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Damn solar power plants.



California solar power plants singeing bird feathers

IN THE MOJAVE DESERT, Calif. — The picture is unsettling and disturbing.

A small bird, barely the size of a human hand, had its wings reduced to a web of charred spines. No longer able to keep aloft, the bird was found on the ground after it had flown through the intense heat of a solar thermal project soon to go online in the California desert.

The photograph, taken at BrightSource Energy's Ivanpah plant in east San Bernardino County, has raised the stakes for a similar project in Riverside County. Months from final state and federal approvals, the Palen solar thermal power system could put two 750-foot-tall solar towers and thousands of reflecting mirrors near two of the region's key wildlife refuges and stopping points for birds migrating along the Pacific Flyway.

The project is roughly 50 miles from both the Salton Sea to the southwest and the Cibola National Wildlife Refuge in Arizona to the southeast.

"A migrating bird has to be in top form, having the flight feathers in really good shape," said ornithology collections manager Kimball L. Garrett of the Museum of Natural History of Los Angeles County, who has not seen the picture from Ivanpah but has been concerned about bird deaths at large solar projects.

"If some of its flight feathers are damaged, what does that mean for the rest of the bird's migration?" he said. "It weakens feathers. These are things people don't study because — how can you?"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... r/3491617/

Easy solution. Solar-powered air cannon that goes off every 30 seconds. No birds will come anywhere near.

Put some batter on them birds first and open a KFC.

Progress.

Baldy wrote:Progress.

Indeed.

Grizalltheway wrote:

Baldy wrote:Progress.

Indeed.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Wind energy facilities have killed at least 67 golden and bald eagles in the last five years, but the figure could be much higher, according to a new scientific study by government biologists.

The research represents one of the first tallies of eagle deaths attributed to the nation’s growing wind energy industry, which has been a pillar of President Barack Obama’s plans to reduce the pollution blamed for global warming. Wind power releases no air pollution.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... s-5-years/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So we shouldn't explore alternative energy sources because of events like this? Surely something can be done. Surely animals are smart enough to eventually avoid areas like this. What are the stats on the number of animals that have died due to alt. energy production?

Ibanez wrote:So we shouldn't explore alternative energy sources because of events like this? Surely something can be done. Surely animals are smart enough to eventually avoid areas like this. What are the stats on the number of animals that have died due to alt. energy production?

You've heard the term 'bird brain', right?

Ibanez wrote:So we shouldn't explore alternative energy sources because of events like this? Surely something can be done. Surely animals are smart enough to eventually avoid areas like this. What are the stats on the number of animals that have died due to alt. energy production?

Short of us all disappearing, human actions will cause wildlife deaths. The key is to not ignore them, study the causes, and see what can be done to mitigate the losses.

Some of this has to do with siting - keeping wind farms out of migratory routes, etc.

But, we need power. Some level of deaths will occur - but we can't ignore them either.

Ibanez wrote:So we shouldn't explore alternative energy sources because of events like this? Surely something can be done. Surely animals are smart enough to eventually avoid areas like this. What are the stats on the number of animals that have died due to alt. energy production?

Our wonderful wind generators are killing more than a few bats.....
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-576 ... udy-shows/

Grizalltheway wrote:

Ibanez wrote:So we shouldn't explore alternative energy sources because of events like this? Surely something can be done. Surely animals are smart enough to eventually avoid areas like this. What are the stats on the number of animals that have died due to alt. energy production?

You've heard the term 'bird brain', right?

Crows, for example, are intelligent beings. Not all animals are dumb.

dbackjon wrote:

Ibanez wrote:So we shouldn't explore alternative energy sources because of events like this? Surely something can be done. Surely animals are smart enough to eventually avoid areas like this. What are the stats on the number of animals that have died due to alt. energy production?

Short of us all disappearing, human actions will cause wildlife deaths. The key is to not ignore them, study the causes, and see what can be done to mitigate the losses.

Some of this has to do with siting - keeping wind farms out of migratory routes, etc.

But, we need power. Some level of deaths will occur - but we can't ignore them either.

This. I agree. The key is to understand and mitigate the problem. We put a man on the moon. We transmit voices over radio waves. We can save some eagles and bats from turbines and solar panels.

Ibanez wrote:So we shouldn't explore alternative energy sources because of events like this? Surely something can be done. Surely animals are smart enough to eventually avoid areas like this. What are the stats on the number of animals that have died due to alt. energy production?

We should explore every reasonable energy avenue we can - my post was more a response to GATW.

It is ironic that some enviros scream:
"Save the snail darter!" to block a dam for hydropower
"Save the golden eagles!" then nearly lose them to wind farms
"No more nukes!" which is clean and efficient
"No more oil!" then drive their Subarus to environmentalist meetings

ASUG8 wrote:

Ibanez wrote:So we shouldn't explore alternative energy sources because of events like this? Surely something can be done. Surely animals are smart enough to eventually avoid areas like this. What are the stats on the number of animals that have died due to alt. energy production?

We should explore every reasonable energy avenue we can - my post was more a response to GATW.

It is ironic that some enviros scream:
"Save the snail darter!" to block a dam for hydropower
"Save the golden eagles!" then nearly lose them to wind farms
"No more nukes!" which is clean and efficient
"No more oil!" then drive their Subarus to environmentalist meetings

Hydro is a very environmentally costly power source.


I am very pro-nuke

I don't drive a Subaru

ASUG8 wrote:

Ibanez wrote:So we shouldn't explore alternative energy sources because of events like this? Surely something can be done. Surely animals are smart enough to eventually avoid areas like this. What are the stats on the number of animals that have died due to alt. energy production?

We should explore every reasonable energy avenue we can - my post was more a response to GATW.

It is ironic that some enviros scream:
"Save the snail darter!" to block a dam for hydropower
"Save the golden eagles!" then nearly lose them to wind farms
"No more nukes!" which is clean and efficient
"No more oil!" then drive their Subarus to environmentalist meetings

Well, it's also amusing that people who never gave two shits about the environment suddenly pretend to care when it turns out that alternative energy sources have a negative impact on wildlife.

dbackjon wrote:

ASUG8 wrote:
We should explore every reasonable energy avenue we can - my post was more a response to GATW.

It is ironic that some enviros scream:
"Save the snail darter!" to block a dam for hydropower
"Save the golden eagles!" then nearly lose them to wind farms
"No more nukes!" which is clean and efficient
"No more oil!" then drive their Subarus to environmentalist meetings

Hydro is a very environmentally costly power source.


I am very pro-nuke

I don't drive a Subaru

Hydro-electricity is so 1930s.

I drive a Honda Civic Hybrd AND a Ford Mustang.

ASUG8 wrote:

Ibanez wrote:So we shouldn't explore alternative energy sources because of events like this? Surely something can be done. Surely animals are smart enough to eventually avoid areas like this. What are the stats on the number of animals that have died due to alt. energy production?

We should explore every reasonable energy avenue we can - my post was more a response to GATW.

It is ironic that some enviros scream:
"Save the snail darter!" to block a dam for hydropower
"Save the golden eagles!" then nearly lose them to wind farms
"No more nukes!" which is clean and efficient
"No more oil!" then drive their Subarus to environmentalist meetings

Fukushima?

Baldy wrote:Progress.

Oh, man.....

Grizalltheway wrote:
Well, it's also amusing that people who never gave two shits about the environment suddenly pretend to care when it turns out that alternative energy sources have a negative impact on wildlife.

This ^

Please just go back to burning tires and mattresses in your back yard
The people who actually care about these issues will manage them and handle the solution



As has been stated
1) This isn't NEW information
2) and it is being worked on

houndawg wrote:

ASUG8 wrote:
We should explore every reasonable energy avenue we can - my post was more a response to GATW.

It is ironic that some enviros scream:
"Save the snail darter!" to block a dam for hydropower
"Save the golden eagles!" then nearly lose them to wind farms
"No more nukes!" which is clean and efficient
"No more oil!" then drive their Subarus to environmentalist meetings

Fukushima?

Ever stand under a solar or wind tower during a 5.5 earthquake?

Ibanez wrote:

dbackjon wrote:

Hydro is a very environmentally costly power source.


I am very pro-nuke

I don't drive a Subaru

Hydro-electricity is so 1930s.

I drive a Honda Civic Hybrd AND a Ford Mustang.

I bet I get better mileage than you and I didn't destroy the environment by having 50 batteries in my car.

Grizalltheway wrote:

ASUG8 wrote:
We should explore every reasonable energy avenue we can - my post was more a response to GATW.

It is ironic that some enviros scream:
"Save the snail darter!" to block a dam for hydropower
"Save the golden eagles!" then nearly lose them to wind farms
"No more nukes!" which is clean and efficient
"No more oil!" then drive their Subarus to environmentalist meetings

Well, it's also amusing that people who never gave two shits about the environment suddenly pretend to care when it turns out that alternative energy sources have a negative impact on wildlife.

I think what you are looking for is called irony or maybe cherry picking? Nothing like turning an argument around on someone with their own weapon

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:

Ibanez wrote:
Hydro-electricity is so 1930s.

I drive a Honda Civic Hybrd AND a Ford Mustang.

I bet I get better mileage than you and I didn't destroy the environment by having 50 batteries in my car.

46 mpg on average isn't bad. Besides, don't be that anti-hybrid dick. You're better than that.

Ibanez wrote:

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:
I bet I get better mileage than you and I didn't destroy the environment by having 50 batteries in my car.

46 mpg on average isn't bad. Besides, don't be that anti-hybrid dick. You're better than that.

I am that hate-on-hybrids dick when the can't go up a damn hill or get out of the fast lane, which is most of them. Not all, but A LOT of hybrid owners love to act all superior about owning one. I've been driving my 45+ mpg cars for 10+ years now, before it was the cool thing to do. I am still driving my 2003 and it will last another 10+ years. And I could get a lot better than 45+ but I go down the freeway at 80-85 and drive it like I stole it.

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:

Ibanez wrote:
46 mpg on average isn't bad. Besides, don't be that anti-hybrid dick. You're better than that.

I am that hate-on-hybrids dick when the can't go up a damn hill or get out of the fast lane, which is most of them. Not all, but A LOT of hybrid owners love to act all superior about owning one. I've been driving my 45+ mpg cars for 10+ years now, before it was the cool thing to do. I am still driving my 2003 and it will last another 10+ years. And I could get a lot better than 45+ but I go down the freeway at 80-85 and drive it like I stole it.

Naw, you're just a hate-prick, Stuckey.