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grizzaholic wrote:Me, I like burning gas and oil. It seems to work great. I put it in my vehicle and it goes down the road. Why do we need to even discuss this....Spandos... We seem to have a fairly good grasp on how this oil thing works so why change?

grizzaholic wrote:I don't think gas is all that bad. It is, what, 3 bucks a gallon? Let me know when NASCAR, INDY, air shows, Monster Truck races, boat racing, drag racing, ( I know I am leaving a ton out ) stop happening and then I will "THINK" about what to do. Oil will be around in stockpiles until we all have those fancy dancy cars from Demolition Man.

expandspanos wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:I don't think gas is all that bad. It is, what, 3 bucks a gallon? Let me know when NASCAR, INDY, air shows, Monster Truck races, boat racing, drag racing, ( I know I am leaving a ton out ) stop happening and then I will "THINK" about what to do. Oil will be around in stockpiles until we all have those fancy dancy cars from Demolition Man.

Here gas is $4.50 and rising daily.

A car buyer who lays out an extra $6,200 extra to buy the hybrid version of the Lexus RX will get the money back in gas savings within five years, according to Consumer Reports magazine, but only if gasoline averages $8.77 a gallon. Otherwise, the nonhybrid RX 350 is a better buy than the Hybrid 450h, the magazine says. The hybrid gets 26 miles per gallon, and the nonhybrid, 21, in the magazine’s calculation.

The magazine’s annual New Car Buying Guide includes a table that compares several hybrid cars with their nonhybrid versions, or, in the case of cars that come only in hybrid models, to similar cars by the same manufacturer that are not hybrids.

For example, the Honda Insight comes only in a hybrid version, so it was compared with the nonhybrid Honda Fit; gasoline would have to rise to $10.08 to even out the extra expense, Consumer Reports said. The Insight sells for $22,010 and the Fit for $16,260.

The researchers use a five-year payback period because that is a typical duration for car ownership. It assumed that the driver would log 12,000 miles a year and pay $2.80 a gallon, a price that now looks a bit on the low side.

The Toyota Prius, the most popular hybrid, did far better in the magazine’s comparison. Consumer Reports paired it with the Toyota Corolla LE, comparing the hybrid’s 44 miles per gallon and purchase price of $22,950 with the Corolla’s $17,950 list price and 32 miles per gallon. The Prius will cost less over a five-year period as long as the price of gasoline averages only 80 cents a gallon, the magazine calculated.

For some models, the choice is close to neutral from a financial point of view. The Ford Escape hybrid would cost $500 more over five years, but would break even if gasoline prices averaged $3.60. The Toyota Camry hybrid would save $500 over five years by comparison with the Camry LE 4-cylinder and remains a better deal if the price of gasoline averages just $1.92.

expandspanos wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:Me, I like burning gas and oil. It seems to work great. I put it in my vehicle and it goes down the road. Why do we need to even discuss this....Spandos... We seem to have a fairly good grasp on how this oil thing works so why change?

Well, obviously people would rather be feeding their families than bending over paying a kings ransom to move their ass down the road.

Obviously we are being ripped off when a teenager can build an electric vehicle that cost 2 cents a mile to opperate:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9d3wAjdknA[/youtube]

You're telling me the billion dollar think tanks sitting in the plush boardrooms and engineers at Ford, GM, etc. can't build us a car that doesn't bend everybody over and rob them of their hard earned income?.. as gas climbs higher and higher and higher?

SuperHornet wrote:Gas is near $4 in Lodi again, over $4 at at least premium and often mid-grade as well. Chevron is over at all grades. When it shot up, it REALLY shot up.

I agree with grizza about corn gas. Corn is for eating, and anything that takes away from eating (human or animal) is bad.

I don't know if anyone's perfected a safe way to burn methane (particularly without the smell associated with it), but choices would be good. The added competition should drive prices down, assuming the gas companies actually obey the law of supply and demand (which they haven't recently).

grizzaholic wrote:HI, you are probably the most level headed poster here, but I disagree with your natural gas or electricity comments.

Natural gas should be for BBQ's, homes, and Hipsters. Electricity should be forgotten for cars.

Oil will never run out, and before I get skewered over the "never" I use that term for 500 years or so. Technology will get us all nu'clear powered cars.

HI54UNI wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:HI, you are probably the most level headed poster here, but I disagree with your natural gas or electricity comments.

Natural gas should be for BBQ's, homes, and Hipsters. Electricity should be forgotten for cars.

Oil will never run out, and before I get skewered over the "never" I use that term for 500 years or so. Technology will get us all nu'clear powered cars.

I don't disagree with you. Right now the only way an electric car is semi-useful is for commuting in stop and go traffic. As ASUG8 pointed out you are better off buying a fuel efficient regular vehicle if you want to save money.

My main reason for suggesting natural gas is because we have a lot of it and because it would be better than using electricity for vehicles. Plus we could tell the Arabs to go fuck themselves.

∞∞∞ wrote:I think history will look back and see ethanol as one of our biggest energy failures.

HI54UNI wrote:

SuperHornet wrote:Gas is near $4 in Lodi again, over $4 at at least premium and often mid-grade as well. Chevron is over at all grades. When it shot up, it REALLY shot up.

I agree with grizza about corn gas. Corn is for eating, and anything that takes away from eating (human or animal) is bad.

I don't know if anyone's perfected a safe way to burn methane (particularly without the smell associated with it), but choices would be good. The added competition should drive prices down, assuming the gas companies actually obey the law of supply and demand (which they haven't recently).

Actually one of the ethanol byproducts is distillers grain which is still used as animal feed so there is still food value. The biggest reason to dislike ethanol is the amount of water used in its production.

HI54UNI wrote:

SuperHornet wrote:Gas is near $4 in Lodi again, over $4 at at least premium and often mid-grade as well. Chevron is over at all grades. When it shot up, it REALLY shot up.

I agree with grizza about corn gas. Corn is for eating, and anything that takes away from eating (human or animal) is bad.

I don't know if anyone's perfected a safe way to burn methane (particularly without the smell associated with it), but choices would be good. The added competition should drive prices down, assuming the gas companies actually obey the law of supply and demand (which they haven't recently).

Actually one of the ethanol byproducts is distillers grain which is still used as animal feed so there is still food value. The biggest reason to dislike ethanol is the amount of water used in its production.

grizzaholic wrote:

HI54UNI wrote:
I don't disagree with you. Right now the only way an electric car is semi-useful is for commuting in stop and go traffic. As ASUG8 pointed out you are better off buying a fuel efficient regular vehicle if you want to save money.

My main reason for suggesting natural gas is because we have a lot of it and because it would be better than using electricity for vehicles. Plus we could tell the Arabs to go fuck themselves.

I tried to read ASUG6's post but all the numbers confused me. I took math 205 from OSBF in college.

I tell Trip to fuck off all the time.

ASUG8 wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:
I tried to read ASUG6's post but all the numbers confused me. I took math 205 from OSBF in college.

I tell Trip to fuck off all the time.

There's no one on this board aside from OSBF himself that could pass that course. Maybe Opie.......

∞∞∞ wrote:I think history will look back....

mrklean wrote:The Problem is not gas vs. water vs. electric, its really how much bang you get for your buck. Tell me when you can get a V6 at 40 MPG or a V6 /5.6 at 30 MPG. We have the tech to do it. and we all know why they won't. Trust me, THe V6 with 30 MPG has been invented. a while ago. FACT!!!!!

∞∞∞ wrote:I think history will look back and see ethanol as one of our biggest energy failures.

GannonFan wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote:I think history will look back and see ethanol as one of our biggest energy failures.

No need to wait for that. We already recognize now it is one of our bigger energy failures. Trouble is convincing the politicians to just let it go - some just can't let go of that porkbarrel no matter how bad the policy is.