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And I support that. We're eventually going to need something to replace gasoline and/or diesel with something else. We will run out. And in historical terms it won't be that long. Won't be in my lifetime and probably not within any of yours. But it will happen and our civilization can't start working on developing a replacement too soon.

And to me this is a thing government should be doing. I'd rather see money spent on research like this than on programs for taking care of individual people's needs. It's a "global" thing to benefit the civilization as a whole.

Don't share motivations such as stopping climate change as I don't think that's not going to happen regardless of what we do and also don't buy the claims that things will necessarily be worse on balance if the climate changes as predicted. And I don't think the climate will change as predicted. Have no predictions of my own as to how what really happens will deviate from the projections but I'm very confident there will be substantial deivations. Surprises that no one is anticipating.

But that doesn't matter. The civilization needs to be working on alternatives to fossil fuels; preferably renewable ones.

We can't afford this.

kalm wrote:We can't afford this.

Sure we can. It's White House tours that we can't afford.

CitadelGrad wrote:

kalm wrote:We can't afford this.

Sure we can. It's White House tours that we can't afford.

We need to privatize those...make some money off them so we can lower taxes and pay down the debt.

kalm wrote:We can't afford this.

When has that ever been a problem? We're expert at spending money that we don't have making the debt a problem for future generations to deal with. The least we can do is spend on things that might help future generations.

BlueHen86 wrote:

kalm wrote:We can't afford this.

When has that ever been a problem? We're expert at spending money that we don't have making the debt a problem for future generations to deal with. The least we can do is spend on things that might help future generations.

Get outta here with that socialist crap. The free market built our freeways, canals, and scientific medical discoveries. The government should NOT be in the business of picking winners and losers. If alt energy was so great it would have already beat out oil.

Wind and solar.

Pwns wrote:Wind and solar.

Exactly!

Next thing Obama's gonna suggest is going back to the water wheel!

kalm wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:
When has that ever been a problem? We're expert at spending money that we don't have making the debt a problem for future generations to deal with. The least we can do is spend on things that might help future generations.

Get outta here with that socialist crap. The free market built our freeways, canals, and scientific medical discoveries. The government should NOT be in the business of picking winners and losers. If alt energy was so great it would have already beat out oil.

It's a strange day when I find myself agreeing with JSO and disagreeing with you.

BlueHen86 wrote:

kalm wrote:
Get outta here with that socialist crap. The free market built our freeways, canals, and scientific medical discoveries. The government should NOT be in the business of picking winners and losers. If alt energy was so great it would have already beat out oil.

It's a strange day when I find myself agreeing with JSO and disagreeing with you.

BlueHen86 wrote:

kalm wrote:
Get outta here with that socialist crap. The free market built our freeways, canals, and scientific medical discoveries. The government should NOT be in the business of picking winners and losers. If alt energy was so great it would have already beat out oil.

It's a strange day when I find myself agreeing with JSO and disagreeing with you.

kalm is having a good day landing some fish.

Trout season opens up in a month here in Delaware...woo-hoo!

Cluck U wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:

It's a strange day when I find myself agreeing with JSO and disagreeing with you.

kalm is having a good day landing some fish.

Trout season opens up in a month here in Delaware...woo-hoo!

It helps when the fish are willing.

I haven't been on much the last few months, I've got a lot of "catching" up to do.

Cluck U wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:

It's a strange day when I find myself agreeing with JSO and disagreeing with you.

kalm is having a good day landing some fish.

Trout season opens up in a month here in Delaware...woo-hoo!

It's about a month till the BWO's start hatching on my streams...

Pwns wrote:Wind and solar.

Especially wind. End the wind tax credit and put that money toward other research.

And I love all the libs that support a tax credit of $175+ million a year for the 2nd richest guy in America.

Amazingly, despite ample evidence that corn based ethanol is an economic loser, a virual net zero benefit for the environment, and actually a drag on food prices and supply, we continue to plow ahead with increasing ethanol requirements in the gas supply. Super.

GannonFan wrote:Amazingly, despite ample evidence that corn based ethanol is an economic loser, a virual net zero benefit for the environment, and actually a drag on food prices and supply, we continue to plow ahead with increasing ethanol requirements in the gas supply. Super.

And why on earth do you think that is?

kalm wrote:

GannonFan wrote:Amazingly, despite ample evidence that corn based ethanol is an economic loser, a virual net zero benefit for the environment, and actually a drag on food prices and supply, we continue to plow ahead with increasing ethanol requirements in the gas supply. Super.

And why on earth do you think that is?

Because we're generally, as a country, stupid.

GannonFan wrote:

kalm wrote:
And why on earth do you think that is?

Because we're generally, as a country, stupid.

Agreed, but what about the mechanics of it? Why do bad ideas like ethanol, or finite, polluting, and externality subsidized resources like coal and oil continue to get propped up?

Wind and solar.

I don't think wind and solar are likely to be substantial contributors to solutions but we...as a species...are going to have to come up with solutions. Fossil fuels will become depleted at some point.

In the long term, this is more important than things like Social Secuarity and Medicare. We don't find a way to transition into other things as fossil fuels run out, we're totally screwed. Not me personally. I'll be long dead by the time the crunch comes. I'm talking about "we" as a species.

kalm wrote:We can't afford this.

kalm wrote:We can't afford this.

This is what, a fraction of the subsidies kicked to Big Oil...there's your $$ with a bunch left over. Next.

kalm wrote:

CitadelGrad wrote:
Sure we can. It's White House tours that we can't afford.

We need to privatize those...make some money off them so we can lower taxes and pay down the debt.

We need to broaden the base, close the loopholes, pay down the debt. Synergy.

bluehenbillk wrote:

kalm wrote:We can't afford this.

This is what, a fraction of the subsidies kicked to Big Oil...there's your $$ with a bunch left over. Next.

Do you realize, the high costs of extraction, environmental regulations, and other externalities and how slim the margins are on oil? Never mind the fact that you would in essence be taking away hard earned dollars and redistributing them to a lecherous underclass that can't carry it's own weight. What's worse, is that Big Oil would have to pass that increase on to manufacturers and shippers, raising the price of goods for everyone.

Besides,we have tons of oil left that hasn't even been touched. Open up more locations for drilling and we can 1) end our dependence on repressive/hostile foreign governments, and 2) lower the price of gas at the pump without any ramifications.

Big Oil is a perfect example of free market/supply and demand economics. It's a sacred cow that cannot be touched.

Ibanez wrote:

kalm wrote:
We need to privatize those...make some money off them so we can lower taxes and pay down the debt.

We need to broaden the base, close the loopholes, pay down the debt. Synergy.

We don't have a revenue problem. Even a liberal like Cleets knows this.

JohnStOnge wrote:

Wind and solar.

I don't think wind and solar are likely to be substantial contributors to solutions but we...as a species...are going to have to come up with solutions. Fossil fuels will become depleted at some point.

In the long term, this is more important than things like Social Secuarity and Medicare. We don't find a way to transition into other things as fossil fuels run out, we're totally screwed. Not me personally. I'll be long dead by the time the crunch comes. I'm talking about "we" as a species.