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http://www.gallup.com/poll/165539/first ... juana.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

....for the first time, a clear majority of Americans (58%) say the drug should be legalized.

Discuss.

Cleets, Kalm and Jelly will be thrilled... except they don't believe Gallup polls. Maybe they will make an exception for this one.

Legaliztion is the way to go

And NO, I do not smoke

89Hen wrote:Cleets, Kalm and Jelly will be thrilled...

Any freedom loving, limited government loving, fiscally conservative American would agree.

kalm wrote:

89Hen wrote:Cleets, Kalm and Jelly will be thrilled...

Any freedom loving, limited government loving, fiscally conservative American would agree.

But 89 is just a curmudgeonly old stick in the mud.

Should have never been illegal in the first place.

kalm wrote:

89Hen wrote:Cleets, Kalm and Jelly will be thrilled...

Any freedom loving, limited government loving, fiscally conservative American would agree.

I don't see how a fiscal consideration really enters into the moral debate about marijuana. With that said, I think it's clear that marijuana is going to be legal much sooner than not and I'm good with that.

GannonFan wrote:

kalm wrote:
Any freedom loving, limited government loving, fiscally conservative American would agree.

I don't see how a fiscal consideration really enters into the moral debate about marijuana. With that said, I think it's clear that marijuana is going to be legal much sooner than not and I'm good with that.

It's a big part of the greater discussion. But you could even make a moral case around how drug laws are enforced and who and to what extent people get prosecuted.

kalm wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
I don't see how a fiscal consideration really enters into the moral debate about marijuana. With that said, I think it's clear that marijuana is going to be legal much sooner than not and I'm good with that.

It's a big part of the greater discussion. But you could even make a moral case around how drug laws are enforced and who and to what extent people get prosecuted.

I think people like to try to sell the idea of legalization with some ideas of how it would add to the national GDP and such, but makign it legal or not isn't going to change the fact that money is already changing hands - in the end, the fiscal argument is neutral, legalization just makes the accounting clearer. The moral cases are where the real argument lies, and yes, that includes the law enforecement part as well.

Oddly enough, Government control is driving a heroin epidemic in Delaware (and many other places). Apparently there has been such a crackdown on prescription opiates that illegal users have turned to heroin, which is readily attainable at $5/bag.

GannonFan wrote:

kalm wrote: It's a big part of the greater discussion. But you could even make a moral case around how drug laws are enforced and who and to what extent people get prosecuted.

I think people like to try to sell the idea of legalization with some ideas of how it would add to the national GDP and such, but makign it legal or not isn't going to change the fact that money is already changing hands - in the end, the fiscal argument is neutral, legalization just makes the accounting clearer. The moral cases are where the real argument lies, and yes, that includes the law enforecement part as well.

Government agencies waste millions of dollar enforcing marijuana laws and imprisioning offenders.

93henfan wrote:Oddly enough, Government control is driving a heroin epidemic in Delaware (and many other places). Apparently there has been such a crackdown on prescription opiates that illegal users have turned to heroin, which is readily attainable at $5/bag.

Check your pm's for my address.....

GannonFan wrote:

kalm wrote:
Any freedom loving, limited government loving, fiscally conservative American would agree.

I don't see how a fiscal consideration really enters into the moral debate about marijuana. With that said, I think it's clear that marijuana is going to be legal much sooner than not and I'm good with that.

I don't think there's any chance in hell it will be legal any time soon. You've got an unholy alliance of police unions, pharma, and private prisons who are all opposing legalization. It's not going to be anywhere near the top issues for voters in coming elections so there is no real motivation to go up against these interests.

I know I'm sounding like kalm here, but there are just too many interest groups who stand to lose something if marijuana is legalized. I don't really know how else you can explain why prohibition continues when the scientific evidence shows it's safer than tobacco, less addictive and toxic than alcohol, and superior to many analgesics that are legal and sold on the market.

Grizalltheway wrote:

kalm wrote:
Any freedom loving, limited government loving, fiscally conservative American would agree.

But 89 is just a curmudgeonly old stick in the mud.

One is tempted to believe that, G, but I see Hen in a different light. Good father, good husband, good provider, good community citizen - there can be no doubt. However, because of the aforementioned and a rigid Catholic upbringing, he cannot bring himself to let loose as he so desperately wants to do. I respect him and feel sorry for him at the same time.

As well, you KNOW he's a toker. If not frequently, he does partake of the hippy stick on occasion. Would love to see the graphs (of which he is very fond) on homebrewers and marijuana use. Anyone?

Damn near everything that needs to be said - has already been said - on this topic

Pwns wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
I don't see how a fiscal consideration really enters into the moral debate about marijuana. With that said, I think it's clear that marijuana is going to be legal much sooner than not and I'm good with that.

I don't think there's any chance in hell it will be legal any time soon. You've got an unholy alliance of police unions, pharma, and private prisons who are all opposing legalization. It's not going to be anywhere near the top issues for voters in coming elections so there is no real motivation to go up against these interests.

I know I'm sounding like kalm here, but there are just too many interest groups who stand to lose something if marijuana is legalized. I don't really know how else you can explain why prohibition continues when the scientific evidence shows it's safer than tobacco, less addictive and toxic than alcohol, and superior to many analgesics that are legal and sold on the market.

Pwns,
Do you really think that policemen don't smoke pot? Two acquaintances of mine, one a Cook County (IL) Sheriff's deputy and the other a suburban cop there, routinely smoke and,acc. to them, many of their compatriots do, as well. Sure, it's hearsay, but, where there's smoke (pardon the pun), there's fire.

Fifteen years or so ago, I asked the Sheriff's deputy why he and his coworkers use green. Said he does it to relax, but he went off in a tangent about how working to enforce drug laws, especially for something as innocuous as marijuana is a life-or-death thing. For weed, his partners are dying and being maimed, all because it is illegal. He makes a good case. Extrapolate that to the rest of the nation and the "danger" of marijuana ingestion pales in comparison to the danger of enforcing laws to eradicate it.

Marijuana is MUCH less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes. Mountains of research on that, too, but no use arguing it here. It's been beaten to death.

Just saying.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

Pwns wrote:
I don't think there's any chance in hell it will be legal any time soon. You've got an unholy alliance of police unions, pharma, and private prisons who are all opposing legalization. It's not going to be anywhere near the top issues for voters in coming elections so there is no real motivation to go up against these interests.

I know I'm sounding like kalm here, but there are just too many interest groups who stand to lose something if marijuana is legalized. I don't really know how else you can explain why prohibition continues when the scientific evidence shows it's safer than tobacco, less addictive and toxic than alcohol, and superior to many analgesics that are legal and sold on the market.

Pwns,
Do you really think that policemen don't smoke pot? Two acquaintances of mine, one a Cook County (IL) Sheriff's deputy and the other a suburban cop there, routinely smoke and,acc. to them, many of their compatriots do, as well. Sure, it's hearsay, but, where there's smoke (pardon the pun), there's fire.

Fifteen years or so ago, I asked the Sheriff's deputy why he and his coworkers use green. Said he does it to relax, but he went off in a tangent about how working to enforce drug laws, especially for something as innocuous as marijuana is a life-or-death thing. For weed, his partners are dying and being maimed, all because it is illegal. He makes a good case. Extrapolate that to the rest of the nation and the "danger" of marijuana ingestion pales in comparison to the danger of enforcing laws to eradicate it.

Marijuana is MUCH less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes. Mountains of research on that, too, but no use arguing it here. It's been beaten to death.

Just saying.

^ well said

Seattle (King County) in 2001 reduced Marijuana to "lowest priority"
Based entirely on evidence provided by their Police Force in the field

The officers reported continually / and all records on file supported

Marijuana users:
1) Peaceful
2) Unarmed
3) Easily handled and reasonable

Alcohol users:
1) Violent
2) unmanageable
3) frequently used weapons

This is OLD NEWS to the Police in this country

Legalize all drugs and tax the hell out of them like cigarettes.

HI54UNI wrote:Legalize all drugs and tax the hell out of them like cigarettes.

This is really the only reasonable solution actually ^
but we like having a DRUG WAR
(we need enemies for some reason)

HI54UNI wrote:Legalize all drugs and tax the hell out of them like cigarettes.

Fuckin' right, Fiver. We agree on something!

Most aficionados of the green would pay four times the current price to be able to secure it legally.

With legalization comes responsibility, too. If you're busted under the influence driving a car, Cap'n Cat will be arm-in-arm with Fiver and the state troopers hauling your dumb ass to jail.

As long as smoking in public places is regulated like cigarettes are. It'll bad enough having to smell that stuff on everyone's clothes.

I don't plan on smoking it, but I will eat it.

Great news! Like MJ said, will the same rules be in place as are for Cigs.

Biggest news is this should get rid of the cartels and blood baths south of the border. A lot of people died to get that stuff on the streets of America. Pot smokers are generally mello, not so much with the dealers and suppliers.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote:
But 89 is just a curmudgeonly old stick in the mud.

One is tempted to believe that, G, but I see Hen in a different light. Good father, good husband, good provider, good community citizen - there can be no doubt. However, because of the aforementioned and a rigid Catholic upbringing, he cannot bring himself to let loose as he so desperately wants to do. I respect him and feel sorry for him at the same time.

As well, you KNOW he's a toker. If not frequently, he does partake of the hippy stick on occasion. Would love to see the graphs (of which he is very fond) on homebrewers and marijuana use. Anyone?

No doubt the lines would be close. I'm definitely a stick in the mud when it comes to this issue. But as I've said several times, this issues is way down on my list of important things. You won't see my lobbying anyone on this one.

Chizzang wrote:

HI54UNI wrote:Legalize all drugs and tax the hell out of them like cigarettes.

This is really the only reasonable solution actually ^
but we like having a DRUG WAR
(we need enemies for some reason)

If you tax the hell out of them, you will keep all the illegal drugs coming in.

89Hen wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:

One is tempted to believe that, G, but I see Hen in a different light. Good father, good husband, good provider, good community citizen - there can be no doubt. However, because of the aforementioned and a rigid Catholic upbringing, he cannot bring himself to let loose as he so desperately wants to do. I respect him and feel sorry for him at the same time.

As well, you KNOW he's a toker. If not frequently, he does partake of the hippy stick on occasion. Would love to see the graphs (of which he is very fond) on homebrewers and marijuana use. Anyone?

No doubt the lines would be close. I'm definitely a stick in the mud when it comes to this issue. But as I've said several times, this issues is way down on my list of important things. You won't see my lobbying anyone on this one.