fake or not, this kid was dumb and got shot for it. If he had listens to the police, he'd be alive. Stupid kid.


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Ibanez wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:
Pointing AK's ( or replicas) at cops will generally warrant lethal force. Just sayin'

Yeah. The police don't take kindly to weapons being pointed at them. Fake or not, this kid was dumb and got shot for it. If he had listens to the police, he'd be alive. Stupid kid.


Sent from my iPhone

No shit. That kid is an idiot. Darwin at work. He didn't deserve to be alive with that stupid head on his shoulders.


OH. Was he black? If so...when will Dal come on and bitch and moan about police brutality?

We actually had someone call the cops on us in high school for playing Airsoft in/on a parking garage. Apparently the dipshit thought they were real guns so they brought in the SWAT team and everything. Thank god we were long gone before they got there.

grizzaholic wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:
Agreed. That still doesn't explain why the cops felt the need to react the way they did. Aren't guns legal in this country? Are cops trained to draw their weapons and call for back up every time they see someone carrying? Something doesn't add up here.

Pointing AK's ( or replicas) at cops will generally warrant lethal force. Just sayin'

I get that. But according to the article the cops had called for backup before they engaged the teen. Also, according to the article the police opened fire before the gun was pointed at them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the police should wait to be fired upon before responding, but it seems to me that the cops were on edge from the get go. That's why I am wondering if there is more to this story.

Andy Lopez, the teen, was spotted by two Sonoma County deputies on patrol who saw the boy walking with what appeared to be a high-powered weapon Tuesday afternoon in Santa Rosa, sheriff's deputy Lt. Dennis O'Leary said.

The deputies called for backup and repeatedly ordered Lopez to drop the gun, O'Leary said in a news release. O'Leary said the deputies fired several rounds from their handguns immediately after issuing the orders to drop the rifle.

"The subject turned toward the deputies, and as he was doing that the barrel of the weapon was rising toward the deputies," Santa Rosa Police Department Lt. Paul Henry told Reuters. The deputy then fired the rounds

BlueHen86 wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:
Pointing AK's ( or replicas) at cops will generally warrant lethal force. Just sayin'

I get that. But according to the article the cops had called for backup before they engaged the teen. Also, according to the article the police opened fire before the gun was pointed at them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the police should wait to be fired upon before responding, but it seems to me that the cops were on edge from the get go. That's why I am wondering if there is more to this story.

Andy Lopez, the teen, was spotted by two Sonoma County deputies on patrol who saw the boy walking with what appeared to be a high-powered weapon Tuesday afternoon in Santa Rosa, sheriff's deputy Lt. Dennis O'Leary said.

The deputies called for backup and repeatedly ordered Lopez to drop the gun, O'Leary said in a news release. O'Leary said the deputies fired several rounds from their handguns immediately after issuing the orders to drop the rifle.

"The subject turned toward the deputies, and as he was doing that the barrel of the weapon was rising toward the deputies," Santa Rosa Police Department Lt. Paul Henry told Reuters. The deputy then fired the rounds

OK. The article I read was the kid pointed the airsoft gun at the cops and they opened fire...which I would have as well.

I will not jump to conclusions...I will wait until the papers/cops/SPANOS all get the correct story and then I will comment on it.

grizzaholic wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:
I get that. But according to the article the cops had called for backup before they engaged the teen. Also, according to the article the police opened fire before the gun was pointed at them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the police should wait to be fired upon before responding, but it seems to me that the cops were on edge from the get go. That's why I am wondering if there is more to this story.

Andy Lopez, the teen, was spotted by two Sonoma County deputies on patrol who saw the boy walking with what appeared to be a high-powered weapon Tuesday afternoon in Santa Rosa, sheriff's deputy Lt. Dennis O'Leary said.

The deputies called for backup and repeatedly ordered Lopez to drop the gun, O'Leary said in a news release. O'Leary said the deputies fired several rounds from their handguns immediately after issuing the orders to drop the rifle.

"The subject turned toward the deputies, and as he was doing that the barrel of the weapon was rising toward the deputies," Santa Rosa Police Department Lt. Paul Henry told Reuters. The deputy then fired the rounds

OK. The article I read was the kid pointed the airsoft gun at the cops and they opened fire...which I would have as well.

I will not jump to conclusions...I will wait until the papers/cops/SPANOS all get the correct story and then I will comment on it.

I agree. I googled this story last night and I am not the only person asking questions. Community leaders are speaking out and there are 2 separate investigations (including 1 by the FBI). I will interesting to see what comes of this.

Again, if the police tell you to drop a weapon, real or not, you drop it. Common Sense 101.

Ibanez wrote:Again, if the police tell you to drop a weapon, real or not, you drop it. Common Sense 101.

You're assuming that he heard them, or that he knew that they meant him. If he was walking away, and the cops were behind him, he may have heard them and was turning around to see what was going on. The kid may have been completely oblivious to the situation. We need more information here, I'm not ready to place all the blame on a 13 year old and give a pass to the trained professionals.

BlueHen86 wrote:

Ibanez wrote:Again, if the police tell you to drop a weapon, real or not, you drop it. Common Sense 101.

You're assuming that he heard them, or that he knew that they meant him. If he was walking away, and the cops were behind him, he may have heard them and was turning around to see what was going on. The kid may have been completely oblivious to the situation. We need more information here, I'm not ready to place all the blame on a 13 year old and give a pass to the trained professionals.

13 years old. I'd guess many of us on this board did equally dangerous shit when we were young

kalm wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:
You're assuming that he heard them, or that he knew that they meant him. If he was walking away, and the cops were behind him, he may have heard them and was turning around to see what was going on. The kid may have been completely oblivious to the situation. We need more information here, I'm not ready to place all the blame on a 13 year old and give a pass to the trained professionals.

13 years old. I'd guess many of us on this board did equally dangerous shit when we were young

No doubt.

I think the elephant in the room here is that the paramilitarization of our local police forces has occurred since most of us were children. When I was a child, you were very lucky to get a single state cop car to show up within 15 minutes if you had a situation and that dude had a six-shooter on his belt. Now you'd probably have five cars within five minutes with Glocks, AR's, and shotguns in their cruisers, followed by an armored car full of SWAT on site within fifteen if requested.

The forces are larger, better armed, better trained, and unfortunately it seems in many cases, eager to employ their skills and tactics.

93henfan wrote:

kalm wrote:
13 years old. I'd guess many of us on this board did equally dangerous shit when we were young

No doubt.

I think the elephant in the room here is that the paramilitarization of our local police forces has occurred since most of us were children. When I was a child, you were very lucky to get a single state cop car to show up within 15 minutes if you had a situation and that dude had a six-shooter on his belt. Now you'd probably have five cars within five minutes with Glocks, AR's, and shotguns in their cruisers, followed by an armored car full of SWAT on site within fifteen if requested.

The forces are larger, better armed, better trained, and unfortunately it seems in many cases, eager to employ their skills and tactics.

Absolutely spot fucking on.

I agree with you all for the most part but I recall being 12 and having cops called on me for having a BB gun. They said drop I and I did. Police have loud speakers in the grills and those things are loud.


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BlueHen86 wrote:

Ibanez wrote:Again, if the police tell you to drop a weapon, real or not, you drop it. Common Sense 101.

You're assuming that he heard them, or that he knew that they meant him. If he was walking away, and the cops were behind him, he may have heard them and was turning around to see what was going on. The kid may have been completely oblivious to the situation. We need more information here, I'm not ready to place all the blame on a 13 year old and give a pass to the trained professionals.

agreed


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kalm wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:
You're assuming that he heard them, or that he knew that they meant him. If he was walking away, and the cops were behind him, he may have heard them and was turning around to see what was going on. The kid may have been completely oblivious to the situation. We need more information here, I'm not ready to place all the blame on a 13 year old and give a pass to the trained professionals.

13 years old. I'd guess many of us on this board did equally dangerous shit when we were young

No kidding. We had paint ball games, and they looked like some kind of weird MP5 wanna-bes, in the hills near town and the drainage/woods were always near hiking trails/horse trails/etc.. and would once in a while have someone jog though and yell out "what the fuck is going on" we would stop, apologize, and that would be the end of it. Today, SWAT would be called and we would all be arrested.

Just a few facts...dont let them get in the way of a good discussion...

The cops rolled up on the kid , who was walking (back to the cops)

The cops get out of their cruiser, draw their weapons, and yel at the kid to drop his gun ( remember, he did not yet see who is behind him...)

The kid turns around to see who is yelling at him and the cops open fire (he was pointing his weapon at me!!!)

All of this was verified by the dash camera video...

Paranoia??? Over reaction???

93henfan wrote:

kalm wrote:
13 years old. I'd guess many of us on this board did equally dangerous shit when we were young

No doubt.

I think the elephant in the room here is that the paramilitarization of our local police forces has occurred since most of us were children. When I was a child, you were very lucky to get a single state cop car to show up within 15 minutes if you had a situation and that dude had a six-shooter on his belt. Now you'd probably have five cars within five minutes with Glocks, AR's, and shotguns in their cruisers, followed by an armored car full of SWAT on site within fifteen if requested.

The forces are larger, better armed, better trained, and unfortunately it seems in many cases, eager to employ their skills and tactics.

This ^

Chizzang wrote:

93henfan wrote:
No doubt.

I think the elephant in the room here is that the paramilitarization of our local police forces has occurred since most of us were children. When I was a child, you were very lucky to get a single state cop car to show up within 15 minutes if you had a situation and that dude had a six-shooter on his belt. Now you'd probably have five cars within five minutes with Glocks, AR's, and shotguns in their cruisers, followed by an armored car full of SWAT on site within fifteen if requested.

The forces are larger, better armed, better trained, and unfortunately it seems in many cases, eager to employ their skills and tactics.

This ^

All except the 'better trained' part.