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1st reported today by Wa Po:

"U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage in leaks about NSA surveillance programs

Federal prosecutors have filed a sealed criminal complaint against Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who leaked a trove of documents about top-secret surveillance programs, and the United States has asked Hong Kong to detain him on a provisional arrest warrant, according to U.S. officials.

Snowden was charged with espionage, theft and conversion of government property, said the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about the case.

The complaint was filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, a jurisdiction where Snowden’s former employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, is headquartered and a district with a long track record of prosecuting cases with national security implications.

A Justice Department spokeswoman declined to comment.........(continues)......."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope there's major protests to this; I'll definitely be a part of 'em if I can.

Snowden is AN AMERICAN HERO! I hope wherever he is, he can lead a peaceful life there. FUCK AMERICA!

Snowden was a whistleblower with the NSA program but then he kept spilling beans that had nothing to do with domestic spying. At that point he did in fact become a traitor.


Sent from the center of the universe.

CID1990 wrote:Snowden was a whistleblower with the NSA program but then he kept spilling beans that had nothing to do with domestic spying. At that point he did in fact become a traitor.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Traitor is about as meaningful a term as terrorist theses days. You could easily label Obama as both.

kalm wrote:

CID1990 wrote:Snowden was a whistleblower with the NSA program but then he kept spilling beans that had nothing to do with domestic spying. At that point he did in fact become a traitor.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Traitor is about as meaningful a term as terrorist theses days. You could easily label Obama as both.

That may be, but Snowden has released a lot of info: some of it involved domestic spying, but some of it also involved foreign intel efforts. There is a bright line between the two, and Snowden crossed the line.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I think either believing Snowden to be a hero or a traitor at this point is a bit premature. Granted, his revelations after just whistleblowing are concerning, but we're far from knowing the full story on this guy yet. Plenty more to hear about this guy.

CID1990 wrote:

kalm wrote:
Traitor is about as meaningful a term as terrorist theses days. You could easily label Obama as both.

That may be, but Snowden has released a lot of info: some of it involved domestic spying, but some of it also involved foreign intel efforts. There is a bright line between the two, and Snowden crossed the line.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I don't disagree....and he probably needs to be prosecuted for this.

They're doing a great job of keeping the focus on Snowden and away from what our so-called leaders are up to.

I would be much more inclined to be supportive of him if he had stopped after releasing the details on the NSA and PRISM.

Plenty of people think even that alone merits him being charged under the Espionage Act, but I would caution that this is a very slippery slope. The Espionage Act was intended to thwart spying for foreign governments. PRISM was initially intended to monitor commo for potential terrorist activity, and that is appropriate, but we have already seen how many people are more than willing to stretch the definition of terrorism. Many very prominent and influential people have suggested that the Tea Party is a terrorist organization. The same goes for the Occupy movement. This is still America and you still need warrants to intercept the letters and phone calls and emails of Americans. If we get too comfortable with proscribing the rights Americans to exercise their rights of association and peaceful assembly by calling it potential terrorism, then it is but a tiny leap for government officials to decide that warrantless snooping on Americans is appropriate.

I am afraid, however, that case against Snowden will be about the NSA leak, and NOT about the other things he has revealed about our intel activities concerning China. The reason for this is that his claims about hacking the Chinese do not seem credible because he does not appear to have any details, other than to say it is being done. Secondly, many officials have come out saying that Snowden in no way had access to that kind of info (of course that is what they would HAVE to say). If he truly revealed actual methods and activities to the Chinese or others, then he should certainly be prosecuted. However, if they successfully go after him over the domestic snooping then we should all be very worried about that. I fail to see how it can successfully be argued that it aided America's enemies, when even the dumbest jihadi in Yemen knows that Uncle Sam is listening to him already. The surprise is that Uncle Sam is also listening to his own people without warrants, and revealing THAT is not aiding the "enemy".


Sent from the center of the universe.

CID1990 wrote:I would be much more inclined to be supportive of him if he had stopped after releasing the details on the NSA and PRISM.

Plenty of people think even that alone merits him being charged under the Espionage Act, but I would caution that this is a very slippery slope. The Espionage Act was intended to thwart spying for foreign governments. PRISM was initially intended to monitor commo for potential terrorist activity, and that is appropriate, but we have already seen how many people are more than willing to stretch the definition of terrorism. Many very prominent and influential people have suggested that the Tea Party is a terrorist organization. The same goes for the Occupy movement. This is still America and you still need warrants to intercept the letters and phone calls and emails of Americans. If we get too comfortable with proscribing the rights Americans to exercise their rights of association and peaceful assembly by calling it potential terrorism, then it is but a tiny leap for government officials to decide that warrantless snooping on Americans is appropriate.

I am afraid, however, that case against Snowden will be about the NSA leak, and NOT about the other things he has revealed about our intel activities concerning China. The reason for this is that his claims about hacking the Chinese do not seem credible because he does not appear to have any details, other than to say it is being done. Secondly, many officials have come out saying that Snowden in no way had access to that kind of info (of course that is what they would HAVE to say). If he truly revealed actual methods and activities to the Chinese or others, then he should certainly be prosecuted. However, if they successfully go after him over the domestic snooping then we should all be very worried about that. I fail to see how it can successfully be argued that it aided America's enemies, when even the dumbest jihadi in Yemen knows that Uncle Sam is listening to him already. The surprise is that Uncle Sam is also listening to his own people without warrants, and revealing THAT is not aiding the "enemy".


Sent from the center of the universe.

Good post.

CID1990 wrote:I would be much more inclined to be supportive of him if he had stopped after releasing the details on the NSA and PRISM.

Plenty of people think even that alone merits him being charged under the Espionage Act, but I would caution that this is a very slippery slope. The Espionage Act was intended to thwart spying for foreign governments. PRISM was initially intended to monitor commo for potential terrorist activity, and that is appropriate, but we have already seen how many people are more than willing to stretch the definition of terrorism. Many very prominent and influential people have suggested that the Tea Party is a terrorist organization. The same goes for the Occupy movement. This is still America and you still need warrants to intercept the letters and phone calls and emails of Americans. If we get too comfortable with proscribing the rights Americans to exercise their rights of association and peaceful assembly by calling it potential terrorism, then it is but a tiny leap for government officials to decide that warrantless snooping on Americans is appropriate.

I am afraid, however, that case against Snowden will be about the NSA leak, and NOT about the other things he has revealed about our intel activities concerning China. The reason for this is that his claims about hacking the Chinese do not seem credible because he does not appear to have any details, other than to say it is being done. Secondly, many officials have come out saying that Snowden in no way had access to that kind of info (of course that is what they would HAVE to say). If he truly revealed actual methods and activities to the Chinese or others, then he should certainly be prosecuted. However, if they successfully go after him over the domestic snooping then we should all be very worried about that. I fail to see how it can successfully be argued that it aided America's enemies, when even the dumbest jihadi in Yemen knows that Uncle Sam is listening to him already. The surprise is that Uncle Sam is also listening to his own people without warrants, and revealing THAT is not aiding the "enemy".


Sent from the center of the universe.

Oh, I think they've already decided its appropriate. Next step is to make it legal. Which they should since the only reason were free to have this conversation is that already dozens of terrorist plots have been foiled by illegal wire taps.

houndawg wrote:

CID1990 wrote:I would be much more inclined to be supportive of him if he had stopped after releasing the details on the NSA and PRISM.

Plenty of people think even that alone merits him being charged under the Espionage Act, but I would caution that this is a very slippery slope. The Espionage Act was intended to thwart spying for foreign governments. PRISM was initially intended to monitor commo for potential terrorist activity, and that is appropriate, but we have already seen how many people are more than willing to stretch the definition of terrorism. Many very prominent and influential people have suggested that the Tea Party is a terrorist organization. The same goes for the Occupy movement. This is still America and you still need warrants to intercept the letters and phone calls and emails of Americans. If we get too comfortable with proscribing the rights Americans to exercise their rights of association and peaceful assembly by calling it potential terrorism, then it is but a tiny leap for government officials to decide that warrantless snooping on Americans is appropriate.

I am afraid, however, that case against Snowden will be about the NSA leak, and NOT about the other things he has revealed about our intel activities concerning China. The reason for this is that his claims about hacking the Chinese do not seem credible because he does not appear to have any details, other than to say it is being done. Secondly, many officials have come out saying that Snowden in no way had access to that kind of info (of course that is what they would HAVE to say). If he truly revealed actual methods and activities to the Chinese or others, then he should certainly be prosecuted. However, if they successfully go after him over the domestic snooping then we should all be very worried about that. I fail to see how it can successfully be argued that it aided America's enemies, when even the dumbest jihadi in Yemen knows that Uncle Sam is listening to him already. The surprise is that Uncle Sam is also listening to his own people without warrants, and revealing THAT is not aiding the "enemy".


Sent from the center of the universe.

Oh, I think they've already decided its appropriate. Next step is to make it legal. Which they should since the only reason were free to have this conversation is that already dozens of terrorist plots have been foiled by illegal wire taps.

That is a little slice of liberty that I and many others are just not ready to give up in the name of safety from what is ultimately not much of a threat to begin with.

There is no issue with getting a warrant to tap a line or an email account when a known terrorist or organization is communicating with that person. PRISM is a dragnet and that should concern everybody. I wish this had been discovered on Bush's watch- then there would be 100% consensus against it.


Sent from the center of the universe.

CID1990 wrote:

houndawg wrote:

Oh, I think they've already decided its appropriate. Next step is to make it legal. Which they should since the only reason were free to have this conversation is that already dozens of terrorist plots have been foiled by illegal wire taps.

That is a little slice of liberty that I and many others are just not ready to give up in the name of safety from what is ultimately not much of a threat to begin with.

There is no issue with getting a warrant to tap a line or an email account when a known terrorist or organization is communicating with that person. PRISM is a dragnet and that should concern everybody. I wish this had been discovered on Bush's watch- then there would be 100% consensus against it.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I concur with the sentiment, but what you and I think doesn't matter in the slightest. The technology exists, ergo it will be used to its fullest extent regardless of what a bunch of writing on paper says. Probably be some lip service to the Constitution for a while but the United States as those of us of a certain age remember them are gone, and to quote the Grateful Dead, "...nothings gonna bring him back.."

Looks like Snowden has been granted temporary asylum by Russia for 1 year so now he can roam around Russia. Let's see how the U.S. responds if we do. By that, I am not talking about grabbing or killing him (because that is just too obvious) but I mean more diplomatically and see if we try to put any pressure on them

Kerry and Hagel are supposedly meeting with their Russian counterparts next week in advance of the G20 summit. Would love to be a fly on that wall.

tribe_pride wrote:Looks like Snowden has been granted temporary asylum by Russia for 1 year so now he can roam around Russia. Let's see how the U.S. responds if we do. By that, I am not talking about grabbing or killing him (because that is just too obvious) but I mean more diplomatically and see if we try to put any pressure on them

Kerry and Hagel are supposedly meeting with their Russian counterparts next week in advance of the G20 summit. Would love to be a fly on that wall.

I feel bad for the winter olympians, as this raises the chance of a boycott. Messiah is also supposed to have a summit with Pootin later this year which is also in jeopardy.

93henfan wrote:

tribe_pride wrote:Looks like Snowden has been granted temporary asylum by Russia for 1 year so now he can roam around Russia. Let's see how the U.S. responds if we do. By that, I am not talking about grabbing or killing him (because that is just too obvious) but I mean more diplomatically and see if we try to put any pressure on them

Kerry and Hagel are supposedly meeting with their Russian counterparts next week in advance of the G20 summit. Would love to be a fly on that wall.

I feel bad for the winter olympians, as this raises the chance of a boycott. Messiah is also supposed to have a summit with Pootin later this year which is also in jeopardy.

If we don't have a chance to avenge that heartbreaker against the canucks, Ima flip shit.

93henfan wrote:

tribe_pride wrote:Looks like Snowden has been granted temporary asylum by Russia for 1 year so now he can roam around Russia. Let's see how the U.S. responds if we do. By that, I am not talking about grabbing or killing him (because that is just too obvious) but I mean more diplomatically and see if we try to put any pressure on them

Kerry and Hagel are supposedly meeting with their Russian counterparts next week in advance of the G20 summit. Would love to be a fly on that wall.

I feel bad for the winter olympians, as this raises the chance of a boycott. Messiah is also supposed to have a summit with Pootin later this year which is also in jeopardy.

Things that were going on in 1980 were very different than this. And I doubt this would lead to a boycott. Back in 1980, there were 65 countries that did not participate (many because of the boycott reasons). In 1984, 15-20 countries did not participate because of boycott reasons. This would be just us which while are powerful would make us look very foolish and backfire on us in my opinion

I know Senator Graham brought it up but that is just political posturing. The USOC already stated that it would not support a boycott.

Komrad Snowdenski, welcome to the Urinals! Er, Urals!

tribe_pride wrote:Kerry and Hagel are supposedly meeting with their Russian counterparts next week in advance of the G20 summit. Would love to be a fly on that wall.

If you were that fly

what you would see would be representatives of a country who know how to represent nothing but their own country's interests versus representatives of another country who think diplomacy is trying to be friends with everybody.

What you would see is naïveté on a grand scale by a couple guts who would know better if they had not sold their souls for advancement and promotion long ago.

Whoever Putin sends in that room will eat their lunch with a side of borscht.

CID1990 wrote:

tribe_pride wrote:Kerry and Hagel are supposedly meeting with their Russian counterparts next week in advance of the G20 summit. Would love to be a fly on that wall.

If you were that fly

what you would see would be representatives of a country who know how to represent nothing but their own country's interests versus representatives of another country who think diplomacy is trying to be friends with everybody.

What you would see is naïveté on a grand scale by a couple guts who would know better if they had not sold their souls for advancement and promotion long ago.

Whoever Putin sends in that room will eat their lunch with a side of borscht.

This. Sadly, this. When did this country chop off its balls?

November, 2000.

93henfan wrote:

tribe_pride wrote:Looks like Snowden has been granted temporary asylum by Russia for 1 year so now he can roam around Russia. Let's see how the U.S. responds if we do. By that, I am not talking about grabbing or killing him (because that is just too obvious) but I mean more diplomatically and see if we try to put any pressure on them

Kerry and Hagel are supposedly meeting with their Russian counterparts next week in advance of the G20 summit. Would love to be a fly on that wall.

I feel bad for the winter olympians, as this raises the chance of a boycott. Messiah is also supposed to have a summit with Pootin later this year which is also in jeopardy.

Well wih a boycott at least the homos from the US wouln't have to worry about being arrested....

houndawg wrote:November, 2000.

Right.

ASUMountaineer wrote:

houndawg wrote:November, 2000.

Right.

Yeah, Bush Jr. had balls. Unfortunately, he did not have a brain. Now we have a president with neither.