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The almost universal lack of cooperation re Snowden has its roots in the enormous damage sustained by US credibility and prestige from two unnecessary wars. What happened to going it alone with or without "old Europe"? Compare, contrast, discuss.

I had Mexican food for lunch. Pizza last night. Steak Saturday night. Probably chicken with Hawaiian flavored marinade tonight. I love 'merica.

I'm willing to bet that he ends up in a country that wouldn't cooperate even if we had never invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Most countries know that we are very cooperative when it comes to extraditing their citizens from the US. Heck, we even send China's thought criminals back to them (see: Chen Guangcheng).

houndawg wrote:The almost universal lack of cooperation re Snowden has its roots in the enormous damage sustained by US credibility and prestige from two unnecessary wars. What happened to going it alone with or without "old Europe"? Compare, contrast, discuss.

Nice try prefacing with an arguable premise.

Are you saying that Russia, China, Ecuador and Cuba would be swapping spit with us if not for Iraq and Afghanistan?

Here's a news flash for you: EVERY contentious thing those countries (especially China and Russia) do to poke us in the eye over things like this is a direct result of the fact that all of our policy treatment with those countries ALWAYS has human rights criticisms embedded. The latest adoption issue in Russia? Because we have moved to penalize and freeze the assets of human right violators in Russia. China bristles at us annually over DoS's human rights and religious freedom reports.

Russia and China beat their drums in the UN over Iraq and Afghanistan as a matter of course, but in reality they were more than happy to see us weaken ourselves there. If you want to see what happens when Russia DOES actually oppose US interventionism, look no further than Syria. Putin made it very clear what Russia's position was when he parked a cruiser in the port there.

China and Russia do one thing well that we have forgotten how to do: they act purely in their own interests and nobody else's. That they are not cooperating on Snowden has everything to do with calling us hypocrites over human rights and precisely nothing to do with Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, now that China and Russia are both profiting heavily from our adventures in the Mideast I'd they they are probably wishing we'd stay there indefinitely.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I didn't realize there was a time we were so buddy-buddy with Russia or China that they would just turn over people to us. I don't see what Iraq and Afghanistan have to do with any of that.

I thought this was about slave reparations.

GannonFan wrote:I didn't realize there was a time we were so buddy-buddy with Russia or China that they would just turn over people to us.

There must have been or we wouldn't have handed over seven people to Russia in the past two years.

CID1990 wrote:

houndawg wrote:The almost universal lack of cooperation re Snowden has its roots in the enormous damage sustained by US credibility and prestige from two unnecessary wars. What happened to going it alone with or without "old Europe"? Compare, contrast, discuss.

Nice try prefacing with an arguable premise.

Are you saying that Russia, China, Ecuador and Cuba would be swapping spit with us if not for Iraq and Afghanistan?

Here's a news flash for you: EVERY contentious thing those countries (especially China and Russia) do to poke us in the eye over things like this is a direct result of the fact that all of our policy treatment with those countries ALWAYS has human rights criticisms embedded. The latest adoption issue in Russia? Because we have moved to penalize and freeze the assets of human right violators in Russia. China bristles at us annually over DoS's human rights and religious freedom reports.

Russia and China beat their drums in the UN over Iraq and Afghanistan as a matter of course, but in reality they were more than happy to see us weaken ourselves there. If you want to see what happens when Russia DOES actually oppose US interventionism, look no further than Syria. Putin made it very clear what Russia's position was when he parked a cruiser in the port there.

China and Russia do one thing well that we have forgotten how to do: they act purely in their own interests and nobody else's. That they are not cooperating on Snowden has everything to do with calling us hypocrites over human rights and precisely nothing to do with Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, now that China and Russia are both profiting heavily from our adventures in the Mideast I'd they they are probably wishing we'd stay there indefinitely.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I don't think they want us to stay in Afghanistan given the heavy deposits of rare elements in the south west part of the country.

houndawg wrote:

GannonFan wrote:I didn't realize there was a time we were so buddy-buddy with Russia or China that they would just turn over people to us.

There must have been or we wouldn't have handed over seven people to Russia in the past two years.

That was called a trade, HD.


Sent from the center of the universe.

houndawg wrote:

CID1990 wrote:
Nice try prefacing with an arguable premise.

Are you saying that Russia, China, Ecuador and Cuba would be swapping spit with us if not for Iraq and Afghanistan?

Here's a news flash for you: EVERY contentious thing those countries (especially China and Russia) do to poke us in the eye over things like this is a direct result of the fact that all of our policy treatment with those countries ALWAYS has human rights criticisms embedded. The latest adoption issue in Russia? Because we have moved to penalize and freeze the assets of human right violators in Russia. China bristles at us annually over DoS's human rights and religious freedom reports.

Russia and China beat their drums in the UN over Iraq and Afghanistan as a matter of course, but in reality they were more than happy to see us weaken ourselves there. If you want to see what happens when Russia DOES actually oppose US interventionism, look no further than Syria. Putin made it very clear what Russia's position was when he parked a cruiser in the port there.

China and Russia do one thing well that we have forgotten how to do: they act purely in their own interests and nobody else's. That they are not cooperating on Snowden has everything to do with calling us hypocrites over human rights and precisely nothing to do with Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, now that China and Russia are both profiting heavily from our adventures in the Mideast I'd they they are probably wishing we'd stay there indefinitely.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I don't think they want us to stay in Afghanistan given the heavy deposits of rare elements in the south west part of the country.

China is already there exploiting those resources. There are 2 Chinese mining companies there as we speak. They enjoy several advantages as long as we remain there.

First, they negotiate openly with the Taliban over passage rights. China is seen as being a foil to the US, because they are relatively unscrupulous as to who they deal with. They are also in a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" type situation there.

Second, the Taliban and China have colluded in the past and are currently doing so over the disposition of Uighur fighters in Afghanistan.

China provides monetary support to Afghans who are in positions to grant them security and right of passage, as well as immunity from mujaheddin attacks.

As long as we are in Afghanistan, it is chuck wagon for the Chinese. When we leave, they will then start being viewed as infidel foreigners because they'll be the only ones around. However, China has no problem paying even the most heinous people to allow them carte blanche. Back in the day, America also understood this most basic tenet of foreign relations: that there are no allies; only interests.


Sent from the center of the universe.

houndawg wrote:The almost universal lack of cooperation re Snowden has its roots in the enormous damage sustained by US credibility and prestige from two unnecessary wars. What happened to going it alone with or without "old Europe"? Compare, contrast, discuss.

CID just schooled you.

I hope Snowden gets to Ecuador, lives a healthy and long life...and reveals even more stuff. I'm not worried about security...Obushma, in an attempt to make himself seem smart and in control, has already revealed FAR more about our foreign security operations/capabilities than everyone else combined. Jackazz.

I usually don't give a crap about how we eliminate our enemies. If you are out to hurt us, you deserve to die by any means possible.

But our gubmint is out of control and Obama is pushing Big Brother ahead at a frightening pace. Libs should be furious at Barrack...but Libs are freaking mindless sheep who want to be coddled and controlled by, "good ol' uncle Gov, " so anything BO does gets a pass.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013 ... order?lite" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



"He has not crossed the Russian border," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told a joint news conference with Algeria's foreign minister. We consider the attempts to put blame on the Russian side ... absolutely groundless and unacceptable."

China also expressed anger at Washington’s accusation that it had not acted on an extradition request.

"The U.S. side has no reason to call into question the Hong Kong government's handling of affairs according to law," China foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said at a regular briefing, according to Reuters. "The United States' criticism of China's central government is baseless. China absolutely cannot accept it."