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Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:09 pm
by JohnStOnge
Am I correct in thinking that the Florida "Stand your Ground" law played no role in the Zimmerman thing? I think I posted about this before.
My understanding is that the defense in his trial did not invoke the "Stand your Ground" law. Also, the whole point of a "Stand your Gound" law is that you can use deadly force instead of retreating if retreat is possible. According to Zimmerman's story retreat was not possible. He was pinned down with Martin on top of him.
It was entirely a simple "self defense" case. "Stand your Ground" was not a factor at all.
So why are things happening like Holder railing against "Stand your Ground" laws and Stevie Wonder saying he won't go to States with "Stand your Ground" laws? IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FLORIDA'S "STAND YOUR GROUND" LAW.
At least that's my understanding. Am I missing something?
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:35 pm
by Col Hogan
No, you are not missing anything...just like all the anti-gun laws proposed after Sandy Hook would not have prevented that abomination...
It's just paranoid anti-gun politicians looking for points from the sheeple...
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:03 pm
by Bronco
BHO and Holder don't give a damn about Trayvon
It has always been about gun control with this gang
If he cared about young blacks getting cut down in their prime he would send in the national guard into Chicago
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:10 pm
by LeadBolt
They are playing on the emotional frustration of people who want to feel safe to further erode the ability of people to resist.
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:10 pm
by houndawg
JohnStOnge wrote:Am I correct in thinking that the Florida "Stand your Ground" law played no role in the Zimmerman thing? I think I posted about this before.
My understanding is that the defense in his trial did not invoke the "Stand your Ground" law. Also, the whole point of a "Stand your Gound" law is that you can use deadly force instead of retreating if retreat is possible. According to Zimmerman's story retreat was not possible. He was pinned down with Martin on top of him.
It was entirely a simple "self defense" case. "Stand your Ground" was not a factor at all.
So why are things happening like Holder railing against "Stand your Ground" laws and Stevie Wonder saying he won't go to States with "Stand your Ground" laws? IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FLORIDA'S "STAND YOUR GROUND" LAW.
At least that's my understanding. Am I missing something?
You're a day late, John-o. That was discussed yesterday. We've moved on.
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:25 am
by blueballs
You're right JSO...
I paid particular attention to Holder's stepping in a big pile of shit yesterday with his comment that SYG is bad because it expands the "concept" of self defense.
Memo to Holder: defending one's self is a basic human right, by whatever means necessary to protect life, liberty, and property- not a "concept."
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:00 am
by mrklean
JohnStOnge wrote:Am I correct in thinking that the Florida "Stand your Ground" law played no role in the Zimmerman thing? I think I posted about this before.
My understanding is that the defense in his trial did not invoke the "Stand your Ground" law. Also, the whole point of a "Stand your Gound" law is that you can use deadly force instead of retreating if retreat is possible. According to Zimmerman's story retreat was not possible. He was pinned down with Martin on top of him.
It was entirely a simple "self defense" case. "Stand your Ground" was not a factor at all.
So why are things happening like Holder railing against "Stand your Ground" laws and Stevie Wonder saying he won't go to States with "Stand your Ground" laws? IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FLORIDA'S "STAND YOUR GROUND" LAW.
At least that's my understanding. Am I missing something?
Self defense on a boy who was 150lbs on a good day.
Some people will belive in anything.
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:29 am
by YoUDeeMan
mrklean wrote:
Self defense on a boy who was 150lbs on a good day.
Some people will belive in anything.
Well, the police report indicated he was 160lbs...and he weighed 158lbs after some blood loss. So yeah, on a good day, Trayvon might have been 150lbs...but he was +158lbs on what turned out, for him, to be a bad day.
Anyway, when punks attack, attack back!
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:41 am
by AZGrizFan
mrklean wrote:JohnStOnge wrote:Am I correct in thinking that the Florida "Stand your Ground" law played no role in the Zimmerman thing? I think I posted about this before.
My understanding is that the defense in his trial did not invoke the "Stand your Ground" law. Also, the whole point of a "Stand your Gound" law is that you can use deadly force instead of retreating if retreat is possible. According to Zimmerman's story retreat was not possible. He was pinned down with Martin on top of him.
It was entirely a simple "self defense" case. "Stand your Ground" was not a factor at all.
So why are things happening like Holder railing against "Stand your Ground" laws and Stevie Wonder saying he won't go to States with "Stand your Ground" laws? IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FLORIDA'S "STAND YOUR GROUND" LAW.
At least that's my understanding. Am I missing something?
Self defense on a boy who was 150lbs on a good day.
Some people will belive in anything.
Never bring Skittles to a gun fight.
Re: Why the Focus on the
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:49 am
by D1B
Col Hogan wrote:No, you are not missing anything...just like all the anti-gun laws proposed after Sandy Hook would not have prevented that abomination...
It's just paranoid anti-gun politicians looking for points from the sheeple...
Holder is right. SYG laws further embolden closet homicidal psychopath racists like you Jizzfan.
Soon, we'll be reading about the 4yr. old black kid you decapitated with your 45 for getting too close to your grandkids in the park.
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:33 am
by ALPHAGRIZ1
AZGrizFan wrote:mrklean wrote:
Self defense on a boy who was 150lbs on a good day.
Some people will belive in anything.
Never bring Skittles to a gun fight.
Where have I heard that before?
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Re: Why the Focus on the
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:16 pm
by AZGrizFan
ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
Never bring Skittles to a gun fight.
Where have I heard that before?
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
You're a goddamned genius, Gump.
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:40 pm
by BDKJMU
mrklean wrote:JohnStOnge wrote:Am I correct in thinking that the Florida "Stand your Ground" law played no role in the Zimmerman thing? I think I posted about this before.
My understanding is that the defense in his trial did not invoke the "Stand your Ground" law. Also, the whole point of a "Stand your Gound" law is that you can use deadly force instead of retreating if retreat is possible. According to Zimmerman's story retreat was not possible. He was pinned down with Martin on top of him.
It was entirely a simple "self defense" case. "Stand your Ground" was not a factor at all.
So why are things happening like Holder railing against "Stand your Ground" laws and Stevie Wonder saying he won't go to States with "Stand your Ground" laws? IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FLORIDA'S "STAND YOUR GROUND" LAW.
At least that's my understanding. Am I missing something?
Self defense on a boy who was 150lbs on a good day.
Some people will belive in anything.
What, no protests or riots for you to go attend now?
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:59 pm
by kalm
BDKJMU wrote:mrklean wrote:
Self defense on a boy who was 150lbs on a good day.
Some people will belive in anything.
What, no protests or riots for you to go attend now?
I admire your ability to post with that white hood thingy on.
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:00 pm
by BDKJMU
kalm wrote:BDKJMU wrote:
What, no protests or riots for you to go attend now?
I admire your ability to post with that white hood thingy on.
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:20 pm
by kalm
BDKJMU wrote:kalm wrote:
I admire your ability to post with that white hood thingy on.
If you're insinuating that you spank it with that hood on while posting, I'm doubly impressed!
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:47 am
by LeadBolt
Since passage of the stand your ground law in Florida, the violent crime rate has DROPPED by 23%. If the US Dept of Justice (and their enabling protesters) had any integrity that's all they would need to stop attacking states rights again. Unfortunately their agenda has nothing to do with what works, only with what will take more of your rights away. The relentless M. O. for this administration.
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:30 am
by Ibanez
AZGrizFan wrote:mrklean wrote:
Self defense on a boy who was 150lbs on a good day.
Some people will belive in anything.
Never bring Skittles to a gun fight.
Exactly. Everyone knows that Skittles and Arizona Tea won't defend you.
You need a Mountain Dew and Snickers.
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:42 am
by Bronco
Blacks benefit from Florida ‘Stand Your Ground’ law at disproportionate rate
The Daily Caller ^ | 7/16/13 | Patrick Howley
African Americans benefit from Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” self-defense law at a rate far out of proportion to their presence in the state’s population, despite an assertion by Attorney General Eric Holder that repealing “Stand Your Ground” would help African Americans.
Black Floridians have made about a third of the state’s total “Stand Your Ground” claims in homicide cases, a rate nearly double the black percentage of Florida’s population. The majority of those claims have been successful, a success rate that exceeds that for Florida whites.
Nonetheless, prominent African Americans including Holder and “Ebony and Ivory” singer Stevie Wonder, who has vowed not to perform in the Sunshine State until the law is revoked, have made “Stand Your Ground” a central part of the Trayvon Martin controversy.
Read more:
http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/black ... z2ZJfWikaC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:36 pm
by JohnStOnge
Self defense on a boy who was 150lbs on a good day.
Some people will belive in anything.
There have been various estimates of Martin's weight. Apparently the police report had him at 160 pounds. See
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/polic ... -shooting/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The report notes that Martin was six feet tall when he died, compared with the 5-foot, 9-inch tall Zimmerman, the self-appointed neighborhood watchman who killed him after what he told police was a physical altercation that Martin started. (RELATED: TheDC’s complete coverage of Trayvon Martin)
Martin’s weight was recorded as 160 pounds. The report does not list Zimmerman’s weight.
But that's not the point anyway. The point is that Zimmerman's story is that he was pinned to the ground. If his story is true, he did not have the opportunity to retreat. That means the "stand your ground" law was not a factor. When there is no "stand your ground" law, you have to retreat if retreat is possible. Now a number of States have passed "stand your ground" laws to relieve people of the obligation to retreat.
Whether you believe Zimmerman or not, the story under question was one in which he had no opportunity to retreat. Thus the "stand your ground" law did not come into play.
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:57 pm
by BlueHen86
I agree that the jury got it right - there was not enough evidence to convict Zimmerman, but...
We don't know who started the fight between Zimmerman and Martin. From testimony there is reason to believe that Martin was winning the fight, but there is no testimony (other than Zimmerman's - and of course he is going to cover his ass) as to who started the fight. If Zimmerman started the fight (and it is possible that he did) then stand your ground should not apply to Zimmerman, but may apply to Martin.
Re: Why the Focus on the "Stand your Ground" law?
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:03 pm
by BlueHen86
JohnStOnge wrote:Self defense on a boy who was 150lbs on a good day.
Some people will belive in anything.
There have been various estimates of Martin's weight. Apparently the police report had him at 160 pounds. See
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/polic ... -shooting/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The report notes that Martin was six feet tall when he died, compared with the 5-foot, 9-inch tall Zimmerman, the self-appointed neighborhood watchman who killed him after what he told police was a physical altercation that Martin started. (RELATED: TheDC’s complete coverage of Trayvon Martin)
Martin’s weight was recorded as 160 pounds. The report does not list Zimmerman’s weight.
But that's not the point anyway. The point is that Zimmerman's story is that he was pinned to the ground.
If his story is true, he did not have the opportunity to retreat. That means the "stand your ground" law was not a factor. When there is no "stand your ground" law, you have to retreat if retreat is possible. Now a number of States have passed "stand your ground" laws to relieve people of the obligation to retreat.
Whether you believe Zimmerman or not, the story under question was one in which he had no opportunity to retreat. Thus the "stand your ground" law did not come into play.
And what if it is not...
What if Zimmerman initiated the physical contact, got his ass kicked, and then resorted to gunplay? I doubt if that would qualify as stand your ground.