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Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possible
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:35 pm
by Skjellyfetti
One of the big reasons the U.S. economy is so lousy is that big American companies are hoarding cash and "maximizing profits" instead of investing in their people and future projects.
This behavior is contributing to record income inequality in the country and starving the primary engine of U.S. economic growth — the vast American middle class — of purchasing power. (See charts below).
If average Americans don't get paid living wages, they can't spend much money buying products and services. And when average Americans can't buy products and services, the companies that sell products and services to average Americans can't grow. So the profit obsession of America's big companies is, ironically, hurting their ability to accelerate revenue growth.
One obvious solution to this problem is to encourage big companies to pay their people more — to share more of the vast wealth that they create with the people who create it.
The companies have record profit margins, so they can certainly afford to do this.
But, unfortunately, over the past three decades, what began as a healthy and necessary effort to make our companies more efficient after the malaise of the 1970s has evolved into a warped consensus that the only value that companies create is financial (cash) and that the only thing managers and owners should ever worry about it making more of it.
This view is an insult to anyone who has ever dreamed of having a job that is about more than money. And it is a short-sighted and destructive view of capitalism, an economic system that sustains not just this country but most countries in the world.
This view has become deeply entrenched, though.
These days, if you suggest that great companies should serve several constituencies (customers, employees, and shareholders) and that American companies should share more of their wealth with the people who generate it (employees), you get called a "socialist." You get called a "liberal." You get told that you "don't understand economics." You get accused of promoting "wealth confiscation." You get told that, in America, people get paid exactly what they deserve to get paid: Anyone who wants to get paid more should go out and "start their own company" or "demand a raise" or "get a better job."
In other words, you get told that anyone who suggests that great companies should share the value they create with all three constituencies instead of just lining the pockets of shareholders is an idiot.
After all, these folks say, one law of capitalism is that employers pay their employees as little as possible. Employees are just "costs." You should try to minimize those "costs" whenever and wherever you can.
This view, unfortunately, is not just selfish and demeaning. It's also economically stupid. Those "costs" you are minimizing (employees) are also current and prospective customers for your company and other companies. And the less money they have, the fewer products and services they are going to buy.
Obviously, the folks who own and run America's big corporations want to do as well as they can for themselves. But the key point is this:
It is not a law that they pay their employees as little as possible.
It is a choice.
It is a choice made by senior managers and owners who want to keep the highest possible percentage of a company's wealth for themselves.
It is, in other words, a selfish choice.
It is a choice that reveals that, regardless of what they say about how much they value their employees, regardless of what euphemism they use to describe their employees ("associate," "partner," "representative," "team-member"), they, in fact, don't give a damn about their employees.
These senior managers and owners, after all, are earning record profits while choosing to pay their employees so little in many cases that the employees have to live in poverty.
And the senior managers and owners add insult to injury by blaming the employees for this: "If they want to get paid more, they should start their own company. Or get a better job."
It is no mystery why America's senior managers and owners describe the decision to pay employees as little as possible as a "law of capitalism": Because doing this masks the fact that they are making a choice.
But it is a choice.
Importantly, if American companies were struggling to earn money, as they were in the early 1980s, we would not be having this conversation. But the "efficiency" and "shareholder-value" drive that began back then has now gone too far the other way. Just look at these charts...
CHART ONE: Corporate profits and profit margins are at an all-time high. American companies are making more money and more per dollar of sales than they ever have before. Full stop. This means that the companies have oceans of cash to invest. But they're not investing it. Because they're too risk averse, profit-obsessed, and short-term greedy.
[quote
]CHART TWO: Wages as a percent of the economy are at an all-time low. Why are corporate profits so high? One reason is that companies are paying employees less than they ever have as a share of GDP. And that, in turn, is another reason the economy is so weak. Those "wages" represent spending power for American consumers. American consumer spending is revenue for other companies. So the profit maximization obsession of American corporations is actually starving the rest of the economy of revenue growth.[/quote]
CHART THREE: Fewer Americans are employed than at any time in the past three decades. Another reason corporations are so profitable is that they don't employ as many Americans as they used to. This is in part because companies today regard employees as "costs" instead of human beings who are dedicating their lives to the organizations that, in turn, are supporting them and their families. (Symbiosis! Imagine that!) As a result of frantic firing in the name of "efficiency" and "return on capital," the U.S. employment-to-population ratio has collapsed. We're back at 1970s-1980s levels now.
CHART FOUR: The share of our national income that American corporations are sharing with the people who do the work ("labor") is at an all-time low. The rest of our national income, naturally, is going to owners and senior managers ("capital"), who have it better today than they have ever had it before.
In short, the obsession with "maximizing short-term profits" that has developed in America over the past 30 years has created a business culture in which executives dance to the tune of short-term traders and quarterly earnings reports, instead of balancing the value created for employees, customers, and long-term owners.
That's not what has made America a great country. It is not what has made some excellent American corporations the envy of the world. It's also hurting the economy.
http://www.businessinsider.com/companie ... ore-2013-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:48 pm
by Grizalltheway
Business Insider=commie rag.

Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:07 pm
by BisonMav
This was news in the 1990's with recruited CEO's and skyrocketing salaries. They went from $150,000 per year leaders to $1 Million plus, and are still going up today.
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:29 pm
by dbackjon
Great post - this is what is ruining America
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:40 pm
by BDKJMU
Skjellyfetti wrote:
If average Americans don't get paid living wages, they can't spend much money buying products and services.
Yeah, the avg American the last couple of decades hasn't been paid a "living wage" to buy enough material goods.
A wage that pays you enough to buy a house with heat and/or central AC, 2 cars, cell phones, multiple flat screen HD TVs, "I" this and "I" that, high speed internet, cable TV, designer clothes, too much food to stuff your fat face with, a couple weeks of vacations, etc, etc, etc,why that's not a living wage..
And even those "poor" that don't get a "living wage" once you factor in EITC, food stamps, subsidized housing, subsidized child care, Medicaid, SCHIP, etc, etc, get enough to live off of and be able to afford much of what I listed above..
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:42 pm
by houndawg
the worst of it these mealy-mouthed weasels will look straight at you and talk about how "our greatest resource is our people".
Remember the good old days when the Red Brigades used to kneecap those slimy fvcks on the street? That's what we need more of in this country.

Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:42 pm
by blueballs
What a load of horseshit.
As somebody who signs the front of paychecks it is not my job to "share my profits" and "pay you more" because of some altruistic liberal bullshit. It is your job as an employee to make yourself so valuable that you earn that money. If you are a rainmaker you'll get paid. Period.
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:00 pm
by BDKJMU
And if people feel that they are worth more than they are getting paid from their current employer, they are free to seek employment elsewhere...
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:00 pm
by Pwns
The million dollar question is why are businesses not using profits to expand or hire or increase wages. I can assure you they aren't filling swimming pools with money so they can swim in them.
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:03 pm
by AZGrizFan
I'd love to know what the sample set is for this data.
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:21 pm
by Ivytalk
houndawg wrote:the worst of it these mealy-mouthed weasels will look straight at you and talk about how "our greatest resource is our people".
Remember the good old days when the Red Brigades used to kneecap those slimy fvcks on the street? That's what we need more of in this country.

Then move to Bulgaria, douchebag.
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:56 pm
by travelinman67
houndawg wrote:Remember the good old days when the Red Brigades used to kneecap those slimy fvcks on the street? That's what we need more of in this country.

Work around the clock for some ingrate who'll suck the life out of their workers then dump them in the gutters with no pension/healthcare...
...or fuck the boss' ass up, take their business and watch it disintegrate?
Tough choice.

Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:59 pm
by Chizzang
Honestly... worker production has dropped through the floor to match the crappy pay
People know they're getting under-payed
and thus meander and half-ass their way through their corporate day
We all pretty much get what we pay for
The same goes for Corporations that under-pay / they get lazy sloppy work for the crappy wage they offer
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:01 pm
by Baldy
Skjellyfetti wrote:One of the big reasons the U.S. economy is so lousy is that big American companies are hoarding cash and "maximizing profits" instead of investing in their people and future projects.
This behavior is contributing to record income inequality in the country and starving the primary engine of U.S. economic growth — the vast American middle class — of purchasing power. (See charts below).
If average Americans don't get paid living wages, they can't spend much money buying products and services. And when average Americans can't buy products and services, the companies that sell products and services to average Americans can't grow. So the profit obsession of America's big companies is, ironically, hurting their ability to accelerate revenue growth.
One obvious solution to this problem is to encourage big companies to pay their people more — to share more of the vast wealth that they create with the people who create it.
What this same "author" wrote only one week ago (contradict much):
Well, first let's look at the biggest component of GDP--Personal Consumption (consumer spending). Personal Consumption these days is a higher-than-average ~71% of GDP. Importantly, personal consumption has stayed at about that level for the last several years. It's actually higher than it was from 2000-2007 and much higher than it was in the halcyon days of the 1990s. So if we're wondering who to blame for our crappy economy, we can't blame American consumers. Despite high unemployment and lousy wage growth, consumers are still spending.
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-econ ... z2bKbTzlUt
This "expert" claims that the reason corporations are hoarding cash and not reinvesting is because of
greed?
Bullshit. They are holding onto their cash because of Obamacare, QE3, ridiculously low interest rates, etc. The reason corporate profits are so high is the vicious cycle of easy free abundant money and easy cheap credit. On top of that ultra low interest rates are forcing people, especially retired people, to take their money out of safe and stable investments like bonds and into the riskier investments in the stock market.
This guy needs to get a clue.

Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:06 pm
by YoUDeeMan
dbackjon wrote:Great post - this is what is ruining America
You really are an idiot.
This entire country has been scammed into buying unnecessary things...and then they complain they don't have enough money.
Seriously, are you saying people don't have enough money with which to live?
Try this...stop buying food at restaurants. Instead, buy basics and make meals. You will save a boatload of money on food (and "medicine"), you will be healthier, and feel better. Instead of paying $180/month for phone, internet, and cable TV (with the sports channels, HBO, and other unneeded crap), go to the library when you want to surf the net and check out some books that will educate you on things such as investing, good health, and any other subject you wish to learn. Drop the health club membership and walk around the nearest park. Stop spending money on cigarettes and beer. Don't ever buy a new car...you are just throwing money away. Take your money out of the typical bank and get yourself to a credit union - there is no reason to pay a bank fees to keep your money - and stay away from those check cashing places.
Stop renting...a huge waste of money. Move in with another group of people for a few years (friends, family, co-workers) to save money, keep your legs closed, learn to fix up the place instead of calling a $100/hour plumber/electrician (there are free books in the library that can help you learn and free instruction at Home Depot and other area places). Turn off the g-damned cell phone service that you don't NEED.
SAVE AND INVEST YOUR MONEY. Create your own generational wealth instead of wasting everything you have on crap while still wanting more.
Cripes, we have 18-year-old kids popping out babies and getting free housing and food stamps...and then they complain about not making enough at the local Burger King or Wal-Mart. As though they "deserve" to earn more so that they can keep up with those who made better choices. Are you kidding me?
Americans have been sold the American Dream of owning a house, or renting a "place of their own", at an early age, buying all sorts of unneeded gizmos so that they can keep up with the Joneses. What a crock of crap. Nobody needs a tenth of the stuff they consider "necessary."
Anyone can save money if they make the right choices...and make sacrifices with a long term goal in mind. But, ohhhhhhh no. To a Lib, it is criminal to make someone sacrifice consumer goods in order to plan out a better future.

Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:51 pm
by Grizalltheway
Chizzang wrote:Honestly... worker production has dropped through the floor to match the crappy pay
People know they're getting under-payed
and thus meander and half-ass their way through their corporate day
We all pretty much get what we pay for
The same goes for Corporations that under-pay / they get lazy sloppy work for the crappy wage they offer
American worker productivity is at an all time high.
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:30 am
by CAA Flagship
No, no, no. None of this is the result of actions taken by Obama, Reid and Pelosi. Not at all. Why would any of you think that?

Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:43 am
by Grizalltheway
CAA Flagship wrote:No, no, no. None of this is the result of actions taken by Obama, Reid and Pelosi. Not at all. Why would any of you think that?

To some extent, yes, but they're long-term economic trends that are rooted in Reaganomics.

Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:15 am
by CitadelGrad
Reaganomics? Really?
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:11 am
by Baldy
dbackjon wrote:Great post - this is what is ruining America
Merica H8ter.

Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:24 am
by DSUrocks07
Cluck U wrote:
This entire country has been scammed into buying unnecessary things...and then they complain they don't have enough money.
Seriously, are you saying people don't have enough money with which to live?
Try this...stop buying food at restaurants. Instead, buy basics and make meals. You will save a boatload of money on food (and "medicine"), you will be healthier, and feel better. Instead of paying $180/month for phone, internet, and cable TV (with the sports channels, HBO, and other unneeded crap), go to the library when you want to surf the net and check out some books that will educate you on things such as investing, good health, and any other subject you wish to learn. Drop the health club membership and walk around the nearest park. Stop spending money on cigarettes and beer. Don't ever buy a new car...you are just throwing money away. Take your money out of the typical bank and get yourself to a credit union - there is no reason to pay a bank fees to keep your money - and stay away from those check cashing places.
Stop renting...a huge waste of money. Move in with another group of people for a few years (friends, family, co-workers) to save money, keep your legs closed, learn to fix up the place instead of calling a $100/hour plumber/electrician (there are free books in the library that can help you learn and free instruction at Home Depot and other area places). Turn off the g-damned cell phone service that you don't NEED.
SAVE AND INVEST YOUR MONEY. Create your own generational wealth instead of wasting everything you have on crap while still wanting more.
Cripes, we have 18-year-old kids popping out babies and getting free housing and food stamps...and then they complain about not making enough at the local Burger King or Wal-Mart. As though they "deserve" to earn more so that they can keep up with those who made better choices. Are you kidding me?
Americans have been sold the American Dream of owning a house, or renting a "place of their own", at an early age, buying all sorts of unneeded gizmos so that they can keep up with the Joneses. What a crock of crap. Nobody needs a tenth of the stuff they consider "necessary."
Anyone can save money if they make the right choices...and make sacrifices with a long term goal in mind. But, ohhhhhhh no. To a Lib, it is criminal to make someone sacrifice consumer goods in order to plan out a better future.


Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:28 am
by CAA Flagship
Grizalltheway wrote:CAA Flagship wrote:No, no, no. None of this is the result of actions taken by Obama, Reid and Pelosi. Not at all. Why would any of you think that?

To some extent, yes, but they're long-term economic trends that are rooted in Reaganomics.

Top line of the article:
One of the big reasons the U.S. economy is so lousy is that big American companies are hoarding cash and "maximizing profits" instead of investing in their people and future projects.
American companies are NOT hoarding cash because of Reaganomics. It is in preparation for the policies of this current administration to take effect so that they can survive.
Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:33 am
by kalm
CitadelGrad wrote:Reaganomics? Really?
Yes...really.
Man, this thead is....................AWESOME!
Dude writes an opinion piece backed up by some facts basically arguing the wisdom of companies making greater investments in their human assets and all hell breaks loose.
Productivity has in general been increasing and wages haven't been keeping up. Sure part of it can be over-consumption/buying trinkets they don't need, but hey...the is 'Merica...the greatest service and materialistic items economy on planet earth. How are the folks at the AT&T Store and Best Buy gonna put food in their kids mouths if the poor people aren't out buying a new cell phone cover every other week?
As someone who also signs the front of paychecks, a good chunk of my job is to motivate workers, to coach them up...to develop and maintain a solid work ethic regardless of pay. Most of my workers make minimum wage and all of the rest are underpaid due to the historical circumstances of my business, a highly competitive local market, and the economy.
In a perfect world, none of that would matter and all of them would work their asses off regardless. But the world ain't perfect.
a) There's a minority that are self motivated, kick ass everyday, and were probably raised that way.
b) There's a large majority that are "ok" but will always require more direction than the first group.
c) The rest I've learned to get rid of fairly quickly.
When an employee really holds my feet to the fire over pay and/or threatens to leave for a better paying job if I can't increase their wage, I have to break the news that 1) I would miss them, but would be very happy that they had found something better and 2) everyone is replaceable...including me...which of course is sometimes a shock. (See? I can talk the hardass conk boss game too!

)
I truly believe these two things. When I lose key people, I feel blessed for the time I did have them employed. But it has a huge affect on me personally. I'm the one who has to find someone capable of replacing them and pick up the slack in the mean time. It's also on me to be successful enough with my business to be able to afford better compensation for my highly productive workers (who ARE harder to replace) so I don't lose them. But at least it's getting better in this regard.
Anyhoo...
Investing in high quality workers increases efficiency, productivity, and retention. To steal from Chizzy's point, if the economy DOES turn around, some companies that are accustomed to under-paying quality workers are going take a hit when more and better jobs come calling.
The reality is...money motivates people.
And much of this disregard for the unclean, laboring, masses started under Reagan...also Thatcher.

Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:34 am
by kalm
Cluck U wrote:dbackjon wrote:Great post - this is what is ruining America
You really are an idiot.
This entire country has been scammed into buying unnecessary things...and then they complain they don't have enough money.
Seriously, are you saying people don't have enough money with which to live?
Try this...stop buying food at restaurants. Instead, buy basics and make meals. You will save a boatload of money on food (and "medicine"), you will be healthier, and feel better. Instead of paying $180/month for phone, internet, and cable TV (with the sports channels, HBO, and other unneeded crap), go to the library when you want to surf the net and check out some books that will educate you on things such as investing, good health, and any other subject you wish to learn. Drop the health club membership and walk around the nearest park. Stop spending money on cigarettes and beer. Don't ever buy a new car...you are just throwing money away. Take your money out of the typical bank and get yourself to a credit union - there is no reason to pay a bank fees to keep your money - and stay away from those check cashing places.
Stop renting...a huge waste of money. Move in with another group of people for a few years (friends, family, co-workers) to save money, keep your legs closed, learn to fix up the place instead of calling a $100/hour plumber/electrician (there are free books in the library that can help you learn and free instruction at Home Depot and other area places). Turn off the g-damned cell phone service that you don't NEED.
SAVE AND INVEST YOUR MONEY. Create your own generational wealth instead of wasting everything you have on crap while still wanting more.
Cripes, we have 18-year-old kids popping out babies and getting free housing and food stamps...and then they complain about not making enough at the local Burger King or Wal-Mart. As though they "deserve" to earn more so that they can keep up with those who made better choices. Are you kidding me?
Americans have been sold the American Dream of owning a house, or renting a "place of their own", at an early age, buying all sorts of unneeded gizmos so that they can keep up with the Joneses. What a crock of crap. Nobody needs a tenth of the stuff they consider "necessary."
Anyone can save money if they make the right choices...and make sacrifices with a long term goal in mind. But, ohhhhhhh no. To a Lib, it is criminal to make someone sacrifice consumer goods in order to plan out a better future.

I hate you Cluck...really!

Re: Capitalism =/= paying your employees as little as possib
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:37 am
by GannonFan
It's posts and threads and articles like this that just cement the fact that we are turning into a stupid, stupid country. And that's even before we adopt the Common Core and have test results showing how stupid we really are. This article just doesn't get it - life isn't going to be easy and simple where you just show up to work, spend 8 hours there, and get paid more than enough money to buy all the things you could ever want to have, regardless of the effort you put in. There's no getting around the fact that if you want more things in life, you need to work hard for it. We've fallen into the trap that everything should be easy and we don't need to bust it to do well. I'm not sure when that happened and when we, as a country, decided that hard work isn't necessary anymore, but it's becoming entrenched and many people are being shocked by the implications of not working hard anymore. Work hard in school, study, and then bust your hump when you get into the real world, and you won't be stuck writing articles about how big bad corporations should pay you more money simply because you want more money. And parents and families need to foster the atmosphere in their kids lives to have them be able to do that. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen enough and we end up with the houndawgs of the world trying to get enough malcontents together to take what they didn't work hard to earn. No one ever said life on this planet was easy or a cakewalk, so we should stop complaining that it isn't.