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Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:37 pm
by Cap'n Cat
Did not connect with voters, being a an ultra-rich Conk fvck.
Business "acumen" was all about shipping US jobs overseas and shutting down plants.
Obama free of Conk-type scandals.
Would not provide his tax returns.
Obama is just faster, smarter, better-looking.
Conks just suck nowadays. Not into people. Into money.
What else?
Discuss.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:02 pm
by SuperHornet
Yeah. President Obama has his own kind of scandals. Like hiring people who have problems paying their taxes....
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:48 pm
by SeattleGriz
As much as I hate to admit it Capn, you are right. Unless Romney grows a pair and stops acting like McCain, he is toast.
Romney needs to focus on the fact Obama is a point person. All the schools got a point for diversity because they allowed his subpar grades to advance his career.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:23 am
by Bison Fan in NW MN
Cap'n Cat wrote:Did not connect with voters, being a an ultra-rich Conk fvck.
Business "acumen" was all about shipping US jobs overseas and shutting down plants.
Obama free of Conk-type scandals.
Would not provide his tax returns.
Obama is just faster, smarter, better-looking.
Conks just suck nowadays. Not into people. Into money.
What else?
Let's see: Obama being your messiah.....
If he wins we can look forward to:
- increased tax rates
- higher capital gains tax rates
- sustained corporate tax rates which are the highest in the world
- new Medicare tax on investment income
- payroll taxes will go up
-marriage penalty will come back
- estate tax increase
-100% business expensing expires
-new health care taxes take effect
-child tax credit is reduced from 1K to 500
- new 3.8% surtax on investment income
- hike in medicare payroll tax
Discuss.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:20 am
by SDHornet
Bison Fan in NW MN wrote:Cap'n Cat wrote:Did not connect with voters, being a an ultra-rich Conk fvck.
Business "acumen" was all about shipping US jobs overseas and shutting down plants.
Obama free of Conk-type scandals.
Would not provide his tax returns.
Obama is just faster, smarter, better-looking.
Conks just suck nowadays. Not into people. Into money.
What else?
Let's see: Obama being your messiah.....
If he wins we can look forward to:
- increased tax rates
- higher capital gains tax rates
- sustained corporate tax rates which are the highest in the world
- new Medicare tax on investment income
- payroll taxes will go up
-marriage penalty will come back
- estate tax increase
-100% business expensing expires
-new health care taxes take effect
-child tax credit is reduced from 1K to 500
- new 3.8% surtax on investment income
- hike in medicare payroll tax
Discuss.
Couldn't most, if not all of the issues you listed above be accomplished if the repubs can win back congress? That should probably be their primary focus at this point. I don't see a Romney-Ryan ticket knocking off Obama at this point.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:46 am
by Grizalltheway
SeattleGriz wrote:As much as I hate to admit it Capn, you are right. Unless Romney grows a pair and stops acting like McCain, he is toast.
Romney needs to focus on the fact Obama is a point person. All the schools got a point for diversity because they allowed his subpar grades to advance his career.
Time to pick up and move to North Idaho, SeaG.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:33 pm
by JohnStOnge
If he wins, which is likely, one factor will be that the Democrats have succeeded over many decades in creating a system in which a substantial majority of the people in the United States get more out of the system than they put into it. Democrats are seen as the champions of those net "takers." The overwhelming majority of such people consistently vote for them.
Another factor is racial demographics. Non Whites, I think, tend to think government is there to take care of them. They vote iin overwhelming majorities for Democrats. Also, we have a problem in that Hispanic citizens tend to want to facilitate illegal immigration. So if someone advocates doing the right thing on illegal immigration, as Republicans are more likely to do, Democrats gain with respect to the Hispanic vote as they most certainly DON'T want to do the right thing. Then there's the fact that Obama is just more telegenic. He looks and sounds better on TV.
So the country is in serious trouble. The guy will probably get elected again and so have the opportunity to do more damage under circumstances where he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected again.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:30 pm
by Cap'n Cat
JohnStOnge wrote:If he wins, which is likely, one factor will be that the Democrats have succeeded over many decades in creating a system in which a substantial majority of the people in the United States get more out of the system than they put into it. Democrats are seen as the champions of those net "takers." The overwhelming majority of such people consistently vote for them.
Another factor is racial demographics. Non Whites, I think, tend to think government is there to take care of them. They vote iin overwhelming majorities for Democrats. Also, we have a problem in that Hispanic citizens tend to want to facilitate illegal immigration. So if someone advocates doing the right thing on illegal immigration, as Republicans are more likely to do, Democrats gain with respect to the Hispanic vote as they most certainly DON'T want to do the right thing. Then there's the fact that Obama is just more telegenic. He looks and sounds better on TV.
So the country is in serious trouble. The guy will probably get elected again and so have the opportunity to do more damage under circumstances where he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected again.
Man, St. Wronge, you are SO wrong on so many things in your post, it's comedic. I can't believe you live with your ugly Conk self. But, I have to surrender to you and not reply because I am too stoned to put together a patch of syllables to lay you out Internetally.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:59 am
by Bison Fan in NW MN
JohnStOnge wrote:If he wins, which is likely, one factor will be that the Democrats have succeeded over many decades in creating a system in which a substantial majority of the people in the United States get more out of the system than they put into it. Democrats are seen as the champions of those net "takers." The overwhelming majority of such people consistently vote for them.
Another factor is racial demographics. Non Whites, I think, tend to think government is there to take care of them. They vote iin overwhelming majorities for Democrats. Also, we have a problem in that Hispanic citizens tend to want to facilitate illegal immigration. So if someone advocates doing the right thing on illegal immigration, as Republicans are more likely to do, Democrats gain with respect to the Hispanic vote as they most certainly DON'T want to do the right thing. Then there's the fact that Obama is just more telegenic. He looks and sounds better on TV.
So the country is in serious trouble. The guy will probably get elected again and so have the opportunity to do more damage under circumstances where he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected again.
Truth here in this post.
....and Capt, it would be a shame to have you go unfed by putting your unemployment check under your work boots....
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:21 am
by SDHornet
JohnStOnge wrote:If he wins, which is likely, one factor will be that the Democrats have succeeded over many decades in creating a system in which a substantial majority of the people in the United States get more out of the system than they put into it. Democrats are seen as the champions of those net "takers." The overwhelming majority of such people consistently vote for them.
Another factor is racial demographics. Non Whites, I think, tend to think government is there to take care of them. They vote iin overwhelming majorities for Democrats. Also, we have a problem in that Hispanic citizens tend to want to facilitate illegal immigration. So if someone advocates doing the right thing on illegal immigration, as Republicans are more likely to do, Democrats gain with respect to the Hispanic vote as they most certainly DON'T want to do the right thing. Then there's the fact that Obama is just more telegenic. He looks and sounds better on TV.
So the country is in serious trouble. The guy will probably get elected again and so have the opportunity to do more damage under circumstances where he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected again.
Loads of fail in this statement. It's businesses that hire and use illegal immigrant labor that facilitates illegal immigration, not illegals already here. The vast majority of illegal immigrants don't come here to hang out because there are other illegal immigrants here, they come here to work. And over the years its evident that neither repubs or dems want to touch the immigration issue aside from making it a talking point to excite their voting base. The status quo is simply to easy to ignore rather than changing it. So long as businesses feel entitled to cheap illegal labor, this issue will never get fixed.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:29 am
by houndawg
JohnStOnge wrote:If he wins, which is likely, one factor will be that the Democrats have succeeded over many decades in creatinga system in which a substantial majority of the people in the United States get more out of the system than they put into it. Democrats are seen as the champions of those net "takers." The overwhelming majority of such people consistently vote for them.
Another factor is racial demographics. Non Whites, I think, tend to think government is there to take care of them. They vote iin overwhelming majorities for Democrats. Also, we have a problem in that Hispanic citizens tend to want to facilitate illegal immigration. So if someone advocates doing the right thing on illegal immigration, as Republicans are more likely to do, Democrats gain with respect to the Hispanic vote as they most certainly DON'T want to do the right thing. Then there's the fact that Obama is just more telegenic. He looks and sounds better on TV.
So the country is in serious trouble. The guy will probably get elected again and so have the opportunity to do more damage under circumstances where he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected again.
...a system in which a tiny minority of the people in the United States control as much wealth as the bottom 40%...
How tedious, John, as usual. Here's a news flash: Illegal immigration would end tomorrow if it were illegal to hire illegal workers. Stupid conk fvcks whimper about illegals while their greed-head conk fvck cousins hire every Mexican that can crawl across the desert.
fvcking conk pinheads.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:46 am
by YoUDeeMan
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:39 pm
by JohnStOnge
Loads of fail in this statement. It's businesses that hire and use illegal immigrant labor that facilitates illegal immigration, not illegals already here. The vast majority of illegal immigrants don't come here to hang out because there are other illegal immigrants here, they come here to work. And over the years its evident that neither repubs or dems want to touch the immigration issue aside from making it a talking point to excite their voting base. The status quo is simply to easy to ignore rather than changing it. So long as businesses feel entitled to cheap illegal labor, this issue will never get fixed.
All that might be true but what I'm getting at is the perceptions and positions of Hispanics that are citizens and can therefore vote. I think that the overwhelming majority of them do want to facilitate immigration of Hispanics in general and Mexicans in particular into the United State illegal or otherwise. And I think that the overwhelming majority of them want Hispanics in general and Mexicans in particular who make it here illegally to be able to stay here. I think the overwhelming majority of them also want the referenced illegals to be able to use all of our social infrastructure and services.
And at the same time, the perceive the Democratic Party as more favorable to those ends. It's a reasonable perception too. I think that's a factor in the fact that the overwhelming majority of Hispanics who are citizens and can vote typically vote for the Democratic candidate for President.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:01 pm
by JohnStOnge
...a system in which a tiny minority of the people in the United States control as much wealth as the bottom 40%...
When I refer to "the system" I'm referring to the system of government taking in tax revenue and spending money on various things. We hear it all the time but let's take another look. You can get the information I'm going to reference from the CBO web page at
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/20374" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .
I'm going to refer to ALL Federal taxes because sometimes people argue that the picture changes substantially when you look at that instead of just income taxes. But I don't think that it does. It changes some. But not in basic character.
The information comes from tables that can be downloaded by clicking on the "Spreadsheets" link. The latest available year I can find represented by all of the kinds of breakdowns in the tables at the CBO site is 2005. I've been able to find breakdowns of shares of total Federal tax liabilities for as late as 2007 and that tells me the picture was essentially the same then. I have no reason to believe it does not continue to be essentially the same now.
So anyway: In 2005 the bottom 60% of households paid 14.2% of ALL Federal taxes while the top 60% paid 85.8%. In total 2005 dollar terms, the bottom 60% paid $0.283 trillion while the top 60% paid $1.7023 trillion. And there had been a consistent trend over time since 1979, when the bottom 60% paid 22.5% of all Federal taxes, towards the bottom 60% carrying a smaller and smaller portion of the load.
If you look at just Social Insurance taxes the difference is not as great, but it's still a situation where the bottom 60% carried 31.1% of the load in 2005 while the top 40% carried 68.8%. Again, the trend had been towards the bottom 60%, which carried 36.8% of the load in 1979, carrying a smaller and smaller share.
So you can clearly see a situation in which the majority of the population enjoys the benefits of massive government spending while not experiencing what it costs to fund that massive government spending. They are getting the benefits while not paying their share of the cost. And it's very easy to develop popular support for more government spending when most people don't have to pay anything close to the full cost of doing that.
In fact, one thing I've calculated from those tables before is that the average household Federal tax liability for the bottom 60% was substantially lower in inflation adjusted terms in 2005 than it was in 1979. In other words, as government spending increased, what people in the bottom 60% paid in taxes in absolute inflation adjusted terms as well as in terms of percentages of their incomes actually decreased. They were literally having to pay less and less for government while government spent more and more.
Why worry? Just make "the rich" pay for it.
That's what' been going on. It's the game the Democrats have established. And it's a popular game that gets them a lot of votes. But it can't be sustained forever.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:58 pm
by SDHornet
JohnStOnge wrote:Loads of fail in this statement. It's businesses that hire and use illegal immigrant labor that facilitates illegal immigration, not illegals already here. The vast majority of illegal immigrants don't come here to hang out because there are other illegal immigrants here, they come here to work. And over the years its evident that neither repubs or dems want to touch the immigration issue aside from making it a talking point to excite their voting base. The status quo is simply to easy to ignore rather than changing it. So long as businesses feel entitled to cheap illegal labor, this issue will never get fixed.
All that might be true but what I'm getting at is the perceptions and positions of Hispanics that are citizens and can therefore vote. I think that the overwhelming majority of them do want to facilitate immigration of Hispanics in general and Mexicans in particular into the United State illegal or otherwise. And I think that the overwhelming majority of them want Hispanics in general and Mexicans in particular who make it here illegally to be able to stay here. I think the overwhelming majority of them also want the referenced illegals to be able to use all of our social infrastructure and services.
And at the same time, the perceive the Democratic Party as more favorable to those ends. It's a reasonable perception too. I think that's a factor in the fact that the overwhelming majority of Hispanics who are citizens and can vote typically vote for the Democratic candidate for President.
What you fail to realize is businesses hiring illegal labor >>> voting Hispanics wrt voting. Business owners that hire illegal labor have a lot more money to throw around in the elections vs voting Hispanics. You lose...again. The Hispanic voeter block is up for grabs during any election. Offer up a legitimate solution to the immigration issue and that voter block can be wooed. Romney and the repubs had a chance to capitalize on this, and they failed to do so, again. I appreciate your effort to spin it another way though. Effort failed.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:26 pm
by Gil Dobie
There are more dead men than live men.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:44 pm
by JohnStOnge
What you fail to realize is businesses hiring illegal labor >>> voting Hispanics wrt voting. Business owners that hire illegal labor have a lot more money to throw around in the elections vs voting Hispanics. You lose...again. The Hispanic voeter block is up for grabs during any election. Offer up a legitimate solution to the immigration issue and that voter block can be wooed. Romney and the repubs had a chance to capitalize on this, and they failed to do so, again. I appreciate your effort to spin it another way though. Effort failed.
Business owners having more money to throw around in elections than voting Hispanics do has nothing to do with what I said. If the majority of voting Hispanics had their way, every Mexican who is in the United States illegally who does not have a criminal record beyond just being here illegally would be allowed to stay here. Furthermore, they are opposed to efforts to keep them from getting here to begin with.
What do you think a "legitimate solution" is? Is it rewarding a bunch of people who came into the United States illegally with citizenship?
The Hispanic vote is not up for grabs unless you throw integrity to the wind.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:17 am
by kalm
JohnStOnge wrote:What you fail to realize is businesses hiring illegal labor >>> voting Hispanics wrt voting. Business owners that hire illegal labor have a lot more money to throw around in the elections vs voting Hispanics. You lose...again. The Hispanic voeter block is up for grabs during any election. Offer up a legitimate solution to the immigration issue and that voter block can be wooed. Romney and the repubs had a chance to capitalize on this, and they failed to do so, again. I appreciate your effort to spin it another way though. Effort failed.
Business owners having more money to throw around in elections than voting Hispanics do has nothing to do with what I said. If the majority of voting Hispanics had their way, every Mexican who is in the United States illegally who does not have a criminal record beyond just being here illegally would be allowed to stay here. Furthermore, they are opposed to efforts to keep them from getting here to begin with.
What do you think a "legitimate solution" is? Is it rewarding a bunch of people who came into the United States illegally with citizenship?
The Hispanic vote is not up for grabs unless you throw integrity to the wind.
The solution is the same as it should be for the banksters. Go all Arpaio on the illegal employers asses. Round 'em up, send a few off to prison.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:14 am
by houndawg
JohnStOnge wrote:If he wins, which is likely, one factor will be that the Democrats have succeeded over many decades in creating a system in which a substantial majority of the people in the United States get more out of the system than they put into it. Democrats are seen as the champions of those net "takers." The overwhelming majority of such people consistently vote for them.
Another factor is racial demographics. Non Whites, I think, tend to think government is there to take care of them. They vote iin overwhelming majorities for Democrats. Also, we have a problem in that Hispanic citizens tend to want to facilitate illegal immigration. So if someone advocates doing the right thing on illegal immigration, as Republicans are more likely to do, Democrats gain with respect to the Hispanic vote as they most certainly DON'T want to do the right thing. Then there's the fact that Obama is just more telegenic. He looks and sounds better on TV.
So the country is in serious trouble. The guy will probably get elected again and so have the opportunity to do more damage under circumstances where he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected again.
Oh. Johnny. You poor child....speaking for Hispanics when you've never even met one... John, Hispanic
citizens are all about immigrating legally like they and theirs did. You really need to expand the circle of people you communicate with to include a non-white or two......
to your first statement that I bolded - There is a website called Stormfront that would love to have you and where you would feel much more at home.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:15 am
by houndawg
kalm wrote:JohnStOnge wrote:
Business owners having more money to throw around in elections than voting Hispanics do has nothing to do with what I said. If the majority of voting Hispanics had their way, every Mexican who is in the United States illegally who does not have a criminal record beyond just being here illegally would be allowed to stay here. Furthermore, they are opposed to efforts to keep them from getting here to begin with.
What do you think a "legitimate solution" is? Is it rewarding a bunch of people who came into the United States illegally with citizenship?
The Hispanic vote is not up for grabs unless you throw integrity to the wind.
The solution is the same as it should be for the banksters. Go all Arpaio on the illegal employers asses. Round 'em up, send a few off to prison.
They could solve the problem tomorrow if they really wanted to.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:47 am
by YoUDeeMan
houndawg wrote:
Oh. Johnny. You poor child....speaking for Hispanics when you've never even met one... John, Hispanic citizens are all about immigrating legally like they and theirs did. You really need to expand the circle of people you communicate with to include a non-white or two.....
Too funny!
houndawg must have met maybe two more Hispanics than John if what he says bears any semblance to reality...and now he's claiming to know how they all think.
Sorry pal, but the Hispanics in this area don't want their kin to immigrate "legally like they and theirs did".
Nope, they want them to be legal....but not the way that they and theirs did (well, some of them, anyway). Amnesty is a huge issue here in mushroom land...and most Hispanics here are for amnesty for those who are already here. And, they want to make it easier for Hispanics to immigrate here legally.
So, no...they aren't all about immigrating legally
like they and theirs did. They are about legal immigration...but that is not the same thing as what hopedawg noted.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:03 pm
by houndawg
Cluck U wrote:houndawg wrote:
Oh. Johnny. You poor child....speaking for Hispanics when you've never even met one... John, Hispanic citizens are all about immigrating legally like they and theirs did. You really need to expand the circle of people you communicate with to include a non-white or two.....
Too funny!
houndawg must have met maybe two more Hispanics than John if what he says bears any semblance to reality...and now he's claiming to know how they all think.
Sorry pal, but the Hispanics in this area don't want their kin to immigrate "legally like they and theirs did".
Nope, they want them to be legal....but not the way that they and theirs did (well, some of them, anyway). Amnesty is a huge issue here in mushroom land...and most Hispanics here are for amnesty for those who are already here. And, they want to make it easier for Hispanics to immigrate here legally.
So, no...they aren't all about immigrating legally
like they and theirs did. They are about legal immigration...but that is not the same thing as what hopedawg noted.
You need to read a little closer, Cuck, the group in question is Hispanic
citizens.
Poor thing. Must be dealing with that not-so-fresh feeling again.
Now go back and try again, this time remember we're talking about Hispanic
citizens.
smfh
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:01 pm
by 89Hen
houndawg wrote:Cluck U wrote:
Too funny!
houndawg must have met maybe two more Hispanics than John if what he says bears any semblance to reality...and now he's claiming to know how they all think.
Sorry pal, but the Hispanics in this area don't want their kin to immigrate "legally like they and theirs did".
Nope, they want them to be legal....but not the way that they and theirs did (well, some of them, anyway). Amnesty is a huge issue here in mushroom land...and most Hispanics here are for amnesty for those who are already here. And, they want to make it easier for Hispanics to immigrate here legally.
So, no...they aren't all about immigrating legally
like they and theirs did. They are about legal immigration...but that is not the same thing as what hopedawg noted.
You need to read a little closer, Cuck, the group in question is Hispanic
citizens.
Poor thing. Must be dealing with that not-so-fresh feeling again.
Now go back and try again, this time remember we're talking about Hispanic
citizens.
smfh
Ummmm, yeah. Dawg, YOU might want to go back and read the reply a little more closely.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:59 pm
by BlueHen86
If Romney loses it will be because:
A) - The economy turns around and Obama gets credit for it. Very unlikely.
or
B) - Obama comes across as more likable than Romney. There are a lot of people who are going to vote for the guy they like best, regardless of issues, party or debates.
Romney wins if:
A) - The economy gets worse
B) - He convinces people that he can fix the economy. Not going to be easy, but Ryan as VP may help here.
or
C) - He does a better job than Obama at connecting with people over the next three months.
Re: Preemptive Strike: Why Romney Lost
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:29 pm
by houndawg
BlueHen86 wrote:If Romney loses it will be because:
A) - The economy turns around and Obama gets credit for it. Very unlikely.
or
B) - Obama comes across as more likable than Romney. There are a lot of people who are going to vote for the guy they like best, regardless of issues, party or debates.
Romney wins if:
A) - The economy gets worse
B) - He convinces people that he can fix the economy. Not going to be easy, but Ryan as VP may help here.
or
C) - He does a better job than Obama at connecting with people over the next three months.
I don't think its clear that Ryan helps on the economy yet. Right now there is the usual VP bounce, and that isn't permanent. Old folks could be Mutt's downfall.
