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Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:39 am
by kalm
Shocker!
And I ya gotta love the Orwellian name of the organization.
A secretive funding organisation in the United States that guarantees anonymity for its billionaire donors has emerged as a major operator in the climate "counter movement" to undermine the science of global warming, The Independent has learnt.
The Donors Trust, along with its sister group Donors Capital Fund, based in Alexandria, Virginia, is funnelling millions of dollars into the effort to cast doubt on climate change without revealing the identities of its wealthy backers or that they have links to the fossil fuel industry.
Millions of dollars has been paid to Donors through a third-party organisation, called the Knowledge and Progress Fund, with is operated by the Koch family but does not advertise its Koch connections.
The Knowledge and Progress Fund, whose directors include Charles Koch and his wife Liz, gave $1.25m to Donors in 2007, a further $1.25m in 2008 and $2m in 2010. It does not appear to have given money to any other group and there is no mention of the fund on the websites of Koch Industries or the Charles Koch Foundation.
The Donors Trust is a "donor advised fund", meaning that it has special status under the US tax system. People who give money receive generous tax relief and can retain greater anonymity than if they had used their own charitable foundations because, technically, they do not control how Donors spends the cash.
Anonymous private funding of global warming sceptics, who have criticised climate scientists for their lack of transparency, is becoming increasingly common. The Kochs, for instance, have overtaken the corporate funding of climate denialism by oil companies such as ExxonMobil. One such organisation, Americans for Prosperity, which was established by David Koch, claimed that the "Climategate" emails illegally hacked from the University of East Anglia in 2009 proved that global warming was the "biggest hoax the world has ever seen".
Robert Brulle, a sociologist at Drexel University in Philadelphia, has estimated that over the past decade about
$500m 
has been given to organisations devoted to undermining the science of climate change, with much of the money donated anonymously through third parties.
The trust has given money to the Competitive Enterprise Institute which is currently being sued for defamation by Professor Michael Mann of Pennsylvania University, an eminent climatologist, whose affidavit claims that he was accused of scientific fraud and compared to a convicted child molester.
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Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:42 am
by Ivytalk
Cheese it, the Kochs!
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:45 am
by 89Hen
A secretive funding organisation
I don't trust anyone who spells it with an s.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 am
by bluehenbillk
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:47 am
by kalm
89Hen wrote:A secretive funding organisation
I don't trust anyone who spells it with an s.
Or who uses the word "learnt". Brits...
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:25 am
by D1B
Crack wise when backed into a corner or caught with jack off hand in cookie jar.
Denier Conks
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:57 am
by Grizalltheway
That cesspool of a city you and GF call home will be one of the first to be inundated. So yeah, i guess it's not all bad.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:08 am
by TheDancinMonarch
The earth is 4.5 billlion years old. I don't take what has happened in the last 150 years to be significant.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:11 am
by kalm
TheDancinMonarch wrote:The earth is 4.5 billlion years old. I don't take what has happened in the last 150 years to be significant.
The earth has gone through many climate cycles, some of which caused mass migrations, wars, and periods of enlightened thinking over a relatively short time frame. Much of it was significant too.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:44 am
by Col Hogan
I don't deny the climate is changing...it has been in a constant flux for as long as science can document...
I disagree with the doomsayers who demand instant life changes...
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:45 am
by bluehenbillk
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:56 am
by 89Hen
Col Hogan wrote:I don't deny the climate is changing...it has been in a constant flux for as long as science can document...
I disagree with the doomsayers who demand instant life changes...
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:25 pm
by kalm
89Hen wrote:Col Hogan wrote:I don't deny the climate is changing...it has been in a constant flux for as long as science can document...
I disagree with the doomsayers who demand instant life changes...
No doubt. But if you're skeptical of AGW, you should be equally skeptical of those spending $100's millions trying to convince you it isn't true. No excuse, I'm going to go for a long drive in the country.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:45 pm
by 89Hen
kalm wrote:89Hen wrote:
No doubt. But if you're skeptical of AGW, you should be equally skeptical of those spending $100's millions trying to convince you it isn't true.
I am. But what I want to know is if the donors are anonymous, how do we know they have ties to anything? I would be skeptical of that too.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:45 pm
by GannonFan
I think you're a fool to think that the climate isn't changing. Of course, I also think you're a fool if you think the whole world is going to stop what we're doing and try to reverse the change. Time and money is better spent dealing with the change than pretending that we can actually reverse it only to find out we couldn't.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:03 pm
by D1B
89Hen wrote:kalm wrote:
No doubt. But if you're skeptical of AGW, you should be equally skeptical of those spending $100's millions trying to convince you it isn't true.
I am. But what I want to know is if the donors are anonymous, how do we know they have ties to anything? I would be skeptical of that too.
No you aint. You parrot everything those conk goons have to say on GW.
Fucking liar.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:09 pm
by 89Hen
D1B wrote:89Hen wrote:
I am. But what I want to know is if the donors are anonymous, how do we know they have ties to anything? I would be skeptical of that too.
No you aint. You parrot everything those conk goons have to say on GW.
Fucking liar.
OK Mr Bananas
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:26 pm
by D1B
89Hen wrote:D1B wrote:
No you aint. You parrot everything those conk goons have to say on GW.
Fucking liar.
OK Mr Bananas
You miss him, don't you.
We all do.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:31 pm
by Ibanez
Col Hogan wrote:I don't deny the climate is changing...it has been in a constant flux for as long as science can document...
I disagree with the doomsayers who demand instant life changes...
True. I would also suggest that heavy industry hasn't helped the enviroment. Is it as dire as some say? I don't know. But does man contribute to it with 100+ years of pollution from factories and vehicles? Possibly. I'd say factories and vehicles are more to blame than cow farts and aersol cans. We SHOULD begin changing/altering our energy consumption and sources, that should be a no brainer.
But i'm not a scientist, just an observer.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:32 pm
by TheDancinMonarch
kalm wrote:TheDancinMonarch wrote:The earth is 4.5 billlion years old. I don't take what has happened in the last 150 years to be significant.
The earth has gone through many climate cycles, some of which caused mass migrations, wars, and periods of enlightened thinking over a relatively short time frame. Much of it was significant too.
No doubt. But few if any, no, none caused by human actions over the 4.5 billion years.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:43 pm
by ∞∞∞
TheDancinMonarch wrote:kalm wrote:
The earth has gone through many climate cycles, some of which caused mass migrations, wars, and periods of enlightened thinking over a relatively short time frame. Much of it was significant too.
No doubt. But few if any, no, none caused by human actions over the 4.5 billion years.
That's a moot point considering our technology, population, & energy needs were insignificant until the last century or so years. We've reached a point where humans can (significantly) affect the environment.
There's some great studies on how think tanks (mostly from coal) have been able to make people believe the hard science behind this stuff is largely wrong, and with great success nonetheless. Money talks.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:49 pm
by Ibanez
TheDancinMonarch wrote:kalm wrote:
The earth has gone through many climate cycles, some of which caused mass migrations, wars, and periods of enlightened thinking over a relatively short time frame. Much of it was significant too.
No doubt. But few if any, no, none caused by human actions over the 4.5 billion years.
I wouldn't say 4.5 billion since the earliest humans evolved around 2.5 million years ago but i'd say since the Industrial Revolution greenhouse gassess have increased expotentially more than anytime ever in human history (according to an article I read last week). Interestingly enough, since 2006 some research has suggested that Earths magnetic field might be contributing, although I didn't fully understand it.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:08 pm
by 89Hen
BTW, as a waterfront homeowner, I am very nervous about climate change. My yard already floods at extreme high tide.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:23 pm
by ∞∞∞
89Hen wrote:BTW, as a waterfront homeowner, I am very nervous about climate change. My yard already floods at extreme high tide.
The majority of ODU will be underwater by the end of the century (if levees aren't built). That said, global warming should not affect the US as much as Europe and Asia. As ice melts and colder waters enter the great conveyor belt, it'll slow down and they'll experience much more colder weather than we will (the mini-ice age people talk about). In fact, the US will probably experience more droughts and severe storms.
Re: Why You Deny Climate Change
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:11 pm
by expandspanos
Col Hogan wrote:I don't deny the climate is changing...it has been in a constant flux for as long as science can document...
I disagree with the doomsayers who demand instant life changes...
Exactly- The earth has gone through multiple warm and cold cycles- The only difference between then and now is now we have politicians attempting to blame the public- and create new "carbon taxes" to squeeze even more money out of the already deflated public.
The Amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has historically lagged behind the increase/decrease in global temperature- meaning CO2 is influenced by temperature, not the other way around.
Did people have cars and factories 5,000 years ago? No, yet the temperature was much higher.
Was the higher temperature during the Holocene because "us evil humans" were around? No, it had to do with other factors entirely- The only difference between then and now is we have Al Gore flying around in his private Jet (supposedly a huge factor for CO2 and global warming hypocrite) with his multiple houses (hypocrite) telling us useless eaters/non elite that we are the cause of the problem- and the only solution is a global Carbon tax, which will increase the cost of literally every single thing we buy.
During the same very small period the global warming fear-mongerers want us to focus on on Earth- other bodies in our solar system have also warmed.
Mars, Pluto, Jupiter, Triton have also experienced increases in temperature at the same time Earth has-
Because other bodies in our solar system are warming at the same rate the Earth is- that is a strong indication that we are dealing with fluxes in solar radiation that are the driving factor.
