Championship Subdivision Football | FCS Football | Stadiums | Blogs | Forums

Two top managers of the scandal-plagued Vatican bank resigned on Monday following the arrest of a high-ranking cleric with close ties to the financial institution, in the latest of a string of embarrassments for the Holy See.

Director Paolo Cipriani and deputy-director Massimo Tulli stepped down three days after the Vatican was rocked by the arrest of Monsignor Nunzio Scarano, who is accused of plotting with two other people to smuggle 20 million euros into Italy from Switzerland.

D1B wrote:It is not a good time for the church, on many fronts.

CAA Flagship wrote:

D1B wrote:It is not a good time for the church, on many fronts.

But the back of the church is where the action is.

D1B wrote:

CAA Flagship wrote: But the back of the church is where the action is.

Milwaukee Archdiocese just released, by court order, thousands of files documenting abuse cover-up and fraud.

Front page news across the nation today.

AZGrizFan wrote:

D1B wrote:
Milwaukee Archdiocese just released, by court order, thousands of files documenting abuse cover-up and fraud.

Front page news across the nation today.

Nope. Zimmerman trial is front page news.

JoltinJoe wrote:It's not gathering any real attention because the documents are surprisingly tame in comparison to the LA documents.

So over 80 years, the Milwaukee diocese had 45 pedophile priests. One is too many, but 45 over 80 years isn't really that many, given that pedophiles are drawn to positions where they will have contact with children.

Some reporters are trying to make an issue of Dolan's transfer of $57 million into a cemetery trust fund, but if you look at the documents in their totality, the money at issue was solicited for that use, and should have been segregated from general funds in the first place.

I get angry when money which should be used for charitable purposes winds up in the hands of law school class cabooses like Jeffrey Anderson. All you need to do is sell your soul and you can be rich too.

JoltinJoe wrote:It's not gathering any real attention because the documents are surprisingly tame in comparison to the LA documents.

So over 80 years, the Milwaukee diocese had 45 pedophile priests. One is too many, but 45 over 80 years isn't really that many, given that pedophiles are drawn to positions where they will have contact with children.

Some reporters are trying to make an issue of Dolan's transfer of $57 million into a cemetery trust fund, but if you look at the documents in their totality, the money at issue was solicited for that use, and should have been segregated from general funds in the first place.

I get angry when money which should be used for charitable purposes winds up in the hands of law school class cabooses like Jeffrey Anderson. All you need to do is sell your soul and you can be rich too.

Beardown wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:It's not gathering any real attention because the documents are surprisingly tame in comparison to the LA documents.

So over 80 years, the Milwaukee diocese had 45 pedophile priests. One is too many, but 45 over 80 years isn't really that many, given that pedophiles are drawn to positions where they will have contact with children.

Some reporters are trying to make an issue of Dolan's transfer of $57 million into a cemetery trust fund, but if you look at the documents in their totality, the money at issue was solicited for that use, and should have been segregated from general funds in the first place.

I get angry when money which should be used for charitable purposes winds up in the hands of law school class cabooses like Jeffrey Anderson. All you need to do is sell your soul and you can be rich too.

So what does the church do about this? Honest question.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Beardown wrote:

So what does the church do about this? Honest question.

What can you do? Pay money so surviving victims can be compensated and treated, and reform procedures so that the scandal isn't repeated.

But I don't think we should pretend that what Church leaders did was something unique to the Church. The Church got caught because it kept records about what it did. If those records had not been maintained, we'd have no idea what happened.

Other organizations have done the same things and just did not document their actions.

D1B wrote: 45 were caught or 45 had their records released. Factoring in the secrecy of the church, that the church was investigator/judge/and jury for 80 years, a close knit culture that supported pedophelia in every way from the laity to the pope, a sophisticated network of operatives whose sole purpose was to silence victims, pay offs to pedophile priests to leave the church and be silent, a submissive laity who actually protected the church, young or handicapped victims who were easy to silence and villify, billions in financial and other resources specifically employed in an elaborate cover up, Vatican inaction, crimes happening before the age of ready information, and so on....There were hundreds, if not thousands of pedophiles filtering through a diocese of that size.

D1B wrote: How long did it take for the Vatican to properly discipline a serial pedophile priest? Years to decades, sometimes never.

How long did it take for the Vatican to approve an asset transfer specifically orchestrated to protect assets from victim of sexual abuse? Less than one month. [/qoute]

This is a bit of a red herring. It's not like these priests were hanging around the schools, or otherwise engaged in active ministry, while the Vatican decided their appeals. In fact, the case could be made that society was better off with these pedophile priests being under Church supervision, serving time in monasteries or retreats. The moment these priests are laicized, they are returned to society and can pose a greater threat to children.

JoltinJoe wrote:

D1B wrote: 45 were caught or 45 had their records released. Factoring in the secrecy of the church, that the church was investigator/judge/and jury for 80 years, a close knit culture that supported pedophelia in every way from the laity to the pope, a sophisticated network of operatives whose sole purpose was to silence victims, pay offs to pedophile priests to leave the church and be silent, a submissive laity who actually protected the church, young or handicapped victims who were easy to silence and villify, billions in financial and other resources specifically employed in an elaborate cover up, Vatican inaction, crimes happening before the age of ready information, and so on....There were hundreds, if not thousands of pedophiles filtering through a diocese of that size.

The number is 45, according to the records. Beyond that, it is conjecture.

D1B wrote: How long did it take for the Vatican to properly discipline a serial pedophile priest? Years to decades, sometimes never.

How long did it take for the Vatican to approve an asset transfer specifically orchestrated to protect assets from victim of sexual abuse? Less than one month. [/qoute]

This is a bit of a red herring. It's not like these priests were hanging around the schools, or otherwise engaged in active ministry, while the Vatican decided their appeals. In fact, the case could be made that society was better off with these pedophile priests being under Church supervision, serving time in monasteries or retreats. The moment these priests are laicized, they are returned to society and can pose a greater threat to children.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Beardown wrote:

So what does the church do about this? Honest question.

What can you do? Pay money so surviving victims can be compensated and treated, and reform procedures so that the scandal isn't repeated.

But I don't think we should pretend that what Church leaders did was something unique to the Church. The Church got caught because it kept records about what it did. If those records had not been maintained, we'd have no idea what happened.

Other organizations have done the same things and just did not document their actions.

JoltinJoe wrote:It's not gathering any real attention because the documents are surprisingly tame in comparison to the LA documents.

So over 80 years, the Milwaukee diocese had 45 pedophile priests. One is too many, but 45 over 80 years isn't really that many, given that pedophiles are drawn to positions where they will have contact with children.

Some reporters are trying to make an issue of Dolan's transfer of $57 million into a cemetery trust fund, but if you look at the documents in their totality, the money at issue was solicited for that use, and should have been segregated from general funds in the first place.

I get angry when money which should be used for charitable purposes winds up in the hands of law school class cabooses like Jeffrey Anderson. All you need to do is sell your soul and you can be rich too.

JoltinJoe wrote:
Some reporters are trying to make an issue of Dolan's transfer of $57 million into a cemetery trust fund, but if you look at the documents in their totality, the money at issue was solicited for that use, and should have been segregated from general funds in the first place.

grizzaholic wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
What can you do? Pay money so surviving victims can be compensated and treated, and reform procedures so that the scandal isn't repeated.

But I don't think we should pretend that what Church leaders did was something unique to the Church. The Church got caught because it kept records about what it did. If those records had not been maintained, we'd have no idea what happened.

Other organizations have done the same things and just did not document their actions.

So the only blame the church should be held accountable for is they kept too good of records. Got it.

They will learn from this and won't keep records in the future.

JoltinJoe wrote: This is a bit of a red herring. It's not like these priests were hanging around the schools, or otherwise engaged in active ministry, while the Vatican decided their appeals. In fact, the case could be made that society was better off with these pedophile priests being under Church supervision, serving time in monasteries or retreats. The moment these priests are laicized, they are returned to society and can pose a greater threat to children.

Documents also show the Milwaukee archdiocese transferring pedophile priests instead of removing them from the church.

In one such case, Reverend Raymond Adamsky received counseling and was transferred to 11 parishes in 34 years before being sent to serve as nursing home chaplain with restrictions on contact with minors, after he was accused of molestation in 1961 and then again in 1983, the documents show.

The documents also detail the Milwaukee archdiocese, on a regular basis, requested priests accused of abuse be laicized, a process in which they are stripped of their powers and duties.

As part of their laicization, priests such as O'Brien were paid $10,000 to start the process and $10,000 during the process and, in some cases, $1,250 per month for health and dental insurance, according to the documents. (Reporting by Brendan O'Brien and Geoffrey Davidian; Editing by Mary Wisniewski, Greg McCune and Lisa Shumaker)

Copyright 2013 Thomson Reuters

ITALY
Reuters Thu Jul 4, 2013

By Philip Pullella

SALERNO, Italy (Reuters) - Even though he was known to like to live well, police said they were startled when they entered Monsignor Nunzio Scarano's apartment after he called them one night in January to report a burglary.

The apartment, in one of Salerno's most up-market neighborhoods in the city center, was huge, with art lining the walls and hallways divided by Roman-style columns.

Scarano, a Vatican official with close ties to the Vatican bank and who is now in Rome's Queen of Heaven jail, had called police to report that thieves had stolen part of his art collection.

Interviews with two key chief investigators in different judicial and police departments in Salerno, in southern Italy, and police pictures of the apartment viewed by Reuters give the most detailed picture to date of Scarano's wealth.

The investigators disclosed that the trove of stolen goods estimated to be worth up to 6 million euro ($7.82 million) included six works by Giorgio de Chirico, one by Renato Guttuso, one attributed to Marc Chagall and pieces of religious art.

"We asked ourselves how did this monsignor come to own this place and possess these expensive works of art," said a senior investigator in the southern Italian city who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity...



The investigators asked tax police to dig into what Italian investigators call someone's "financial patrimony" - bank accounts, real estate, and stocks. The trail led to the Vatican bank.

The 700 square-meter (7,500 square feet) luxury apartment on Via Romualdo Guarna was not the only piece of property that Scarano owned, either alone or jointly. Investigators discovered that he was part owner of three Salerno real estate companies.

But, most significantly, the investigators discovered that Scarano had withdrawn 560,000 euros in cash last year in one transaction from the Vatican bank, officially known as the Institute for Works of Religion (IOR).

"DON 500 EUROS"

Scarano, well-connected in local high society circles, then divided the cash, most of it in 500 euro notes, among nearly 56 friends. The Italian media has dubbed Scarano "Don 500 euros" because it was apparently his preferred denomination.

Each friend gave him a cashier's check drawn on Italian banks. He then took all the checks to a bank in Salerno and paid off a mortgage on his apartment, which investigators said he had purchased for about 1.7 million euros.

Scarano told investigators that he took the money out of his Vatican bank account because he wanted to pay off his mortgage in order to sell his apartment at a profit and use the proceeds to build a home for the terminally ill. Lawyer Sica also said this was his client's intention.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Beardown wrote:

So what does the church do about this? Honest question.

But I don't think we should pretend that what Church leaders did was something unique to the Church. The Church got caught because it kept records about what it did. If those records had not been maintained, we'd have no idea what happened.

Other organizations have done the same things and just did not document their actions.

CALIFORNIA
Daily Democrat

A judge refused Wednesday to exclude a former Woodland priest's admissions of child molestation to church officials, according to the Sacramento Bee.

The Rev. Uriel Ojeda -- former parochial vicar at Our Lady of Mercy parish in Redding -- is facing seven counts of molesting a girl under the age of 14 in Sacramento and Shasta counties. Ojeda also served as a priest at Woodland's Holy Rosary Catholic Church from 2007 to 2009, when the counts allegedly took place.

Ojeda had tried to have the statements ruled inadmissable on grounds he made them under the protection of a clergy-penitent privilege, according to the Bee. Ojeda said it never crossed his mind that his discussions about his alleged misconduct might be turned over to police.