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Thanks to Fox News and its expert commentators, millions of Americans now understand the real, hidden reason why Germany's solar-energy industry is so much further along than ours. Turns out it has nothing to do with the fact that Germany's government has long supported the industry far more generously, with policies like feed-in tariffs that stimulate investment in green technologies. No, the real reason is much simpler, explained a trio of journalists on Fox & Friends: It's always sunny in Germany!

89Hen wrote:Newscasters as a group are pretty stupid from my experience. Anyone who watches these daytime shows are more stupid for watching them.

Germany has nearly as much installed solar power generation capacity as the rest of the world combined and gets about four percent of its overall annual electricity needs from the sun alone. I

JohnStOnge wrote:Yes it would've been much better if she would've put how much Germany, as the world's leader in solar energy, actually gets from that source. You know, quote something like what's stated in the article at http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/ ... FI20120526" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Germany has nearly as much installed solar power generation capacity as the rest of the world combined and gets about four percent of its overall annual electricity needs from the sun alone. I

Oh yeah. A country that has nearly as much solar generation capacity as the rest of the world combined and that provides a WHOPPING FOUR PERCENT of its annual electricity needs! WOOOO HOOOO! Yeah. Let's shut down all our other means of generating electricity tomorrow and go to solar because Germany has shown that it can supply FOUR PERCENT of it's annual electricity needs that way!

WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR!!!!

kalm wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:Yes it would've been much better if she would've put how much Germany, as the world's leader in solar energy, actually gets from that source. You know, quote something like what's stated in the article at http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/ ... FI20120526" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.



Oh yeah. A country that has nearly as much solar generation capacity as the rest of the world combined and that provides a WHOPPING FOUR PERCENT of its annual electricity needs! WOOOO HOOOO! Yeah. Let's shut down all our other means of generating electricity tomorrow and go to solar because Germany has shown that it can supply FOUR PERCENT of it's annual electricity needs that way!

WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR!!!!

1) It rains there...a lot.

2) Germany is getting 20% of its energy from renewables.

3) Fossil fuels still have a huge leg up when it comes to infrastructure, subsidies, availability, etc.

Get back to me once the playing field is leveled.

HI54UNI wrote:

kalm wrote:
1) It rains there...a lot.

2) Germany is getting 20% of its energy from renewables.

3) Fossil fuels still have a huge leg up when it comes to infrastructure, subsidies, availability, etc.

Get back to me once the playing field is leveled.

Measures of energy on an annual basis are worthless. The importance is when the energy is produced. Unless it is produced during on peak hours it doesn't mean shit.

(Reuters) - German solar power plants produced a world record 22 gigawatts of electricity per hour - equal to 20 nuclear power stations at full capacity - through the midday hours on Friday and Saturday, the head of a renewable energy think tank said.

"Never before anywhere has a country produced as much photovoltaic electricity," Allnoch told Reuters. "Germany came close to the 20 gigawatt (GW) mark a few times in recent weeks. But this was the first time we made it over."

The record-breaking amount of solar power shows one of the world's leading industrial nations was able to meet a third of its electricity needs on a work day, Friday, and nearly half on Saturday when factories and offices were closed.

BlueHen86 wrote:Fossil fuels will eventually run out. At some point in our future we will have to make a switch to something else. Solar may not be the answer, but right now I think the effort to develop and utilize it is worth it.

We are not going to magically find a prefered alternative to fossil fuels, it's going to take effort, hard work and sacrifice. Think of it as being like the MLB minor leagues. Teams draft lots of players, most start in A and AA and never make it to MLB, but teams have to spend the time and money to try and develop the ones that do. Solar energy may still be in the minors, but I think it is too soon to say that it will never make it to the majors.

BlueHen86 wrote:Fossil fuels will eventually run out. At some point in our future we will have to make a switch to something else. Solar may not be the answer, but right now I think the effort to develop and utilize it is worth it.

We are not going to magically find a prefered alternative to fossil fuels, it's going to take effort, hard work and sacrifice. Think of it as being like the MLB minor leagues. Teams draft lots of players, most start in A and AA and never make it to MLB, but teams have to spend the time and money to try and develop the ones that do. Solar energy may still be in the minors, but I think it is too soon to say that it will never make it to the majors.

kalm wrote:

HI54UNI wrote:
Measures of energy on an annual basis are worthless. The importance is when the energy is produced. Unless it is produced during on peak hours it doesn't mean shit.

From JSO's link:

(Reuters) - German solar power plants produced a world record 22 gigawatts of electricity per hour - equal to 20 nuclear power stations at full capacity - through the midday hours on Friday and Saturday, the head of a renewable energy think tank said.

"Never before anywhere has a country produced as much photovoltaic electricity," Allnoch told Reuters. "Germany came close to the 20 gigawatt (GW) mark a few times in recent weeks. But this was the first time we made it over."

The record-breaking amount of solar power shows one of the world's leading industrial nations was able to meet a third of its electricity needs on a work day, Friday, and nearly half on Saturday when factories and offices were closed.

HI54UNI wrote:

kalm wrote:
From JSO's link:

Article is from May which is a shoulder month not a peak month. And Saturdays aren't on peak either.

And yes, let's copy Germany.

Utilities and consumer groups have complained the FIT for solar power adds about 2 cents per kilowatt/hour on top of electricity prices in Germany that are already among the highest in the world with consumers paying about 23 cents per kw/h.

German consumers pay about 4 billion euros ($5 billion) per year on top of their electricity bills for solar power, according to a 2012 report by the Environment Ministry.


I will say this, if we are going to subsidize something I would rather it be solar than wind.

BDKJMU wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:Fossil fuels will eventually run out. At some point in our future we will have to make a switch to something else. Solar may not be the answer, but right now I think the effort to develop and utilize it is worth it.

We are not going to magically find a prefered alternative to fossil fuels, it's going to take effort, hard work and sacrifice. Think of it as being like the MLB minor leagues. Teams draft lots of players, most start in A and AA and never make it to MLB, but teams have to spend the time and money to try and develop the ones that do. Solar energy may still be in the minors, but I think it is too soon to say that it will never make it to the majors.

Not in this century. Every year new discoveries are being made, new technologies are being developed (ex fracking, shale, oil/tar sands) and worldwide production is increasing. The peak oil alarmists have had to push back their peak oil predictions how many times and by how many decades?

kalm wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:Fossil fuels will eventually run out. At some point in our future we will have to make a switch to something else. Solar may not be the answer, but right now I think the effort to develop and utilize it is worth it.

We are not going to magically find a prefered alternative to fossil fuels, it's going to take effort, hard work and sacrifice. Think of it as being like the MLB minor leagues. Teams draft lots of players, most start in A and AA and never make it to MLB, but teams have to spend the time and money to try and develop the ones that do. Solar energy may still be in the minors, but I think it is too soon to say that it will never make it to the majors.

Great post.

I'll add we've invested a crap ton of public dollars to get oil where it's at today. We continue to subsidize it to the hilt, increasing it's already huge competitive advantage over alternatives. The politics of that is ironic given Republican support for big oil while rhetorically pandering to the notion of being pro-competitive market place.

BDKJMU wrote:

kalm wrote:
Great post.

I'll add we've invested a crap ton of public dollars to get oil where it's at today. We continue to subsidize it to the hilt, increasing it's already huge competitive advantage over alternatives. The politics of that is ironic given Republican support for big oil while rhetorically pandering to the notion of being pro-competitive market place.

And the govt over the last century has reaped an even bigger amount of $ in drilling leases, royalties, and taxes on oil companies and related companies and employees.

The oil companies are operating under the same tax laws as other major industries. The oil companies don't have a competitive advantage over alternatives. They aren't getting loans, direct payments and grants from the govt like alternatives are. Yet alternatives still can't compete.

kalm wrote:

BDKJMU wrote:
And the govt over the last century has reaped an even bigger amount of $ in drilling leases, royalties, and taxes on oil companies and related companies and employees.

The oil companies are operating under the same tax laws as other major industries. The oil companies don't have a competitive advantage over alternatives. They aren't getting loans, direct payments and grants from the govt like alternatives are. Yet alternatives still can't compete.

Oh please. We've gone to war over oil and, as I mentioned in the other thread, how much have we spent on infrastructure, environmental clean up, health related costs, in addition to military spending to support oil? I'm not saying we shouldn't have invested in it. That's reality. But as it currently stands I don't think it's a very level market place. Then consider how much countries like Germany and China are investing in renewables...regressive thinking.

kalm wrote:

BDKJMU wrote:
And the govt over the last century has reaped an even bigger amount of $ in drilling leases, royalties, and taxes on oil companies and related companies and employees.

The oil companies are operating under the same tax laws as other major industries. The oil companies don't have a competitive advantage over alternatives. They aren't getting loans, direct payments and grants from the govt like alternatives are. Yet alternatives still can't compete.

Oh please. We've gone to war over oil and, as I mentioned in the other thread, how much have we spent on infrastructure, environmental clean up, health related costs, in addition to military spending to support oil? I'm not saying we shouldn't have invested in it. That's reality. But as it currently stands I don't think it's a very level market place. Then consider how much countries like Germany and China are investing in renewables...regressive thinking.

BDKJMU wrote:

kalm wrote:
Oh please. We've gone to war over oil and, as I mentioned in the other thread, how much have we spent on infrastructure, environmental clean up, health related costs, in addition to military spending to support oil? I'm not saying we shouldn't have invested in it. That's reality. But as it currently stands I don't think it's a very level market place. Then consider how much countries like Germany and China are investing in renewables...regressive thinking.

I see. With you if its oil its "subsidies". If its alternatives its "investing".

BDKJMU wrote:

kalm wrote:
Oh please. We've gone to war over oil and, as I mentioned in the other thread, how much have we spent on infrastructure, environmental clean up, health related costs, in addition to military spending to support oil? I'm not saying we shouldn't have invested in it. That's reality. But as it currently stands I don't think it's a very level market place. Then consider how much countries like Germany and China are investing in renewables...regressive thinking.

I see. With you if its oil its "subsidies". If its alternatives its "investing".

BDKJMU wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:Fossil fuels will eventually run out. At some point in our future we will have to make a switch to something else. Solar may not be the answer, but right now I think the effort to develop and utilize it is worth it.

We are not going to magically find a prefered alternative to fossil fuels, it's going to take effort, hard work and sacrifice. Think of it as being like the MLB minor leagues. Teams draft lots of players, most start in A and AA and never make it to MLB, but teams have to spend the time and money to try and develop the ones that do. Solar energy may still be in the minors, but I think it is too soon to say that it will never make it to the majors.

Not in this century. Every year new discoveries are being made, new technologies are being developed (ex fracking, shale, oil/tar sands) and worldwide production is increasing. The peak oil alarmists have had to push back their peak oil predictions how many times and by how many decades?